# In the US, what are the powers of a county over the cities in it? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [August 16, 2023, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-the-us-what-are-the-powers-of-a-county-over-the-cities-in-it/988677 "2023-08-16T20:14:43Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![md-2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9d8465/32.png) [@md-2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md-2000)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2023, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-the-us-what-are-the-powers-of-a-county-over-the-cities-in-it/988677/21 "2023-08-17T18:02:14Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > The U.S. is very proud of this madness. But it complicates results immensely, because no totals can be released before each vote is properly counted and assigned to its separate election. When I was growing up in Canada, the joke was that in the USA they even elect the dogcatcher. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2023, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-the-us-what-are-the-powers-of-a-county-over-the-cities-in-it/988677/22 "2023-08-17T18:12:37Z")
> [@md-2000](#): > > When I was growing up in Canada, the joke was that in the USA they even elect the dogcatcher A common phrase here is “They couldn’t be elected dogcatcher”, meaning they couldn’t win a vote for the least important public position. Dogcatchers would be Animal Control officers who usually aren’t, and maybe never are actually elected anywhere. ---
**Author:** ![suranyi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e36b37/32.png) [@suranyi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/suranyi)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2023, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-the-us-what-are-the-powers-of-a-county-over-the-cities-in-it/988677/23 "2023-08-17T18:55:40Z")
> [@jjakucyk](#): > > St. Louis is a unique (or nearly unique?) situation in the US since it’s an independent city, meaning it is not part of any county. Across the entire USA, this situation is indeed rare. But in the one state of Virginia, it’s common. Virginia has 38 cities that are independent of any county. ---
**Author:** ![Mighty\_Mouse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mighty_mouse/32/7776_2.png) [@Mighty\_Mouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mighty_Mouse)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2023, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-the-us-what-are-the-powers-of-a-county-over-the-cities-in-it/988677/24 "2023-08-17T19:18:33Z")
> [@Schnitte](#): > > However, I suppose/hope there are some common features of American local government that might allow for a more general answer. I imagine the only real factual answer is that this supposition/hope was not justified. Basically there are at least 50 different ways of delegating the General Police Power and taxation power of the states is delegated to counties, cities, towns, villages and other subdivisions. ---
**Author:** ![Hypno-Toad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b2d939/32.png) [@Hypno-Toad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hypno-Toad)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2023, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-the-us-what-are-the-powers-of-a-county-over-the-cities-in-it/988677/25 "2023-08-17T20:53:51Z")
In my county in FL, the incorporated cities are largely autonomous with their own zoning, planning, utilities, and other functions. Small incorporated locations will contract with the county sheriff for law enforcement. One thing my county kept control of is taxation. Even in the cities, the county collects the taxes. They add the city-levied taxes to city residents and had that part over to the relevant city government. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2023, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-the-us-what-are-the-powers-of-a-county-over-the-cities-in-it/988677/26 "2023-08-17T21:04:29Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > …Ohio also has school districts, whose borders are often but not always identical to city boundaries, but even if the boundaries are identical, they’re completely independent of the cities (so, for instance, there’s no point in complaining to the mayor about the schools). Another Ohioan here. I agree with much of what **Chronos** and **ZipperJJ** have written about counties in the state, although in Cleveland, the mayor appoints the school board, so you _could_ complain to him about the schools. The board used to be elected but that changed 20-some years ago IIRC. See: [https://mayor.clevelandohio.gov/news/mayor-bibb-announces-appointments-cleveland-metropolitan-school-district-board-education#:~:text=Sara%20Elaqad%2C%20Leah%20D.,terms%20of%20service%20next%20week](https://mayor.clevelandohio.gov/news/mayor-bibb-announces-appointments-cleveland-metropolitan-school-district-board-education#:~:text=Sara%20Elaqad%2C%20Leah%20D.,terms%20of%20service%20next%20week). Ohio counties also have their own jails, distinct from those of the cities, towns and villages within them. I’ve never heard of an Ohio county bossing around a city, but ordinances passed by a county do apply to any cities etc. within it, unless specifically exempted. Cuyahoga County, which includes Cleveland, has an anti-discrimination law which is broader than those of some of the 59 municipalities within it, for instance. ---
**Author:** ![glowacks](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/glowacks/32/5548_2.png) [@glowacks](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/glowacks)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2023, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-the-us-what-are-the-powers-of-a-county-over-the-cities-in-it/988677/27 "2023-08-17T21:19:18Z")
I don’t really know what the delegation of functions are between the counties and cities in Michigan. But there are things I can tell from my long history of looking at people’s property tax bills they provide when getting their income taxes done. Michigan has cities, villages, and townships as municipal-level divisions. Cities are incorporated and can’t have their land incorporated by another city. Cities can span more than one county. Northville near Detroit is the obvious example, but there are others. Cities collect all the property tax on properties within their limits, but forward some of the collections to other jurisdictions such as school districts, the county, maybe other special districts that are part of the city. If you are delinquent in your taxes though, you have to pay them through the county, not the city. All the land in the counties near where I live is part of a city or a township. Townships are mostly 6 mile by 6 mile squares with the land of any incorporated cities removed. I have no clue what they do, but they also collect any of the taxes in their borders with the exception I’ll get to next. Some townships in Michigan are “Charter Townships” which means something in terms of being like a city but not really, and I don’t really know or care about the details. Villages are unincorporated communities that exist within townships, or within multiple adjacent townships, that collect their own local taxes in addition to the township. In Michigan different sets of property taxes are due in September and February (sometimes roughly half each, sometimes not - it’s like 90/10 where I live), and any land within a village has a third set of property taxes due to the village which are solely village-level taxes. As mentioned, it’s possible for a village to be within two different townships, which means your neighbor across the street that serves as the township border pays taxes to a different township than you. Can a village be in two separate counties? I’m not sure; I guess it’s possible. What do they all do? I don’t know and I don’t care. But that’s what I can glean from property tax bills. ---
**Author:** ![Railer13](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/railer13/32/9742_2.png) [@Railer13](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Railer13)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2023, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-the-us-what-are-the-powers-of-a-county-over-the-cities-in-it/988677/28 "2023-08-17T21:27:14Z")
In rural Kansas where I grew up, townships are also 6 miles by 6 miles. They are responsible for the roads and bridges in that area, unless the road is maintained by the county, state, or federal government. The township is used to be responsible for providing a place to vote in all elections, but this probably is no longer the case. Our township owned a road grader/maintainer and a small bulldozer. I think there were 2 or 3 guys who ran and maintained that equipment, billing the township for their time and fuel. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2023, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-the-us-what-are-the-powers-of-a-county-over-the-cities-in-it/988677/29 "2023-08-17T22:09:34Z")
Just a note. New York’s counties (outside NYC) are divided into towns. Other states in the northeast call them townships. Small municipalities are villages rather than towns. In Pennsylvania these are called boroughs. Town is often used in casual English for any small municipality, but only a few states have that type of town as a legal definition. For example, a Wyoming town has fewer than 4000 people, a Washington town has fewer than 1500, and a Utah town has fewer than 1000. If they grow they will be elevated to cities. Texas legally has nothing but cities and North Carolina has nothing but municipalities, which can called themselves city, towns, or villages as they see fit. I wonder how many Americans know the answers for all 50 states. Probably only a town-sized number. ---
**Author:** ![thorny\_locust](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thorny_locust/32/431_2.png) [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2023, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-the-us-what-are-the-powers-of-a-county-over-the-cities-in-it/988677/30 "2023-08-17T22:17:44Z")
> [@Railer13](#): > > In rural Kansas where I grew up, townships are also 6 miles by 6 miles. Towns in NY often have weird irregular boundaries. This probably has to do partly with the terrain and partly with the history. For a while in the 1800’s they were carving towns out of larger towns based at least partly on the desires of the residents; but it also wouldn’t make any sense to have an even 6 by 6 mile square if that landed part of it on each side of, say, one of the Finger Lakes. > [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > I wonder how many Americans know the answers for all 50 states. Probably only a town-sized number. And probably a fairly small town at that! ---
**Author:** ![whitetho](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whitetho/32/1059_2.png) [@whitetho](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/whitetho)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2023, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-the-us-what-are-the-powers-of-a-county-over-the-cities-in-it/988677/31 "2023-08-17T22:51:57Z")
> [@suranyi](#): > > Virginia has 38 cities that are independent of any county. Virginia also has Arlington County, which is unitary, and has no incorporated sections. ---
**Author:** ![glowacks](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/glowacks/32/5548_2.png) [@glowacks](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/glowacks)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2023, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-the-us-what-are-the-powers-of-a-county-over-the-cities-in-it/988677/32 "2023-08-17T23:00:07Z")
> [@thorny\_locust](#): > > Towns in NY often have weird irregular boundaries. This probably has to do partly with the terrain and partly with the history. It’s mostly history. NY was surveyed mostly as a colony, before the Northwest Ordinance and the system of surveying that land to most of the Midwest to be laid out in 6 by 6 townships. In Michigan with all the water borders, there’s tons of townships that aren’t the full 36 sq miles. But there’s only one interior county line that follows a line of water rather than the 6 by 6 township grid map. Every other border is perfectly straight after accounting for surveying errors and curvature of the Earth. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2023, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-the-us-what-are-the-powers-of-a-county-over-the-cities-in-it/988677/33 "2023-08-18T00:06:54Z")
MA has 14 counties, only 6 of which still have governments. There other 8 had their governments abolished and powers subsumed by state agencies between 1997 and 2000. The counties remain as geographic and legal entities, but some of them do nothing. ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Feldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lord_feldon/32/341_2.png) [@Lord\_Feldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Feldon)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2023, 1:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-the-us-what-are-the-powers-of-a-county-over-the-cities-in-it/988677/34 "2023-08-18T01:32:44Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > I’ve never heard of an Ohio county bossing around a city, but ordinances passed by a county do apply to any cities etc. within it, unless specifically exempted. Cuyahoga County, which includes Cleveland, has an anti-discrimination law which is broader than those of some of the 59 municipalities within it, for instance. I think that’s only possible in a county that adopts a charter, and only two have done that. ---
**Author:** ![thelurkinghorror](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7c8e57/32.png) [@thelurkinghorror](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thelurkinghorror)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2023, 4:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-the-us-what-are-the-powers-of-a-county-over-the-cities-in-it/988677/35 "2023-08-18T04:23:24Z")
> [@jjakucyk](#): > > St. Louis is a unique (or nearly unique?) situation in the US since it’s an independent city, meaning it is not part of any county. But it operates as both a city and a county. St. Louis is the only city in Missouri which operates its own “county” offices. St. Louis is a home rule city, but it is not a home rule county, thus county functions and offices are subject to state restrictions on county governments. There have been some other city/county mergers with different parameters, such as Indianapolis and Louisville, but those too are outliers. Not quite, there are 41 independent cities. They are: 1. St. Louis, MO 2. Carson City, NV 3. Baltimore, MD 4.-41. Every incorporated city in Virginia. This means the city is an independent entity that sort of serves as a county, but there is no county around them, nor is there a county that the exact same territory. There is a Baltimore county, it’s just completely separate. Indianapolis and Louisville are city-counties, both entities exist separately but in the same territory. I can speak more to the city-county of San Francisco, they for example still retain a sheriff’s office whose main duties are to run the jails and provide courtroom law enforcement, the beat cops are SFPD. ---
**Author:** ![KCB615](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ea666f/32.png) [@KCB615](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KCB615)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2023, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-the-us-what-are-the-powers-of-a-county-over-the-cities-in-it/988677/36 "2023-08-18T19:34:57Z")
> [@Telemark](#): > > MA has 14 counties, only 6 of which still have governments. There other 8 had their governments abolished and powers subsumed by state agencies between 1997 and 2000. The counties remain as geographic and legal entities, but some of them do nothing. And to even say that the six remaining counties have a “government” is a bit of a misnomer. The counties essentially only provide a sheriff (who only maintains county jails and transports prisoners, they don’t have a law enforcement function), regristries of deeds, some public safety dispatching, and some regional planning. Most of the functions that other counties outside of New England provide are provided at either the municipal or state level in Massachusetts. There are no unincorporated areas of Massachusetts (or Connecticut or Rhode Island), everywhere in the state is either a city or a town. Counties are redundant. ---
**Author:** ![thorny\_locust](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thorny_locust/32/431_2.png) [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2023, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-the-us-what-are-the-powers-of-a-county-over-the-cities-in-it/988677/37 "2023-08-18T21:28:54Z")
Everywhere in New York State is either in a city or a town – but the towns aren’t considered incorporated; villages and cities are incorporated. (Though the towns are municipalities.) And we have counties, which have duties and abilities which the towns which compose them don’t, and vice versa. Everybody does it differently! – I wonder whether anybody’s ever done a study to try to find out in what ways different state’s techniques work well and work poorly? ---
**Author:** ![nightshadea](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/7ba0ec/32.png) [@nightshadea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nightshadea)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2023, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-the-us-what-are-the-powers-of-a-county-over-the-cities-in-it/988677/38 "2023-08-18T21:40:25Z")
here is the mess that is los angeles county… > **[Los Angeles County, California](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Los_Angeles_County,_California)** > > Los Angeles County, officially the County of Los Angeles (Spanish: Condado de Los Ángeles), and sometimes abbreviated as L.A. County, is the most populous county in the United States, with 9,861,224 residents estimated in 2022. Its population is greater than that of 40 individual U.S. states. Comprising 88 incorporated cities and many unincorporated areas within a total area of 4,083 square miles (10,570 km2), it is home to more than a quarter of Californians and is one of the most ethnica Los... As someone who is very dependent on services provided by them I keep tabs on this stuff [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-the-us-what-are-the-powers-of-a-county-over-the-cities-in-it/988677.md?page=1)