# In these cases, the canon of the series is just plan silly, and the creators know it. **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [August 23, 2005, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-these-cases-the-canon-of-the-series-is-just-plan-silly-and-the-creators-know-it/318279 "2005-08-23T16:34:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![CandidGamera](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/candidgamera/32/2878_2.png) [@CandidGamera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CandidGamera)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2005, 12:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-these-cases-the-canon-of-the-series-is-just-plan-silly-and-the-creators-know-it/318279/41 "2005-08-24T12:22:26Z")
> [@CandidGamera](#): > > Through in whatever you like, nothing makes me say ‘What were the writers smoking?’ like the giant cellophane S-shield. That should be ‘Throw’ - It’s early, and my mind is elsewhere. ---
**Author:** ![Draelin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ce73a5/32.png) [@Draelin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Draelin)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2005, 1:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-these-cases-the-canon-of-the-series-is-just-plan-silly-and-the-creators-know-it/318279/42 "2005-08-24T13:15:46Z")
> [@CandidGamera](#): > > …nothing makes me say ‘What were the writers smoking?’ like the giant cellophane S-shield. I also really liked the sudden appearance of the comfortable, silk-sheeted boudoir in the Fortress of Solitude. ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2005, 1:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-these-cases-the-canon-of-the-series-is-just-plan-silly-and-the-creators-know-it/318279/43 "2005-08-24T13:27:02Z")
Doctor Who- the Paul McGann TV movie introduced the idea that the Doctor is half human. Silly, silly idea. It’s been ignored (so far) in the new series. ---
**Author:** ![CandidGamera](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/candidgamera/32/2878_2.png) [@CandidGamera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CandidGamera)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2005, 1:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-these-cases-the-canon-of-the-series-is-just-plan-silly-and-the-creators-know-it/318279/44 "2005-08-24T13:29:28Z")
> [@Draelin](#): > > I also really liked the sudden appearance of the comfortable, silk-sheeted boudoir in the Fortress of Solitude. True enough, but I’m willing to give some leniency to them on that score - after all, if he sensed a pressing need for that, he could just zip off at superspeed and find it. Where does one even BUY a giant constricting illusionary S-shield? ---
**Author:** ![Draelin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ce73a5/32.png) [@Draelin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Draelin)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2005, 1:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-these-cases-the-canon-of-the-series-is-just-plan-silly-and-the-creators-know-it/318279/45 "2005-08-24T13:37:00Z")
> [@CandidGamera](#): > > Where does one even BUY a giant constricting illusionary S-shield? Duh … Target. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Anaamika](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2005, 1:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-these-cases-the-canon-of-the-series-is-just-plan-silly-and-the-creators-know-it/318279/46 "2005-08-24T13:43:42Z")
> [@CandidGamera](#): > > True enough, but I’m willing to give some leniency to them on that score - after all, if he sensed a pressing need for that, he could just zip off at superspeed and find it. Where does one even BUY a giant constricting illusionary S-shield? Oh, no. After all the ice cold walls, and sharp spikes all over the place, suddenly he has a beautiful nice little bed. Uh-uh. I’m not buying it. What about the thing where they just magically take his powers away? AND THEN GIVE THEM BACK! _shakes fist_ And then take someone else’s powers away, too! Zod’s no less. ---
**Author:** ![CandidGamera](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/candidgamera/32/2878_2.png) [@CandidGamera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CandidGamera)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2005, 1:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-these-cases-the-canon-of-the-series-is-just-plan-silly-and-the-creators-know-it/318279/47 "2005-08-24T13:45:56Z")
> [@Draelin](#): > > Duh … Target. 🙂 Ba-dum-bum. Good one. 😃 I dunno, Anaamika, the S-shield was the real mind-blower for me. Everything else - I can accept, in some tortured-logic fashion. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2005, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-these-cases-the-canon-of-the-series-is-just-plan-silly-and-the-creators-know-it/318279/48 "2005-08-24T14:53:54Z")
> [@Little Nemo](#): > > Even if you get somebody like Ironman, whose physical appearance is completely concealed, can’t anyone figure out his secret identity? I mean, he’s supposed to be Tony Stark’s bodyguard. Doesn’t anyone think it’s unusual that Ironman and Tony Stark never appear together? Don’t any supervillians ever think to make a list of a superhero’s known associates and then check off to see who’s the odd man or woman in that social circle who’s never there when the superhero is? Actually, in the 70s & 80s, Stark had a number of very realistic androids (LMDs, they were called, Life Model Decoys), which he would use from time to time to impersonate him (as Stark) while he was present as Iron Man. That said, at least two of his close friends–Bethany Cabe and James Rhodes–figured out that he and Iron Man were the same person simply by body language. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2005, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-these-cases-the-canon-of-the-series-is-just-plan-silly-and-the-creators-know-it/318279/49 "2005-08-24T15:00:15Z")
> [@Otto](#): > > In about the second issue of the Byrne run on Superman, Luthor set one of his lady minions to the task of learning everything about Superman there was to know. She fed everything into a SUPER COMPUTER! which figured out in about two seconds that Kent and Superman were the same person. Luthor refused to believe it, on the belief that no one as powerful as Superman would ever choose to pretend he wasn’t Superman. Poor lady minion lost her job. There was also mention in a few early issues of Kent keeping weights in his apartment to explain why he was in such good shape, and also a mention that he tried to keep from being photographed and would fog film with his x-ray vision if he realized his photo was taken. I recall that. I also recall Lois (who at the time didn’t know the Big Secret) missing a very obvious clue that he didn’t USE the weights. On a visit to Kent’s apartment, she picked one up and was surprised that it was no heavier than the ones she used (and given that she clearly aims for tone rather than bulk, her dumbbells were probably in the 5-10 pound range). Clark commented in a thought balloon that, because of his super-strength, he couldn’t tell the difference between a five-pound weight and a fifty-pounder (or, possibly, that he didn’t really know what weight a normal person would need to bulk up). ---
**Author:** ![Push\_You\_Down](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/push_you_down/32/9095_2.png) [@Push\_You\_Down](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Push_You_Down)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2005, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-these-cases-the-canon-of-the-series-is-just-plan-silly-and-the-creators-know-it/318279/50 "2005-08-24T16:08:47Z")
> [@CandidGamera](#): > > If I recall correctly, the most explicit indication was in the Season Four episode wherein Xander’s trying to repair the taser-gun Buffy retained from her “mission” for the Initiative. Perhaps “Goodbye, Iowa”. I can check when I have more time. Oh! All right. That’s the season that I have literally seen 5 episodes of. So I’ll take your word for it. ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2005, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-these-cases-the-canon-of-the-series-is-just-plan-silly-and-the-creators-know-it/318279/51 "2005-08-24T19:41:43Z")
> [@Tapioca Dextrin](#): > > The Simpsons know they’re not real. > > e.g. the what state are we from gags, the “we’ve had 300 exciting escapades”, other characters have commented on the fact the kids never seem to get older. Isn’t this more “breaking the fourth wall” than dismissing a canon? I know firsthand that the _Captain Underpants_ series of books does the same thing on a regular basis. “Didn’t Melvin warn us not to use the time machine two days in a row?” “Yeah, back on page 17, second paragraph, starting with the second sentence.” “What did he say?” “I don’t know, I’m bad with details.” 😃 ---
**Author:** ![DocCathode](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doccathode/32/18773_2.png) [@DocCathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocCathode)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2005, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-these-cases-the-canon-of-the-series-is-just-plan-silly-and-the-creators-know-it/318279/52 "2005-08-24T19:47:29Z")
> [@Fabulous Creature](#): > > Actually, in the 70s & 80s, Stark had a number of very realistic androids (LMDs, they were called, Life Model Decoys), which he would use from time to time to impersonate him (as Stark) while he was present as Iron Man. That said, at least two of his close friends–Bethany Cabe and James Rhodes–figured out that he and Iron Man were the same person simply by body language. I realized this morning that due to his close association with SHIELD (Supreme Headquarters International Espionage Law enforcement Division) Stark probably had access to LMDs. During the time Rhodes was Iron Man, several long time Avengers noticed IM was acting differently. Tigra finally says ‘Tony, what’s wrong?’. Rhodes didn’t feel comfortable revealing his identity yet. So he just says ‘I don’t want to to tell you my name yet. But as you can see-’ he removes one of his gauntlets to show that he’s an African American ‘I’m NOT Tony Stark.’ Re The Simpsons Any attempt to establish Simpsons continuity or canon is ludicrous. Smithers used to be black. When Krusty is arrested, we see him without make up and learn he is illiterate. When Homer goes in for a bypass, we learn that Krusty doesn’t wear make up. When Krusty fakes his own death, the make up he wore to change his appearance washes off revealing his real face (pale, red nose etc) underneath. Not including Halloween episodes- The Simpsons have been in a plane under attack by Godzilla, while Rodan and Gamera fight. At the animation expo, the Great Gazoo pops up and talks to Bart and Lisa. Jockeys are actually elf people who live underground in a fiberglass tree by a chocolate stream. Proffessor Frink owns a seemingly glitch free flying motorcycle. During the Deadly meteor shower, Frink sees an alien. The Springfield airforce base keeps an alien prisoner. Maggie keeps a rifle hidden in her crib and is a sharpshooter. Dr Nick Riviera successfully attached a severed arm and leg to the wrong places. But, both limbs have full function and sensation. Homer is thoroughly out of shape-except in the wacking day episode when he performs expert martial arts and flawless backflips. A book in the Simpson’s garage is capable of invoking demons. Major League Baseball is watching us all, pretty much all the time. ---
**Author:** ![Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otto)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2005, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-these-cases-the-canon-of-the-series-is-just-plan-silly-and-the-creators-know-it/318279/53 "2005-08-24T22:49:55Z")
> [@DocCathode](#): > > I realized this morning that due to his close association with SHIELD (Supreme Headquarters International Espionage Law enforcement Division) Stark probably had access to LMDs. I don’t remember Stark’s having access to LMDs or using them but I dipped in and out of following Iron Man so I could have missed it. If he did have access to LMDs, it was most likely terminated after SHIELD bought controlling interest in Stark International to try to force the company to start producing weapons again (Stark personally owned the patents to the weapons and most everything else SI made so without his cooperation the company was pretty much crippled). ---
**Author:** ![DocCathode](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doccathode/32/18773_2.png) [@DocCathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocCathode)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2005, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-these-cases-the-canon-of-the-series-is-just-plan-silly-and-the-creators-know-it/318279/54 "2005-08-24T23:25:02Z")
**Otto** I don’t know. After taking over Stark International (why the government didn’t just seize it as vital to national security I don’t know), I can see Nick Fury still providing Stark with LMDs both as a gesture of good will and because as far as Nick is concerned Tony should be protected in the interests of national security which would include hiding his secret identity. Back To The OP When John Byrne tried rewriting the history of the Hulk, it was so hated that even before the series finished the writer of another Hulk series explained that Byrne’s work wasn’t canon but just a comic published in the fictional world of Marvel. We see Rick Jones reading Byrne’s series and saying ‘Skrulls? You gotta be kidding.’ Re Secret Identities Starbrand dealt with this. “The White Event” has recently given some people superpowers. Starbrand shows up at a comic book convention in a mask and costume so that fans can chat with a real superhero. One of the writers at the convention points out the stupidy of glasses, a domino mask, etc hiding a secret identity. He then rattles off ‘You’re about 6 feet, 180 pounds, white male, blue eyes, judging by the bulge in your mask you’ve got a bug shnozz, and going by that accent you were raised in or around Pittsburgh. That narrows it down from “he could be anyone” to “he could be one of about a hundred guys.” .’ ---
**Author:** ![Hodge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Hodge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hodge)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2005, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-these-cases-the-canon-of-the-series-is-just-plan-silly-and-the-creators-know-it/318279/55 "2005-08-25T00:43:08Z")
> [@CandidGamera](#): > > Where does one even BUY a giant constricting illusionary S-shield? > [@Draelin](#): > > Duh … Target. 🙂 Nah…Shop Smart. Shop at S-Mart! ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2005, 3:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-these-cases-the-canon-of-the-series-is-just-plan-silly-and-the-creators-know-it/318279/56 "2005-08-25T03:52:34Z")
> [@](#): > > Actually, in the 70s & 80s, Stark had a number of very realistic androids (LMDs, they were called, Life Model Decoys), which he would use from time to time to impersonate him (as Stark) while he was present as Iron Man. That said, at least two of his close friends–Bethany Cabe and James Rhodes–figured out that he and Iron Man were the same person simply by body language. Sigh. Don’t geek out on me here. The same basic theory applies to virtually every superhero with a secret identity. If it makes you feel better substitute Batman, Captain America, Flash, Green Arrow, Green Lantern, Spider-Man, Superman, Wonder Woman, etc. Face facts, if superheroes were real, we’d have threads on this board trying to guess secret identities. ---
**Author:** ![Draelin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ce73a5/32.png) [@Draelin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Draelin)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2005, 1:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-these-cases-the-canon-of-the-series-is-just-plan-silly-and-the-creators-know-it/318279/57 "2005-08-25T13:16:08Z")
> [@Little Nemo](#): > > Face facts, if superheroes were real, we’d have threads on this board trying to guess secret identities. Okay, I’ve been giggling about this for quite a few minutes, trying to imagine how those threads would read. It’s _much_ funnier in my head right now, but I’m sure **CG** will come along shortly and actually type it out for us. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![CandidGamera](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/candidgamera/32/2878_2.png) [@CandidGamera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CandidGamera)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2005, 1:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-these-cases-the-canon-of-the-series-is-just-plan-silly-and-the-creators-know-it/318279/58 "2005-08-25T13:24:20Z")
> [@Draelin](#): > > Okay, I’ve been giggling about this for quite a few minutes, trying to imagine how those threads would read. It’s _much_ funnier in my head right now, but I’m sure **CG** will come along shortly and actually type it out for us. 🙂 OH? Oh. Uh… no pressure or anything… heh heh. _Taps the microphone_ Is this thing on? _fidgets with tie_ Uhh… ---
**Author:** ![Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otto)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2005, 1:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-these-cases-the-canon-of-the-series-is-just-plan-silly-and-the-creators-know-it/318279/59 "2005-08-25T13:49:50Z")
> [@Little Nemo](#): > > Face facts, if superheroes were real, we’d have threads on this board trying to guess secret identities. We already do. Although I guess we haven’t had a “Cecil is Ed Zotti” thread for a while… ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2005, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-these-cases-the-canon-of-the-series-is-just-plan-silly-and-the-creators-know-it/318279/60 "2005-08-25T14:29:58Z")
> [@DocCathode](#): > > I realized this morning that due to his close association with SHIELD (Supreme Headquarters International Espionage Law enforcement Division) Stark probably had access to LMDs. > > During the time Rhodes was Iron Man, several long time Avengers noticed IM was acting differently. Tigra finally says ‘Tony, what’s wrong?’. Rhodes didn’t feel comfortable revealing his identity yet. So he just says ‘I don’t want to to tell you my name yet. But as you can see-’ he removes one of his gauntlets to show that he’s an African American ‘I’m NOT Tony Stark.’ I seem to recall that it was Tigra, specifically, who knew that Iron Man and Tony were typically the same person; Hawkeye, Mockingbird, and Wonder Man didn’t know his secret identity yet. This was in the WCA miniseries, and later Hawkeye was vexed to discover that he had gotten a second-stringer rather than the original Iron Man. God, I’m such a putz to remember this. :wally [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-these-cases-the-canon-of-the-series-is-just-plan-silly-and-the-creators-know-it/318279.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-these-cases-the-canon-of-the-series-is-just-plan-silly-and-the-creators-know-it/318279.md?page=4)