# In US football, why do we never see the "chains" come out to measure if a first down was made? **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Tags:** football-nfl\ **Created:** [January 12, 2026, 5:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-us-football-why-do-we-never-see-the-chains-come-out-to-measure-if-a-first-down-was-made/1026584 "2026-01-12T05:43:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2026, 5:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-us-football-why-do-we-never-see-the-chains-come-out-to-measure-if-a-first-down-was-made/1026584/1 "2026-01-12T05:43:57Z")
Title kinda says it all: Growing up I recall seeing the measuring sticks come out from sidelines in US football games to see if a first down was made. It was a pretty common thing to see happen. I realized watching games today I have not seen that done in many years. What has changed? When did this stop? Or do they still do this and I have just been missing it? ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2026, 5:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-us-football-why-do-we-never-see-the-chains-come-out-to-measure-if-a-first-down-was-made/1026584/2 "2026-01-12T05:46:15Z")
In the NFL, the chains were still used, up through last year. This season, the league switched to a camera-and-tracking system. The “chain gang” is still in use (probably so that the players and coaches can see the first-down marker on the sideline), but apparently they don’t go onto the field for measurements any longer. (I have no idea if the chains are still used for measurements in college football, but I suspect that they are, at least for now.) > **[NFL to use cameras, not chains, to determine first downs in 2025](https://www.nbcnews.com/sports/nfl/nfl-use-cameras-not-chains-determine-first-downs-2025-rcna199157)** > > Sony’s Hawk-Eye system of six 8K cameras placed around every stadium will optically track the position of the ball. ---
**Author:** ![Shoeless](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shoeless/32/7099_2.png) [@Shoeless](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shoeless)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2026, 1:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-us-football-why-do-we-never-see-the-chains-come-out-to-measure-if-a-first-down-was-made/1026584/3 "2026-01-12T13:05:37Z")
Is that what that “virtual” measurement is? I’ve seen that come up a few times in games this season and thought “WTF? Is that a thing now?” Too bad they can’t use the same system to figure out where to spot the ball, because that’s where they really need some accuracy. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2026, 1:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-us-football-why-do-we-never-see-the-chains-come-out-to-measure-if-a-first-down-was-made/1026584/4 "2026-01-12T13:54:59Z")
The old method had a basic flaw in it. Don’t know if the new virtual measurements still do or not. ---
**Author:** ![muldoonthief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muldoonthief/32/3188_2.png) [@muldoonthief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/muldoonthief)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2026, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-us-football-why-do-we-never-see-the-chains-come-out-to-measure-if-a-first-down-was-made/1026584/5 "2026-01-12T14:13:37Z")
What was that? The old method seemed pretty accurate, as long as you trusted the 5 yard markers painted across the field were accurate. As Shoeless said, the spot is a far larger issue. ---
**Author:** ![robby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robby/32/11048_2.png) [@robby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robby)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2026, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-us-football-why-do-we-never-see-the-chains-come-out-to-measure-if-a-first-down-was-made/1026584/6 "2026-01-12T14:42:54Z")
I just watched the first game I’ve seen all season (because I’ve been busy with other stuff and haven’t had time to devote 3+ hours per week sitting in front of the TV). And I also noticed the chains never came out. I can’t say I’ll particularly miss it. Bringing out the chain gang always seemed like a bit of needless drama, with a bit of condescension thrown in to boot—because they made a big show of carefully measuring down to fractions of an inch whether a first down had been reached or not, when the spot of the ball was based on an eyeball judgement from an official way over on the sideline. Like they are trying to convince someone who doesn’t know any better that a careful determination has been made. And the new system doesn’t change that one bit. At least it’s faster than pulling out the chains. > [@Shoeless](#): > > Too bad they can’t use the same system to figure out where to spot the ball, because that’s where they really need some accuracy. Exactly. If the new system can track the ball so precisely, I don’t know why it can’t be used to help spot the ball in the first place. ---
**Author:** ![Jas09](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d07c76/32.png) [@Jas09](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jas09)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2026, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-us-football-why-do-we-never-see-the-chains-come-out-to-measure-if-a-first-down-was-made/1026584/7 "2026-01-12T14:47:11Z")
> [@robby](#): > > Exactly. If the new system can track the ball so precisely, I don’t know why it can’t be used to help spot the ball in the first place. It can’t though (or at least it isn’t being used that way). At least not with lots of players all piled up. When the ball has been placed and is sitting cleanly on the field it can very accurately determine where it is. But actually spotting the ball is still down to the referees. Eventually I’m expecting that they will use Hawkeye to aid with ball spotting, but I’m not sure exactly what that will look like (real-time info given directly to the ref vs. challenge system like tennis started with). Since it’s visual-based players obstructing the view will always be an issue. ---
**Author:** ![robby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robby/32/11048_2.png) [@robby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robby)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2026, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-us-football-why-do-we-never-see-the-chains-come-out-to-measure-if-a-first-down-was-made/1026584/8 "2026-01-12T14:58:10Z")
> [@Jas09](#): > > Since it’s visual-based players obstructing the view will always be an issue. Granted, but the system reportedly incorporates six 8K cameras. It seems like with enough cameras from different angles and enough computing power, the system should able to determine the proper spot of the ball, even in situations where the spot is based on forward progress. At least for the situations where it makes a difference (like whether a first down has been reached). With that said, I can see the system just giving up if the ball is completely obscured under a pile of players. In that case, even the refs are just guessing at the spot as they peel players off. ---
**Author:** ![snowthx](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowthx/32/10660_2.png) [@snowthx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snowthx)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2026, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-us-football-why-do-we-never-see-the-chains-come-out-to-measure-if-a-first-down-was-made/1026584/9 "2026-01-12T14:59:21Z")
Didn’t the NHL once use technology to highlight the puck on-screen so TV viewers would have an easier time seeing it? I imagine the NFL will eventually deploy something like that for spotting the ball (but hopefully not highlighting it - that was effing annoying in hockey). ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2026, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-us-football-why-do-we-never-see-the-chains-come-out-to-measure-if-a-first-down-was-made/1026584/10 "2026-01-12T15:15:28Z")
> [@robby](#): > > I just watched the first game I’ve seen all season (because I’ve been busy with other stuff and haven’t had time to devote 3+ hours per week sitting in front of the TV). And I also noticed the chains never came out. > > I can’t say I’ll particularly miss it. Bringing out the chain gang always seemed like a bit of needless drama, with a bit of condescension thrown in to boot—because they made a big show of carefully measuring down to fractions of an inch whether a first down had been reached or not, when the spot of the ball was based on an eyeball judgement from an official way over on the sideline. Like they are trying to convince someone who doesn’t know any better that a careful determination has been made. > > And the new system doesn’t change that one bit. At least it’s faster than pulling out the chains. > > > [@Shoeless](#): > > > > Too bad they can’t use the same system to figure out where to spot the ball, because that’s where they really need some accuracy. > > Exactly. If the new system can track the ball so precisely, I don’t know why it can’t be used to help spot the ball in the first place. I’m assuming they could easily determine the position of the ball. What is more difficult is pinpointing where the ball is when the appropriate body part is down or when forward progress stops. That’s more judgement and not strictly a measurement. ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2026, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-us-football-why-do-we-never-see-the-chains-come-out-to-measure-if-a-first-down-was-made/1026584/11 "2026-01-12T15:18:48Z")
> [@snowthx](#): > > Didn’t the NHL once use technology to highlight the puck on-screen I think just Fox Sports, or one of the networks. I thought it would have been useful, but they would change the highlighting when the puck went past a certain speed (from blue to red or something), which was annoying and distracting. If they just kept the highlighting the same, it would have been better received, in my opinion. It’s less useful now that everything is in HD, but back then, tracking the puck in SD was not that easy. Anyway, back to spotting the football, where half the time, the refs are like, “it’s around here” until it’s close to a first down and then, “the chains (or computer) says you’re off by half an inch”. ---
**Author:** ![robby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robby/32/11048_2.png) [@robby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robby)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2026, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-us-football-why-do-we-never-see-the-chains-come-out-to-measure-if-a-first-down-was-made/1026584/12 "2026-01-12T15:21:22Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > What is more difficult is pinpointing where the ball is when the appropriate body part is down or when forward progress stops. That’s more judgement and not strictly a measurement. That’s a good point about spotting the ball being a judgement call when the knee or other body part is down. As for forward progress, if the system can see the ball, it should be able to tell the farthest forward the ball gets in real time. ---
**Author:** ![Jas09](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d07c76/32.png) [@Jas09](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jas09)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2026, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-us-football-why-do-we-never-see-the-chains-come-out-to-measure-if-a-first-down-was-made/1026584/13 "2026-01-12T15:23:27Z")
> [@robby](#): > > As for forward progress, if the system can see the ball, it should be able to tell the farthest forward the ball gets in real time. True, except sometimes a runner is able to move the ball forward _after_ the refs have concluded that forward progress stops. I suppose you could somehow sync the whistle to the system to stop tracking forward movement once the whistle blows. I honestly can’t remember if forward progress is reviewable. I suppose I could Google it… It seems like it shouldn’t be since the defense could always argue they stopped pushing once they heard the whistle. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2026, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-us-football-why-do-we-never-see-the-chains-come-out-to-measure-if-a-first-down-was-made/1026584/14 "2026-01-12T16:39:36Z")
> [@Jas09](#): > > I honestly can’t remember if forward progress is reviewable. I suppose I could Google it I did and the answer is no. It is not something that can be reviewed. It is purely up to the ref’s judgement. ---
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2026, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-us-football-why-do-we-never-see-the-chains-come-out-to-measure-if-a-first-down-was-made/1026584/15 "2026-01-12T16:45:20Z")
As of the fall 2025 season, California high school football uses physical chains to check if a first down was achieved or not, when it’s not obvious. I’m not sure about college level. I didn’t see any games in person, and televised games often avoid broadcasting the mechanics of the game. ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2026, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-us-football-why-do-we-never-see-the-chains-come-out-to-measure-if-a-first-down-was-made/1026584/16 "2026-01-12T16:45:59Z")
> [@RitterSport](#): > > Anyway, back to spotting the football, where half the time, the refs are like, “it’s around here” until it’s close to a first down and then, “the chains (or computer) says you’re off by half an inch”. Agreed; it’s an innate silliness to the sport. I’d guess that, most times, the accuracy of the officials’ spot of the ball is +/- several inches (and sometimes more, if the ball and the ball carrier are in a pile-up, obscuring the officials’ view), but measurement on whether it’s a first down has an accuracy of a small fraction of an inch. ---
**Author:** ![mixdenny](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mixdenny/32/2962_2.png) [@mixdenny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mixdenny)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2026, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-us-football-why-do-we-never-see-the-chains-come-out-to-measure-if-a-first-down-was-made/1026584/17 "2026-01-12T16:47:56Z")
They could make the ball slightly radioactive, like the old Radio Golf Ball. Track that baby right down. Probably OK. > **[Radio Golf Ball (ca. 1910-1930)](https://www.orau.org/health-physics-museum/collection/consumer/miscellaneous/golf-ball.html)** ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2026, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-us-football-why-do-we-never-see-the-chains-come-out-to-measure-if-a-first-down-was-made/1026584/18 "2026-01-12T16:55:19Z")
> [@kenobi\_65](#): > > …measurement on whether it’s a first down has an accuracy of a small fraction of an inch. I remember seeing a game back in the 80s or early 90s where the measurment was so close the refs had to pause the game and determine if the measurement was the chain itself or included the bit the chain hooked into attached to the stick. I forget what the answer was. ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2026, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-us-football-why-do-we-never-see-the-chains-come-out-to-measure-if-a-first-down-was-made/1026584/19 "2026-01-12T16:59:26Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > I forget what the answer was. IIRC, the rule is (was) that if the forward tip of the ball touches (or goes past) the stick, it’s a first down. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2026, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-us-football-why-do-we-never-see-the-chains-come-out-to-measure-if-a-first-down-was-made/1026584/20 "2026-01-12T17:19:31Z")
> [@muldoonthief](#): > > What was that? From what I’ve observed, there’s a ten-yard chain, and a slider on it so that the chain can be picked and brought out to the ball, and placed in the same position it was on the sideline. The problem is, when someone gets a first down, they don’t bring the chain out to the ball to get the position exactly right. It would slow the game down too much to do that for every first down, so they just eyeball it from the sidelines. They could be off by an inch or two, and most of the time it would make no difference. But every once in a while, when the measurement is close, they bring the chains out to the ball and expect them to be accurate to fractions of an inch. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-us-football-why-do-we-never-see-the-chains-come-out-to-measure-if-a-first-down-was-made/1026584.md?page=2)