# In Vietnam We Called the Enemy "Charlie" **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [February 5, 2004, 1:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-vietnam-we-called-the-enemy-charlie/227659 "2004-02-05T13:32:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 19\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![notquitekarpov](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/71c47a/32.png) [@notquitekarpov](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/notquitekarpov)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2004, 8:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-vietnam-we-called-the-enemy-charlie/227659/21 "2004-02-06T08:54:23Z")
Surprised nobody has mentioned “the Bosche” in referring to the Germans in WWII (and WWI?). As a slight hijack from reading miliary diaries and biographies it seems to have been more common, at least amongst the officer class if the number of references are anything to go by. Has anyone any insight into whether “Fritz”, “Jerry” _ **were** _ more common useages amonst the ranks and “the Hun" and “the Bosche” were used more by British/Commonwealth officers? I get the impression that “Kraut” was mainly an Americanism… And as for the Italians? “Eyties” (presumably as in “I-talian”?) is the only one I know of - any others? ---
**Author:** ![notquitekarpov](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/71c47a/32.png) [@notquitekarpov](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/notquitekarpov)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2004, 9:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-vietnam-we-called-the-enemy-charlie/227659/22 "2004-02-06T09:04:18Z")
> [@labmonkey](#): > > Vietnam seems to have produced many: > > Dinks, no idea… IIRC it is short for Rinkydinks, which I think comes from an old Martin Branner US comic strip called “Perry and the Rinkydinks”. I have never seen the stip so cannot tell if there is some graphic resemblence. Anyone? There was a tale in Michael Kerr’s book on Vietnam, “Dispatches”, that some US Divisional General (with the Marines at Khe Sanh? Do not have my copy handy) had a favourite Uncle called Uncle Charlie and so didn’t want the VC referred to as Charlie and so promoted the Rinkydink/Dink alternative… ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Q](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/898d66/32.png) [@Johnny\_Q](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Q)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2004, 9:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-vietnam-we-called-the-enemy-charlie/227659/23 "2004-02-06T09:19:53Z")
On our side, I know we called the British Tommies(or they called themselves this) during WWII, so the whole collective nickname thing was fairly ubiquitous on our side. ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2004, 11:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-vietnam-we-called-the-enemy-charlie/227659/24 "2004-02-06T11:12:43Z")
When the Afghans fought the Soviets, they called them “Nikolai.” Not just because Nikolai is a common Russian name. It also made a play on words. _Niko_ means ‘good’. _La_ means ‘no’. _-i_ means ‘you are’. So (the Afghans obviously being Linda Ronstadt fans) _Nikolai_ means ‘You’re no good’. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2004, 11:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-vietnam-we-called-the-enemy-charlie/227659/25 "2004-02-06T11:41:45Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > I’ve heard that it’s even older, and comes from the _Fleur-de-lis_, which is vaguely froglike. You mean it has nothing to do with eating frogs? ---
**Author:** ![don\_t\_ask](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e68b1a/32.png) [@don\_t\_ask](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/don_t_ask)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2004, 12:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-vietnam-we-called-the-enemy-charlie/227659/26 "2004-02-06T12:07:03Z")
Australian soldiers I believe originally started calling US soldiers Seppos - rhyming slang septic tank = Yank. Unfortunately I can’t find an origin for the term but first heard it from WWII veterans. ---
**Author:** ![notquitekarpov](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/71c47a/32.png) [@notquitekarpov](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/notquitekarpov)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2004, 2:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-vietnam-we-called-the-enemy-charlie/227659/27 "2004-02-06T14:04:12Z")
Other way around I think. Septic Tanks was London rhyming slang for Yanks and the Aussies, being Aussies, further shortened it having picked it up in the Western Desert. At least according to my bro’ in the WW2LHA. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Milton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/6bbea6/32.png) [@Mr.Milton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Milton)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2004, 2:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-vietnam-we-called-the-enemy-charlie/227659/28 "2004-02-06T14:12:33Z")
Frogs and the Fleur de Lis: FWIW: IIRC Gregory of Tours wrote in his History of the Franks that the French use(d) the fleur de lis because there was a Frankish king (Pepin?) who had frogs on his banner, and that these were transformed by a miracle into lilies, the fleur de lis we now today. Possibly it was the miracle of bad draftsmanship, possibly the miracle of imagination and misperception. In this context, I am reminded of the first California flag as flown at Sonoma, where the quickly and poorly rendered bear prompted some to ask if having a pig on the new Republic’s banner was truly appropriate. ---
**Author:** ![BrotherCadfael](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@BrotherCadfael](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrotherCadfael)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2004, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-vietnam-we-called-the-enemy-charlie/227659/29 "2004-02-06T14:43:19Z")
In the novel _Starship Troopers_ (which somebody ought to make into a movie, by the way…), Heinlein notes that his soldiers, in full battle gear, looked not unlike “a hydrocephalic gorilla”, which may be the reason that sergeants commonly addressed their troops as “you apes”. On the other hand, he noted, Cesaer’s centurions probably used the same honorific. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2004, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-vietnam-we-called-the-enemy-charlie/227659/30 "2004-02-06T14:47:02Z")
I recall an article from right after the Falklands War asserting that British troops had begun calling the locals “Bennies”, after a friendly but stupid TV character. When the order came down to stop saying that, the troops changed the name to “Stills” - for “still Bennies”. ---
**Author:** ![Bromley](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4da419/32.png) [@Bromley](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bromley)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2004, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-vietnam-we-called-the-enemy-charlie/227659/31 "2004-02-06T15:00:58Z")
Although, just to clarify, the locals were of course friendly (being British citizens or similar). [Article](http://observer.guardian.co.uk/life/story/0,6903,668694,00.html) ---
**Author:** ![lieu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c2a13f/32.png) [@lieu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lieu)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2004, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-vietnam-we-called-the-enemy-charlie/227659/32 "2004-02-06T15:35:30Z")
I’ve also heard the Iraqis refered to disparagingly as "Ali Baba"s, although this may be less toward the actual soldiers and more toward anyone caught up in the post-combat thieving. ---
**Author:** ![Kizarvexius](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/da6949/32.png) [@Kizarvexius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kizarvexius)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2004, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-vietnam-we-called-the-enemy-charlie/227659/33 "2004-02-06T16:27:29Z")
> [@Mr. Milton](#): > > Frogs and the Fleur de Lis: > FWIW: IIRC Gregory of Tours wrote in his History of the Franks that the French use(d) the fleur de lis because there was a Frankish king (Pepin?) who had frogs on his banner, and that these were transformed by a miracle into lilies, the fleur de lis we now today. Possibly it was the miracle of bad draftsmanship, possibly the miracle of imagination and misperception. I am suddenly reminded of a picture that was in one of my dad’s books when I was a kid. It was a set of images that showed the gradual transformation of a frog into a fleur-de-lis. The picture probably was intended to illustrate the story that **Mr. Milton** relates above. Hadn’t thought of that in years. ---
**Author:** ![samclem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@samclem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samclem)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2004, 3:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-vietnam-we-called-the-enemy-charlie/227659/34 "2004-02-07T03:35:32Z")
_Dinks_ is originally Aussie slang referring to East Asians. It goes back at least to the 193o’s. The Americans picked it up from the Aussies in Vietnam, probably. _slope_ from at least WWII. _Raghead_ back to 1920/ college slang _Camel jockey_ before 1965. ---
**Author:** ![mangeorge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d78d45/32.png) [@mangeorge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mangeorge)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2004, 4:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-vietnam-we-called-the-enemy-charlie/227659/35 "2004-02-07T04:17:29Z")
> [@smiling bandit](#): > > In WWI the Germans were the “Krauts”, because, well, because they like sauerkraut. > > And boy are they right! Yummy sauerkraut all over delicious sausages!.. > I’m hungry. A German friend of mine say’s Americans are barbarians because we eat sauerkraut right out of the jar. She rinses it then heats it with other stuff. Can anyone in the know confirm? Oh yeah, the OP; Ragheads, and worse. Peace, mangeorge ---
**Author:** ![mobo85](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b19c9b/32.png) [@mobo85](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mobo85)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2004, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-vietnam-we-called-the-enemy-charlie/227659/36 "2004-02-07T22:55:55Z")
> [@Lampare](#): > > French: Frog-eating Surrender Monkeys. That’s Cheese-Eating Surrender Monkeys, a term coined by our old pal Groundskeeper Willie. ---
**Author:** ![Katisha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/bcef8e/32.png) [@Katisha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Katisha)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2004, 2:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-vietnam-we-called-the-enemy-charlie/227659/37 "2004-02-08T02:03:07Z")
> [@Johnny Q](#): > > On our side, I know we called the British Tommies(or they called themselves this) during WWII, so the whole collective nickname thing was fairly ubiquitous on our side. This comes from the use of the name _Thomas Atkins_ in sample enlistment forms – it dates back to the 19th century, according to OED. OED also says that _frog_ for the French probably has to do with eating frogs (it cross-references _frog-eater_), which is the story I’ve heard most commonly. (The equivalent French term, I guess, would be _les rosbifs_ for the English.) ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2004, 4:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-vietnam-we-called-the-enemy-charlie/227659/38 "2004-02-08T04:00:43Z")
> [@Kizarvexius](#): > > I don’t know about the other disparaging nicknames, but the French have been called “frogs” for well over a hundred years. Gilbert & Sullivan’s operetta _Ruddigore_ includes a song in which a British sailor tells of an encounter with a French frigate, the crew of which is called “Froggee”. And “poor parley-voo” ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Duality](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr.duality/32/4098_2.png) [@Mr.Duality](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Duality)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2004, 4:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-vietnam-we-called-the-enemy-charlie/227659/39 "2004-02-08T04:25:44Z")
Everyone knows U.S. troops referred to Viet Cong and North Vietnamese as “Charlie”. It is less well known that some U.S. troops, after they had been in-country for a while and had gained respect for the enemy, referred to the opposition as “Sir Charles”. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-vietnam-we-called-the-enemy-charlie/227659.md?page=1)