# In the Star Trek universe, do you think abortions are legal? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [November 6, 2012, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-the-star-trek-universe-do-you-think-abortions-are-legal/640089 "2012-11-06T15:42:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Grumman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/43a26b/32.png) [@Grumman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grumman)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2012, 12:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-the-star-trek-universe-do-you-think-abortions-are-legal/640089/21 "2012-11-07T12:35:13Z")
Abortion? Riker murdered _an adult_ just for having the misfortune of being created from his DNA. ---
**Author:** ![Ranchoth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ranchoth/32/1066_2.png) [@Ranchoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ranchoth)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2012, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-the-star-trek-universe-do-you-think-abortions-are-legal/640089/22 "2012-11-07T16:57:44Z")
I’d guess legal, if rarer—if only for the reason that contraception is easier and more effective. Plus, with all the inter-species relationships, natural biological barriers with _unaided_ conception might be another significant safeguard—though honestly, with the amount of social engineering/indoctrination that goes on in the Federation (even outside TNG seasons 1-2), they would probably justify _any_ legal or ethical position on the matter that suited them. ---
**Author:** ![njtt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ecd19e/32.png) [@njtt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/njtt)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2012, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-the-star-trek-universe-do-you-think-abortions-are-legal/640089/23 "2012-11-07T17:41:27Z")
Yes, but rarely necessary. ---
**Author:** ![Hail\_Ants](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/dc4da7/32.png) [@Hail\_Ants](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hail_Ants)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2012, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-the-star-trek-universe-do-you-think-abortions-are-legal/640089/24 "2012-11-07T22:52:49Z")
> [@KneadToKnow](#): > > [Abortion can be inferred to be legal](http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Abortion) in the Trek universe, at least in the Federation. > > Gene was quite liberal; it would frankly have astonished me to find any evidence at all to the contrary. Although he was very socially liberal (and an atheist) he was also a patriot and a stern anti-communist. But I think his progressive views on reproductive rights were apparent in (amongst other places) the (rather bad) episode [_ **The Mark of Gideon** _](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Mark_of_Gideon)… ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2012, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-the-star-trek-universe-do-you-think-abortions-are-legal/640089/25 "2012-11-07T23:44:29Z")
Actually, I rather like _The Mark of Gideon_, what do you find so bad about it? ---
**Author:** ![Grumman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/43a26b/32.png) [@Grumman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grumman)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2012, 1:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-the-star-trek-universe-do-you-think-abortions-are-legal/640089/26 "2012-11-08T01:16:58Z")
> [@Peter\_Morris](#): > > Actually, I rather like _The Mark of Gideon_, what do you find so bad about it? That the main cast eventually sides with a plan to simply _cull_ innocent people with biological weapons? ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2012, 1:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-the-star-trek-universe-do-you-think-abortions-are-legal/640089/27 "2012-11-08T01:31:40Z")
No, they don’t. Kirk was tricked into giving up the virus, he doesn’t give it voluntarily. Also, the Gideon’s plan is to call for volunteers who will agree to tyake the virus, they aren’t going to force it on anyone. Also, the plan was for Odona to martyr herself, as an example to the others, but Doc McCoy spoils that. Also, Prime Directive, they don’t have the right to interfere with what another planet decides to do. They are bending the rules as it is. ---
**Author:** ![Hail\_Ants](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/dc4da7/32.png) [@Hail\_Ants](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hail_Ants)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2012, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-the-star-trek-universe-do-you-think-abortions-are-legal/640089/28 "2012-11-08T19:37:13Z")
> [@Peter\_Morris](#): > > Actually, I rather like _The Mark of Gideon_, what do you find so bad about it? I found the whole ‘they built an entire fake Enterprise’ plot device to be ridiculously unnecessary. I mean, I thought it was a neat plot device, Kirk wandering around alone, finding the mysterious (and hot) chick, them hearing the strange noise coming from outside, the reveal of the faces behind the viewscreen, these were all genuinely effective and downright creepy elements. But they were all ultimately wasted when you found out it was all just an elaborate (and pointless) hoax for some silly political intrigue. What was the point? They should have just invited Kirk down, drugged him, extracted the virus, and pretended nothing happened. Plus the whole _‘they didn’t notice one entirely wrong digit in the transporter coordinates’_ was too much for me to swallow, even when I was a kid (can still remember it, 875 020 709!) One thing I did like was the slow burn between Spock and the obnoxiously smug Gideon President. As reserved & cool as he maintained, in the end you could start to tell Spock so wanted to lay some Vulcan Death-Grip on his ass! ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2012, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-the-star-trek-universe-do-you-think-abortions-are-legal/640089/29 "2012-11-08T20:17:10Z")
Ah, but the thing is, they didn’t build an entire fake Enterprise. It’s some sort of illusion, created on the fly, something like a holodeck. This is demonstrated by the scene where Kirk looks out of a window and sees a crowd of people, which then shimmers and is replaced by a view of space. Once you realize that, it isn’t such an elaborate hoax. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2012, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-the-star-trek-universe-do-you-think-abortions-are-legal/640089/30 "2012-11-08T20:24:31Z")
> [@Hail\_Ants](#): > > Iin the end you could start to tell Spock so wanted to lay some Vulcan Death-Grip on his ass! :dubious: There is no Vulcan Death Grip. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2012, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-the-star-trek-universe-do-you-think-abortions-are-legal/640089/31 "2012-11-08T20:24:34Z")
Why would abortions be needed in Star Trek? Reversible vasectomies would be common place. No pain either. Trek doctors can open and close a scar free incision in seconds. I can easily see every male turning off his sperm with a Reversible vasectomy at sexual maturity. Maybe age 15? Reverse it when he marries and wants kids. Then apply the vasectomy again after you’re done making kids. No more unplanned pregnancies. ---
**Author:** ![Hail\_Ants](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/dc4da7/32.png) [@Hail\_Ants](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hail_Ants)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2012, 3:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-the-star-trek-universe-do-you-think-abortions-are-legal/640089/32 "2012-11-09T03:34:13Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > :dubious: There is no Vulcan Death Grip. Yeah I know, but it just sounds so damn cool! I just re-watched TMoG on Netflix. I guess it’s not really a bad episode, especially considering it’s a third season one. Hell, considering it was made for a 1968 scifi TV show it’s pretty darn good. I can see with I hated it as a kid though. Besides the problems I already mentioned, the whole episode is too cerebral, there’s not any action in it at all. ---
**Author:** ![Lynn\_Bodoni](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e47c2d/32.png) [@Lynn\_Bodoni](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lynn_Bodoni)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2012, 5:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-the-star-trek-universe-do-you-think-abortions-are-legal/640089/33 "2012-11-09T05:43:05Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > Why would abortions be needed in Star Trek? > > Reversible vasectomies would be common place. No pain either. Trek doctors can open and close a scar free incision in seconds. > > I can easily see every male turning off his sperm with a Reversible vasectomy at sexual maturity. Maybe age 15? Reverse it when he marries and wants kids. Then apply the vasectomy again after you’re done making kids. > > No more unplanned pregnancies. Logically, there should be no need for abortions in the ST universe, unless the woman is exposed to something which will affect the fetus and which can’t be fixed. With the medical level in ST, this should be so uncommon as to be just about unknown. However, there might be a STORY which needs someone to struggle with an abortion decision. In which case, there will be a problem pregnancy every time. ---
**Author:** ![ekedolphin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ekedolphin/32/10003_2.png) [@ekedolphin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ekedolphin)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2012, 1:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-the-star-trek-universe-do-you-think-abortions-are-legal/640089/34 "2012-11-09T13:01:46Z")
In the novelization of _Star Trek III_ (in which David and Saavik hook up while still on the _Enterprise)_, it’s said that by the 23rd century, several races including humans and Vulcans have the ability to master “biocontrol”, regulating the reproductive function. (Incidentally, the novelizations of II-VI are all excellent and I recommend them. Haven’t read TMP’s in a long time.) ---
**Author:** ![Agent\_Foxtrot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9fc29f/32.png) [@Agent\_Foxtrot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Agent_Foxtrot)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2012, 1:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-the-star-trek-universe-do-you-think-abortions-are-legal/640089/35 "2012-11-09T13:43:44Z")
> [@Simplicio](#): > > You’d think contraception would be 100% effective in the future, but we see at least one unintended pregnancy in DS9 (normal pregnancy that is, there probably a dozen pregnancies over the course of the show due to bizarre sci-fi hijinks). I came in to say something like this. Abortions are legal, but they’re rarely performed. Contraception is 100% effective and permanent until the moment someone decides to have it removed from their body. ---
**Author:** ![Darth\_Panda](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ee7513/32.png) [@Darth\_Panda](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darth_Panda)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2012, 1:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-the-star-trek-universe-do-you-think-abortions-are-legal/640089/36 "2012-11-09T13:52:46Z")
> [@Grumman](#): > > Abortion? Riker murdered _an adult_ just for having the misfortune of being created from his DNA. The controversial 111th trimester abortion. ---
**Author:** ![matt\_mcl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ab992/32.png) [@matt\_mcl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/matt_mcl)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2012, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-the-star-trek-universe-do-you-think-abortions-are-legal/640089/37 "2012-11-09T14:20:03Z")
> [@Grumman](#): > > Abortion? Riker murdered _an adult_ just for having the misfortune of being created from his DNA. Well, that’s a little harsh. He destroyed clones (of himself and Pulaski) that had not yet fully developed. ---
**Author:** ![Clark\_Cello](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/58f4c7/32.png) [@Clark\_Cello](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clark_Cello)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2012, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-the-star-trek-universe-do-you-think-abortions-are-legal/640089/38 "2012-11-09T16:24:26Z")
> [@ekedolphin](#): > > In the novelization of _Star Trek III_ (in which David and Saavik hook up while still on the _Enterprise)_, it’s said that by the 23rd century, several races including humans and Vulcans have the ability to master “biocontrol”, regulating the reproductive function. > > (Incidentally, the novelizations of II-VI are all excellent and I recommend them. Haven’t read TMP’s in a long time.) See, Todd Akin was just confused because he is a Trekkie. ---
**Author:** ![KneadToKnow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kneadtoknow/32/3999_2.png) [@KneadToKnow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KneadToKnow)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2012, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-the-star-trek-universe-do-you-think-abortions-are-legal/640089/39 "2012-11-09T16:36:30Z")
> [@Clark\_Cello](#): > > See, Todd Akin was just confused because he is a Trekkie. You take that back right now. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2012, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-the-star-trek-universe-do-you-think-abortions-are-legal/640089/40 "2012-11-09T21:22:02Z")
Wait, I thought the Trekkie conservative misogynist was Jack Ryan. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-the-star-trek-universe-do-you-think-abortions-are-legal/640089.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-the-star-trek-universe-do-you-think-abortions-are-legal/640089.md?page=3)