# In the US, what determines my gender for legal purposes? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [October 14, 2010, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-the-us-what-determines-my-gender-for-legal-purposes/557130 "2010-10-14T14:26:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 9\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2010, 1:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-the-us-what-determines-my-gender-for-legal-purposes/557130/21 "2010-10-16T01:15:05Z")
> [@filling\_pages](#): > > > [@DrDeth](#): > > > > Most states do have a domestic partner law. > > Now, [this is from wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Domestic_partnership_in_the_United_States), so it could be a lie, but I’m only seeing 11 states that have domestic partnership laws. Looks about right, there are some others which have something similar, but it does appear to be less than “most”.:smack: ---
**Author:** ![usedtobe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ec9cab/32.png) [@usedtobe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/usedtobe)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2010, 3:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-the-us-what-determines-my-gender-for-legal-purposes/557130/22 "2010-10-16T03:19:17Z")
I will say it one last time “gender” does NOT mean “sex” If DOS has caved, there is little hope left. Years ago, the little box was labeled “sex”, any you were supposed to write in a F or a M. Male twits got clever (“yes”, “when possible”, etc) The forms were changed to “gender”. We now have 2 generations who don’t know the difference. Pathetic What if a US-certified transsexual moves somewhere more backward which still uses chromosome structure? Born XY =\> (male) Snip/medical certification =\> Female Chromosome test (XY) =\> Male Could this happen? Has a transsexual ever been so challenged? ---
**Author:** ![DocCathode](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doccathode/32/18773_2.png) [@DocCathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocCathode)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2010, 3:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-the-us-what-determines-my-gender-for-legal-purposes/557130/23 "2010-10-16T03:29:58Z")
> [@usedtobe](#): > > What if a US-certified transsexual moves somewhere more backward which still uses chromosome structure? > > Born XY =\> (male) > Snip/medical certification =\> Female > Chromosome test (XY) =\> Male > > Could this happen? Has a transsexual ever been so challenged? Again, this happens when a transsexual moves from certain states to certain other states within the US. ---
**Author:** ![BleizDu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/9dc877/32.png) [@BleizDu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BleizDu)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2010, 9:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-the-us-what-determines-my-gender-for-legal-purposes/557130/24 "2010-10-17T09:02:58Z")
> [@usedtobe](#): > > What if a US-certified transsexual moves somewhere more backward which still uses chromosome structure? > > Born XY =\> (male) > Snip/medical certification =\> Female > Chromosome test (XY) =\> Male > > Could this happen? Has a transsexual ever been so challenged? Well, in France some years ago a trans woman with changed papers tried to get married with a trans woman who was still legally male. It didn’t work. > **[Monica León (1975 - ) sex worker, transactivist.](https://zagria.blogspot.com/2008/11/monica-len-1975-sex-worker.html)** > > Benito Martin León grew up in Salta , in the northwest of Argentina. He was sexually abused by his father’s friend at age 4, and was sexuall... > [@](#): > > In 2005 there was a media circus when Monica and Camille Barré, a post-operative trans woman, proposed to marry. This was Monica’s first affair with a woman. They were denounced by the French state for “trying to make society evolve by catching it in the traps of its own logic”. ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2010, 12:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-the-us-what-determines-my-gender-for-legal-purposes/557130/25 "2010-10-17T12:13:28Z")
> [@BleizDu](#): > > They were denounced by the French state for “trying to make society evolve by catching it in the traps of its own logic”. Lol! That’s the oddest “denouncement” I’ve ever seen. It practically admits it has no basis even as it articulates that untenable basis! ---
**Author:** ![BleizDu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/9dc877/32.png) [@BleizDu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BleizDu)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2010, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-the-us-what-determines-my-gender-for-legal-purposes/557130/26 "2010-10-17T14:13:02Z")
haha yeah, it was a quote from the public prosecutor. More quotes (my translation might be a bit rusty, I’m a bit sick today), to give a bit more background: > [@](#): > > “Il convient de rejeter la demande de mainlevée de l’opposition à ce mariage car ce projet de mariage n’est pas fondé sur une véritable volonté matrimoniale mais sur un but étranger à celui de se comporter comme mari et femme, argumentait le Parquet. Ce projet de mariage constitue un acte militant dans le cadre de l’engagement des intéressés pour la cause du mouvement “transsexuel, homo ou bisexuel” et il a pour objectif de contester et de modifier la jurisprudence qui exclut le mariage homosexuel”[…] “L’une des conditions, de nature institutionnelle du mariage, est encore en France la différence de sexe implicitement exigée par le code civil” “The demand of removing opposition to this marriage must be rejected because this marriage project is not funded on a true matrimonial will but on another goal than the one to act as husband and wife. This marriage project is a militant act framed in the persons’ engagment for the LGBT cause and its aim is to contest and modify the casebook that excludes same-sex marriage.” “One of the conditions, institutional in nature, of marriage, is still in France the sex difference implicitely required by the civil code.” (French law doesn’t state explicitely that marriage must be bewteen a man and a woman, it was an argument used by supporters of SSM but got shot down.) and, on appeal: > [@](#): > > « l’intention matrimoniale alléguée » par le couple « n’est pas conforme à celle qu’induit l’institution matrimoniale du mariage en l’état du droit » “The matrimonial intention alleged” by the couple “does not conform to the one induced by the matrimonial institution of marriage with regard to the state of the law” ---
**Author:** ![Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/46a35a/32.png) [@Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tim_T-Bonham.net)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2010, 7:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-the-us-what-determines-my-gender-for-legal-purposes/557130/27 "2010-10-18T07:00:59Z")
> [@alphaboi867](#): > > True, but what happens if a servicemember starts dating a transsexual? Well, in the one case we know of ([Barry Winchell](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barry_Winchell)), he gets harassed for months by some fellow soldiers, and eventually beaten to death with baseball bats as he slept, and the commanding officer who took no responsibility for allowing this to happen gets promoted to General. ---
**Author:** ![waterj2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/858c86/32.png) [@waterj2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/waterj2)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2010, 6:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-the-us-what-determines-my-gender-for-legal-purposes/557130/28 "2010-10-19T06:46:46Z")
Here’s the necessary information for changing your gender on a Massachusetts ID, Social Security card, US passport and Massachusetts birth certificate: [http://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=cache:N0LbnJfa49gJ:www.masstpc.org/publications/gendermarker/gender\_change\_kit.pdf+massachusetts+law+gender+transition&hl=en&gl=us&pid=bl&srcid=ADGEESjoYcTZFusjQTzCO9mV1u7FlwElOUsZ-Kfvm\_jGglJwNuswT5v686LBpW00MrwN1yhxeQmtHBUjFRkaJ1YZ\_tuVdP4pxkRGwjF4t-2lneWTGcR\_Pq9u9CPMyroDXG8odk3Uxy2K&sig=AHIEtbSycr8pG1PdroSu-txcrdYpMF2vPA](http://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=cache:N0LbnJfa49gJ:www.masstpc.org/publications/gendermarker/gender_change_kit.pdf+massachusetts+law+gender+transition&hl=en&gl=us&pid=bl&srcid=ADGEESjoYcTZFusjQTzCO9mV1u7FlwElOUsZ-Kfvm_jGglJwNuswT5v686LBpW00MrwN1yhxeQmtHBUjFRkaJ1YZ_tuVdP4pxkRGwjF4t-2lneWTGcR_Pq9u9CPMyroDXG8odk3Uxy2K&sig=AHIEtbSycr8pG1PdroSu-txcrdYpMF2vPA) Social Security cards and amended birth certificates (in Massachusetts, at least) require your transition, including SRS, to be “complete” according to your physician. Massachusetts IDs and passports do not require SRS. ---
**Author:** ![Corrvin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/bbce88/32.png) [@Corrvin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Corrvin)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2010, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-the-us-what-determines-my-gender-for-legal-purposes/557130/29 "2010-10-19T16:51:42Z")
> [@Frylock](#): > > In the US, what determines my gender for legal purposes? As far as I understand, all 50 states mark a baby’s sex on the birth certificate. In most people’s cases, this designation lasts them all their lives, so that all their subsequent legal documents will all have the same sex marked. For people who are transgendered-- basically, if you feel that the doctor who wrote your birth cert made the wrong call?–each state has their own rules on changing sex on legal documents, and you’re stuck with the rules of the state you were born in. No matter how liberal a place you move to, if your birthplace doesn’t allow it, you’re stuck with what they put down. States who do allow legal sex changes require various amounts of physical/medical work, but they also require a letter about your intent from your doctor or therapist. (For instance, Oklahoma requires you to have “sexual reassignment surgery” to change your birth cert, but I think there’s considerable latitude in what that can be, as long as you don’t wind up with the other sex’s gonads. But your doctor has to make a statement that what you got was SRS.) So, it’s not like you could accidentally have some kind of terrible incident with a lawnmower and then discover you’d legally changed your sex, or anything. It’s mostly about intent, and also about the actions to back it up. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-the-us-what-determines-my-gender-for-legal-purposes/557130.md?page=1)