Why can’t we mock him for both?
I have large thighs and sitting in high stool style chairs has always been fairly uncomfortable for me. I’d probably want to walk or wander around instead of being perched there or flatfooted, but then Mrs. Zoe and Mrs. Rigby would yell at me… and I’d cry.
Like the late Earl Warren?
I really see those more as making fun of him than attacking him.
Frank, I understand what you are saying, but, since McCain’s injuries are longstanding, I don’t get why he/team McCain hasn’t figured the means to adapt any disability to the situation. Simple: no tall chairs as a prerequisite, check.
His wandering was an issue…at the point when Obama was answering a healthcare question, and McCain wandered way out into center stage, I was baffled. Why would ya do that? I don’t think he was addled, but inappropriate in trying to command the stage that way. It looked rather stupid, or brash, or, well, basically inappropriate, whatever the reason.
What’s the difference?
OK, jeepers, I give. I sure wish that we don’t run the government the way the Rovians did, but this thread gives me little hope.
Okay, I guess you have no answer for my questions, and have belatedly decided that the question isn’t worth discussing (despite your having posted several times to the thread). That’s fine, but I think it’s silly to act outraged as if everyone here’s making a huuuuge deal out of this and is so distracted with WanderGate ™ that no one’s paying attention to the Real Issues, i.e. McCain’s beliefs. The OP just asked a question about something s/he noticed. There are plenty of other topics of far more substance to offset the feather-light nature of this one; how could you have missed the kabillion other threads in GD and the Pit excoriating McCain over the past year or so for his economic plans, his foreign and domestic policies, his voting with Bush, his horrific campaign decisions?
I appreciate that your own injury may make this seem personal, but it really isn’t. The OP was curious and didn’t know what the deal was with McCain’s seemingly jittery behavior, or perhaps had an idea but was wondering what others thought. You opined that it’s some physical ailment, fine. Some agree, still others disagree. As yet there’s no proof that McCain suffers from a leg/back injury, so why get in such a huff over it?
Well, how many times do you expect me to attempt to make my point before I get tired of running into a brick wall?
I’m not getting paid for this, you know.
Please Frank… it’s for the kids.
Heh. Well, fair enough, but I don’t believe the questions I asked in particular had been addressed by those who believe McCain’s physical issues were the reason for the wandering. Specifically:
-
What exactly are his physical problems that could require such movement? Not just “he’s old” or “he was tortured,” because neither are necessarily related.
-
If you think the pacing/wandering/whatevs was indeed due to physical issues, why was he able to stand perfectly normally for a couple of hours just two weeks ago? Indeed, if he had some disability that required him to move so often, I’d think the first debate would’ve been even worse for him, since in that format, he couldn’t break things up by walking over to the audience.
Honestly I don’t think it’s a big deal, and as you say, it didn’t seem to matter to the audience as far as deciding ‘who won’ – although perhaps subconsciously some of 'em were turned off by McCain’s behavior, either 'cause it made him seem erratic, or old, or disrespectful of Obama in apparently not paying attention to his opponent’s responses.
But the OP asked the question, and some of us think it’s an interesting, albeit not earthshattering, curiosity.
I had not thought much one way or the other about that particular moment of McCain’s wandering. I refocused on what Obama was saying. I did notice that both McCain and Obama moved around and I assumed that it was because of the shape of the seating area. I don’t recall Obama moving behind McCain while he was speaking.
Should McCain be allowed to violate the agreement because of his special circumstances?
astro, have you finished your essay on contrasting and comparing verbals and gerbils? Make it work!
Well, it hasn’t been established that he has “special circumstances” that would require such a violation. But if he does, then I think yes, he should. I certainly wouldn’t care if he broke a fairly meaningless rule in order to avoid pain or severe discomfort. I would hope that he could move about in a more unobtrusive manner, though, unless we were talking Parkinson’s here.
That said, it also would have been poor judgment not to negotiate for whatever special needs he has in the agreement. (Further, he should be more upfront generally about his physical condition. But that goes without saying; same goes for all the candidates)
Suppose it turns out that there’s a physical reason that McCain was so uncomfortable in the stool that he couldn’t sit in it for an hour and a half. Or that he couldn’t get in and out of it easily.
Suppose further that even standing quietly was physically painful for him, and walking around alleviated his discomfort.
Are we allowed to ask why he couldn’t do his standing and walking when it was his turn to speak, when it would be appropriate (and appear natural) for him to stand and walk?
Are we allowd to ask why he didn’t stand quietly and attentively during the times when Obama was speaking?
And are we allowed to ask why he was walking between Obama and the camera when Obama was speaking?
McCain wandering around is weird and vaguely amusing(and baffling) but doesn’t really affect my opinion on him. Kinda like Grandpa rambling on about that time he had an onion on his belt, which was the style at the time… I’ll make fun of him for it, but in a good natured way.
A lot of other things he’s done has actively lost my respect and I feel no qualms about attacking him for it.
Were you always prone to such huge leaps in logic?
We don’t know why McCain chose to act as a distraction. We don’t know if it was deliberate on his part or if he truly has some type of disability that requires him to move about aimlessly while an opponent speaks, or if he is fast approaching senility and showing it in this type of behavior.
Shouldn’t we know about that disability, if any, if we are to elect this man? If the unwashed masses aren’t allowed to know, surely his staff and the foreign heads of state should be clued in, no?
Shouldn’t we know if he is showing signs of senility? They kept Reagan’s a “secret” for a few years, but he was already in office. Do we want to elect someone who suddenly cannot sit still?
If he was doing it deliberately, he needs to be called on it. It was disrespectful of a colleague. I find his statements re respecting Obama suspect given his debate behavior. Respectful is as respectful does.
How much of your argument will be found hollow when he manages to sit for the next debate? If he gets up and paces around in that debate, I’m more willing to agree that there is something physical going on OR that he is experiencing severe psychological pressure and needs an outlet. Such a person I do not want as President.
I truly don’t see Rovian tactics here at all. I see a man who was once vital and fit, doddering about, looking lost. It’s sad. It’s a shame. I don’t enjoy kicking someone when they’re down. But he is up for the most powerful position in the world–he needs to be able to meet that challenge.
FDR is completely different. His paralysis was hidden because of the times he lived in. If McCain came out and said, “I have restless leg syndrome and stress makes it worse”, I’d be fine with it. But no such admission has been forthcoming. No explanation as to why his staff did not advocate for better seating arrangements. That does reflect poorly on McCain.
I thought everyone knew about how he was hung by his arms behind his back as a POW and that he can’t lift his arms over his head. I have no doubt that his torture wasn’t limited to his arms over a five year period and that old injuries to broken bones and joints can cause a lot of pain in later years. So I really don’t know how many injuries he suffers from because of his service to his country and the torture.
However, tonight on MSNBC (Hardball), Tom Brokaw did say that McCain was restless earlier in the evening before things got started. So I take it that it had nothing to do with the seating itself.
yep, i also saw the hardball brokaw interview. mr. brokaw stated that mccain has more nervous energy/restlessness, obama was calm and cool. his statement fits both men’s personality profile.
some people think better moving, some think better quiet. just who they are.
I thought it profoundly odd. It was just bizarre. I can’t imagine a situation where someone clearly has the floor, and you are ok to wander around.
Except of course, if you are holding a crying baby, then well, any port in a storm.
He did look uncomfortable, but the respectful (imho) thing to do is stand still. Otherwise, it looks like grand standing.