# In What Circumstances Could A 9yo Kill Another 9yo With Fists? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [March 29, 2019, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-what-circumstances-could-a-9yo-kill-another-9yo-with-fists/831713 "2019-03-29T14:46:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 12\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![x-ray\_vision](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/x-ray_vision/32/351_2.png) [@x-ray\_vision](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/x-ray_vision)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2019, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-what-circumstances-could-a-9yo-kill-another-9yo-with-fists/831713/21 "2019-03-29T22:36:04Z")
> [@mikecurtis](#): > > [Not true.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kermit_Washington) The part you quoted specifically says that blow fractured his face. The skull fracture and leaking CSF surely occurred due to the back of his head hitting the court. ---
**Author:** ![mikecurtis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mikecurtis/32/3284_2.png) [@mikecurtis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mikecurtis)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2019, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-what-circumstances-could-a-9yo-kill-another-9yo-with-fists/831713/22 "2019-03-29T23:20:38Z")
[skull](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skull) > [@](#): > > The skull is a bony structure that forms the head in vertebrates. It supports the structures of the face and provides a protective cavity for the brain.[1] The skull is composed of two parts: the cranium and the mandible. In the human, these two parts are the **neurocranium** and the **viscerocranium** or facial skeleton that includes the mandible as its largest bone > [@](#): > > . . .besides having the bone structure of his face detached from his skull. . .and broken jaw. . . ---
**Author:** ![Littleman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ccd318/32.png) [@Littleman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Littleman)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2019, 1:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-what-circumstances-could-a-9yo-kill-another-9yo-with-fists/831713/23 "2019-03-30T01:14:31Z")
Being pretty mushy and flexible , the human body can be extremely fragile or extremely resilliant. We can see people surviving failed parachutes or 60mph crashes on skis with 37 flips…or slip in the tub and die. Anyway throat hits could do it, but yeah after two days in the hospital it sounds more like brain swelling from an unlucky hit of the head somehow in this case. Not likely a punch but some other blow I’d say ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2019, 3:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-what-circumstances-could-a-9yo-kill-another-9yo-with-fists/831713/24 "2019-03-30T03:08:44Z")
I imagine when the circumstances are that one of the 9-year olds is a gorilla and the other is a human, fisticuffs traded by the two would likely be fatal for the human. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2019, 5:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-what-circumstances-could-a-9yo-kill-another-9yo-with-fists/831713/25 "2019-03-30T05:52:46Z")
For sure a 9-year old could kill another with fists. Enough blows, in the right place, with enough force. Humans are fragile, especially the brain. ---
**Author:** ![GreenWyvern](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/greenwyvern/32/2834_2.png) [@GreenWyvern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreenWyvern)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2019, 7:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-what-circumstances-could-a-9yo-kill-another-9yo-with-fists/831713/26 "2019-03-30T07:57:31Z")
In my own schooldays there was an incident where a kid who did karate hit another kid on the forehead in a fight. He was knocked unconscious and taken to hospital with concussion, but recovered. ---
**Author:** ![x-ray\_vision](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/x-ray_vision/32/351_2.png) [@x-ray\_vision](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/x-ray_vision)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2019, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-what-circumstances-could-a-9yo-kill-another-9yo-with-fists/831713/27 "2019-03-30T17:09:11Z")
> [@mikecurtis](#): > > [skull](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skull) Interesting. md2000 said “at least for adults - a man cannot break another’s skull with his bare fists, it would break his knuckles first.” You said it wasn’t true and linked to a story about a man having his cranium fractured after being punched and falling to the ground hitting the back of his head hard on the court. Part of what you quoted distinguishes between the skull and facial bones: > [@](#): > > fractured his face about one-third of an inch (8 mm) away from his skull That quote was using “skull” as synonymous with “cranium”, which is obviously why you picked that story and quote. You know md2000 was doing the same and wasn’t claiming a man can’t a break the facial bones of another man. If that’s what you thought he was saying, you most likely would have shown all of the broken jaws, orbits, etc. that occur from punches. You were linking to the Tomjanovich story particularly because a cranium bone was fractured, again, because you knew md2000’s claim was regarding the “cranium” and not the “skull.” There’s no good reason to believe a cranial bone of Tomjanovich was fractured directly from a punch to his face. ---
**Author:** ![mikecurtis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mikecurtis/32/3284_2.png) [@mikecurtis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mikecurtis)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2019, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-what-circumstances-could-a-9yo-kill-another-9yo-with-fists/831713/28 "2019-03-30T20:11:28Z")
There’s so much wrong with what you say. . . Let’s start with my motivation. I chose the Tomjanovich injury because the man damn near died from the punch alone, and Washington received no injury. > [@](#): > > The doctor who worked on Tomjanovich said “I have seen many people with far less serious injuries not make it,” and likened the surgery to Scotch-taping together a badly shattered eggshell. And the spinal fluid was leaking into his mouth through the hole in his face. Tomjanovich did suffer a fracture to the back of his skull which was most likely the cause of the concussion and loss of consciousness, but the lion’s share of the injuries were to the face, or the viscerocranium, if you will. But, as you rightly pointed out, fracturing jaws and orbital sockets (all part of the skull, btw) is not uncommon, but I dont have any cites for that. If you have anything more to say on this, take it to a priest. I’m done with our little exchange. mc ---
**Author:** ![x-ray\_vision](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/x-ray_vision/32/351_2.png) [@x-ray\_vision](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/x-ray_vision)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2019, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-what-circumstances-could-a-9yo-kill-another-9yo-with-fists/831713/29 "2019-03-30T21:48:39Z")
> [@mikecurtis](#): > > There’s so much wrong with what you say. . . > Let’s start with my motivation. I chose the Tomjanovich injury because the man damn near died from the punch alone, and Washington received no injury. There’s nothing wrong with what I said and I find the above hard to believe. You knew you did not have to prove to md2000 that facial bones can be broken with a punch. > [@](#): > > And the spinal fluid was leaking into his mouth through the hole in his face. Not necessarily. Leaking CSF commonly enters into the mouth via the sinus ducts. But why is this relevant? > [@](#): > > Tomjanovich did suffer a fracture to the back of his skull which was most likely the cause of the concussion and loss of consciousness, but the lion’s share of the injuries were to the face, or the viscerocranium, if you will. Why is that relevant? > [@](#): > > But, as you rightly pointed out, fracturing jaws and orbital sockets (all part of the skull, btw) is not uncommon, but I dont have any cites for that. Yeah, because you you don’t know how to Google _punches fractures face_ but you can find a story about a man that had his cranium fractured after a punch. > [@](#): > > But, as you rightly pointed out, fracturing jaws and orbital sockets (all part of the skull, btw) is not uncommon, but I dont have any cites for that. So common that a poster claiming that a punch to the skull won’t cause it to be fractured is almost certainly talking about the cranium only and not including facial bones. Laymen are frequently referring to the cranium only when they refer to the “skull”, just as the layman that wrote the article you quoted from from did. > [@](#): > > If you have anything more to say on this, take it to a priest. A priest? What an odd demand. No, I’ll take it right here. ---
**Author:** ![md2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/73ab20/32.png) [@md2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md2000)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2019, 5:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-what-circumstances-could-a-9yo-kill-another-9yo-with-fists/831713/30 "2019-04-01T05:01:15Z")
The skull is a dome - and technically, those are mechanically resilient. A whole egg can survive a lot of abuse that the individual shell fragments can’t. So striking and breaking a section of bone that does not have the 360-degree support structure is probably a lot easier than breaking the dome of the skull. I’ve know people who have had their jaw, for example, broken with a bare-hand punch. And also, there’s nothing magical about the knuckles - like the skull and the cheekbone and the jaw, they are bones, and not particularly big or thick. it’s the momentum of the hand and arm that packs the punch, so to speak. But I imagine boxing gloves came about because too many professional fighters ended up with fractured knuckles. And yes, you don’t need to fracture the skull dome to cause serious medical problems. Everyone should look up and read about the stupidity of the TV trope of knocking someone out for a while. (At which point they get up and are right as rain…) ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2019, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-what-circumstances-could-a-9yo-kill-another-9yo-with-fists/831713/31 "2019-04-19T23:40:31Z")
In What Circumstances Could A 9yo Kill Another 9yo With Fists? Update: [she wasn’t](https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/south-carolina-fifth-grader-school-fight-died-natural-causes-no-n996351). ---
**Author:** ![purplehorseshoe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/purplehorseshoe/32/2996_2.png) [@purplehorseshoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/purplehorseshoe)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2019, 5:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-what-circumstances-could-a-9yo-kill-another-9yo-with-fists/831713/32 "2019-04-20T05:48:37Z")
Wow. Did not see that coming. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-what-circumstances-could-a-9yo-kill-another-9yo-with-fists/831713.md?page=1)