# In What Caste Is a Visitor To India? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [September 13, 2003, 3:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-what-caste-is-a-visitor-to-india/201330 "2003-09-13T03:29:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 19\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Lissa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/85f322/32.png) [@Lissa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lissa)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2003, 3:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-what-caste-is-a-visitor-to-india/201330/1 "2003-09-13T03:29:18Z")
Tonight I was reading a wonderful book on the social history of dinner ettiquette, and I came across a passage on Hindu dining customs and the many ways in which food can become ritually contaminated by contact with the lower castes. It got me to wondering that if I went to visit India, in what caste would I be in regards to ritual uncleanliness? Am I automatically an “Untouchable” because I was not born into their society? Would a Bhraman avoid contact with me as an unclean being? Or, as a visitor am I given a sort of free pass as far as class goes, not subject to the restrictions of the castes? ---
**Author:** ![xash](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/c6cbf5/32.png) [@xash](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/xash)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2003, 6:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-what-caste-is-a-visitor-to-india/201330/2 "2003-09-13T06:22:52Z")
I’m not the right person to answer this question, since my knowledge of casteism and rituals is limited, but in India, traditionally, the guest is treated as God. So you’re gonna be well looked after. For example, if there’s only one piece of cake, it’ll be offered to you first… if there’s just one bed, it’ll be yours while the host will sleep on the floor, etc. ---
**Author:** ![xash](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/c6cbf5/32.png) [@xash](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/xash)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2003, 6:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-what-caste-is-a-visitor-to-india/201330/3 "2003-09-13T06:25:20Z")
[http://www.tourismofindia.com/index.htm](http://www.tourismofindia.com/index.htm) “Sanskrit has a phrase “Atithi devo bhava” - The Guest is God and this is how you can expect to be treated.” ---
**Author:** ![najniran](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/958977/32.png) [@najniran](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/najniran)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2003, 6:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-what-caste-is-a-visitor-to-india/201330/4 "2003-09-13T06:50:17Z")
Bingo. Guests == free pass. Its more of a custom thing than a culture thing IMHO. The caste system in india has really just blended into two now. The untouchables…and everyone else. Least, thats what I noticed when I went there. ---
**Author:** ![st1d](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ac91a4/32.png) [@st1d](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/st1d)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2003, 8:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-what-caste-is-a-visitor-to-india/201330/5 "2003-09-13T08:22:02Z")
I noticed the same, even in the last 3 years. Now, untouchable almost means “I don’t want you to touch me” (or to know me), not someone that is cast aside against their will. Yes, they’d love the money/status, but some of them resemble similar people over here in the US. Offer them a way out, and they’ll almost get mad at you for doing so. It’s kind of weird, honestly. ---
**Author:** ![Derleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2003, 9:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-what-caste-is-a-visitor-to-india/201330/6 "2003-09-13T09:34:20Z")
And now **st1d** skirts the shoals of GD… ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2003, 10:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-what-caste-is-a-visitor-to-india/201330/7 "2003-09-13T10:06:00Z")
najniran: Customs are part of culture. ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2003, 10:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-what-caste-is-a-visitor-to-india/201330/8 "2003-09-13T10:25:35Z")
I’m wondering how to square that with the traditional classification of non-Indian non-Hindus under the caste system as _mleccha_, which means ‘impure foreign barbarian’. ---
**Author:** ![Gulo\_gulo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bcef8e/32.png) [@Gulo\_gulo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gulo_gulo)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2003, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-what-caste-is-a-visitor-to-india/201330/9 "2003-09-13T15:28:30Z")
**Lissa** : May I ask what the title is of the book you are reading? It sounds very interesting. ---
**Author:** ![trabi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecae2f/32.png) [@trabi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/trabi)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2003, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-what-caste-is-a-visitor-to-india/201330/10 "2003-09-13T16:07:30Z")
> [@](#): > > “Sanskrit has a phrase “Atithi devo bhava” - The Guest is God and this is how you can expect to be treated.” Actually, it means: “Tourists are fair game.” 😃 [SUB]Only joking[/SUB] ---
**Author:** ![Lissa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/85f322/32.png) [@Lissa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lissa)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2003, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-what-caste-is-a-visitor-to-india/201330/11 "2003-09-13T16:15:00Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Gulo gulo \* > \*\ ***Lissa** : May I ask what the title is of the book you are reading? It sounds very interesting. \*\* Sure. It’s[The Rituals Of Dinner: The Origins, Evolution, Eccentricities, and Meaning of Table Manners.](http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0140170790/qid=1063470135/sr=1-1/ref=sr_1_1/002-1056745-4049610?v=glance&s=books) It’s a very enjoyable book, which spans many cultures and eras. ---
**Author:** ![Myron\_Van\_Horowitzski](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de053/32.png) [@Myron\_Van\_Horowitzski](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Myron_Van_Horowitzski)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2003, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-what-caste-is-a-visitor-to-india/201330/12 "2003-09-15T15:46:22Z")
Margaret Visser, yeah. I’m glad to see her books have been reprinted. _The Way We Are_ and _Much Depends upon Dinner_ are fascinating, too. ---
**Author:** ![DougC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7feea3/32.png) [@DougC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DougC)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2003, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-what-caste-is-a-visitor-to-india/201330/13 "2003-09-15T16:29:39Z")
- - - Soooo… what caste is a landed immigrant in? A naturalized citizen, who has moved permanently to India from another country? (not that I am exactly considering it, but still) ~ ---
**Author:** ![Balle\_M](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/13edae/32.png) [@Balle\_M](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Balle_M)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2003, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-what-caste-is-a-visitor-to-india/201330/14 "2003-09-15T20:36:43Z")
Hmm…if I’m considered an untouchable, can I dress like Elliot Ness? ---
**Author:** ![sunfish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/96bed5/32.png) [@sunfish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sunfish)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2003, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-what-caste-is-a-visitor-to-india/201330/15 "2003-09-15T21:58:25Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by DougC \* > \*\*- - - Soooo… what caste is a landed immigrant in? A naturalized citizen, who has moved permanently to India from another country? (not that I am exactly considering it, but still) > ~ \*\* As I understand things (and somebody correct me please if I have this wrong), traditionally a person’s caste is determined by the caste of the father. (This is why a woman marrying into a lower caste was considered much worse than the opposite case.) Since you were born outside of the caste system, and caste is an aspect of culture, legal naturalization wouldn’t make one whit of difference for you. I don’t know quite how your children through marriage to an Indian woman would be viewed, although I note that [Anglo-Indians](http://www.angloexchange.com/) seem to view themselves as a separate group. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2003, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-what-caste-is-a-visitor-to-india/201330/16 "2003-09-16T14:32:39Z")
From the perspective of orthodox casteism, _all_ foreigners are _mlechchha_ (“unclean”). Your status depends on your _birth_, not your place of residence, your financial status or anything else. Additionally, any caste Hindu who “crosses the black water” (i.e., travels abroad) loses his or her caste status and becomes untouchable. From the perspective of what’s really going to happen to you when you go to India, a foreign visitor in India is not going to have to worry about caste, not unless you come up against some real orthodox extremists, and you wouldn’t want to have dinner at their place anyway. ---
**Author:** ![Zweistein](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/54ee81/32.png) [@Zweistein](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zweistein)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2003, 10:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-what-caste-is-a-visitor-to-india/201330/17 "2003-09-18T10:41:43Z")
Simple : If you are not a Hindu you are casteless. Casteless people should be avoided by practising Hindi - who do have a caste. The only problem is that the casteless average tourist has substantial more money to spend. This causes conflicts and is maybe an explication why some merchants in India are overagressive. ---
**Author:** ![sunfish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/96bed5/32.png) [@sunfish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sunfish)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2003, 12:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-what-caste-is-a-visitor-to-india/201330/18 "2003-09-18T12:43:13Z")
**Zweistein,** Hindi is a language; Hindu refers to a person who practices that religion. Also, to my knowledge, there has never been any functional restriction against devout Hindus of any caste “doing business” (and I use this term in a broad sense) with foreigners outside the caste system, so quite honestly the rest of your post makes no sense. Besides, overaggressive merchants can be found everywhere in the world and they aren’t always jockeying for tourist bucks. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![xash](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/c6cbf5/32.png) [@xash](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/xash)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2003, 12:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-what-caste-is-a-visitor-to-india/201330/19 "2003-09-18T12:49:06Z")
Hindi is the language, not the religion.