# In what way is Serena Williams' "catsuit" disprespectful of the game? **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [August 25, 2018, 4:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-what-way-is-serena-williams-catsuit-disprespectful-of-the-game/820242 "2018-08-25T04:54:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Melbourne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5e925/32.png) [@Melbourne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Melbourne)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2018, 1:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-what-way-is-serena-williams-catsuit-disprespectful-of-the-game/820242/61 "2018-08-28T01:10:57Z")
He hasn’t actually said the Serena is disrespectful, or that her clothing choice is disrespectful: he’s been quoted as suggesting that her clothing choice doesn’t respect the game and place. Which is a slightly different thing than what you get when you choose the /most offensive alternate set of words you can use without turning purple with embarrassment/. Here is a different way of looking at it: He cares about the game and place (not about perving at young women). He wants other people to feel that the game and place are special, like he does. Not like, for example, a mere athletic spectacle, or not like a place just to watch athletes – things he could get by going to watch some other sport he has no interest in, at some other place he has no interest in. /He wants people to dress differently at tennis than they would at not-tennis/ to contribute to a special sense of time and history. Is it a better world because you choose to imagine the worst of other people? ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2018, 1:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-what-way-is-serena-williams-catsuit-disprespectful-of-the-game/820242/62 "2018-08-28T01:49:54Z")
What does “doesn’t respect” mean that’s not “disrespect”? That’s a lot of parsing to excuse something that black people, particularly black athletes, have faced for a long time—rich, old white men explaining to them what is respect and what is not when displaying their bodies in a field that they excel in. ---
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2018, 1:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-what-way-is-serena-williams-catsuit-disprespectful-of-the-game/820242/63 "2018-08-28T13:37:59Z")
> [@Melbourne](#): > > Here is a different way of looking at it: He cares about the game and place (not about perving at young women). He wants other people to feel that the game and place are special, like he does. Not like, for example, a mere athletic spectacle, or not like a place just to watch athletes – things he could get by going to watch some other sport he has no interest in, at some other place he has no interest in. /He wants people to dress differently at tennis than they would at not-tennis/ to contribute to a special sense of time and history. Even if we stipulate that what you explain is what the official intended, the official is still wrong. It is the tennis that give meaning to the event, not the outfits. By making it about the outfits, the official is distracting from what’s important. Form must follow function. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2018, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-what-way-is-serena-williams-catsuit-disprespectful-of-the-game/820242/64 "2018-08-28T16:08:45Z")
> [@Pleonast](#): > > Even if we stipulate that what you explain is what the official intended, the official is still wrong. It is the tennis that give meaning to the event, not the outfits. By making it about the outfits, the official is distracting from what’s important. Form must follow function. It’s an important tournament and they want it to look the part. The same way you do not expect your formal wedding guests to show up in cut off jean shorts despite how darn functional they are for sitting through speeches. ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2018, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-what-way-is-serena-williams-catsuit-disprespectful-of-the-game/820242/65 "2018-08-28T16:20:08Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > It’s an important tournament and they want it to look the part. The same way you do not expect your formal wedding guests to show up in cut off jean shorts despite how darn functional they are for sitting through speeches. Here are actual pictures of female players at this year’s French Open: [https://img.timesnownews.com/story/1528539938-halep\_vs\_stephens\_final\_image\_live\_blog.jpg?d=600x450](https://img.timesnownews.com/story/1528539938-halep_vs_stephens_final_image_live_blog.jpg?d=600x450) [![](https://i.eurosport.com/2018/06/02/2347270-48844170-2560-1440.jpg?w=1050) ](https://i.eurosport.com/2018/06/02/2347270-48844170-2560-1440.jpg?w=1050) > **[Women's Tennis Association - Official Website](https://www.wtatennis.com/photos)** > > The official website of the Women's Tennis Association. Rankings, live scores and more! Apparently, miniskirts (which show a lot of leg, but are, after all, _skirts_) are acceptable at an important tournament, but tights, which cover up more, aren’t. ---
**Author:** ![Ike\_Witt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ike_witt/32/283_2.png) [@Ike\_Witt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ike_Witt)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2018, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-what-way-is-serena-williams-catsuit-disprespectful-of-the-game/820242/66 "2018-08-28T18:39:36Z")
I love the [tutu](https://www.harpersbazaar.com/fashion/designers/a22850739/serena-williams-us-open-off-white-tutu/) that Serena wore in her last match. ---
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2018, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-what-way-is-serena-williams-catsuit-disprespectful-of-the-game/820242/67 "2018-08-28T19:59:54Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > It’s an important tournament and they want it to look the part. The same way you do not expect your formal wedding guests to show up in cut off jean shorts despite how darn functional they are for sitting through speeches. Players will look the part when they can wear the performance athletic gear they need to play at their peek. Officials who want to make fashion an element of the tournament are detracting from its purpose. Perhaps they can hold an adjunct fashion show where all the players can show off their latest outfits and the officials can make comments about them there. ---
**Author:** ![Hilarity\_N.Suze](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hilarity_n.suze/32/6223_2.png) [@Hilarity\_N.Suze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hilarity_N.Suze)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2018, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-what-way-is-serena-williams-catsuit-disprespectful-of-the-game/820242/68 "2018-08-28T20:04:44Z")
Of course they want you to show up for your match dressed differently than you are on the practice court. Maybe Serena’s outfit looked too practice court. I didn’t think so. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2018, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-what-way-is-serena-williams-catsuit-disprespectful-of-the-game/820242/69 "2018-08-28T21:18:34Z")
The author of this piece seems to think it’s for her blackness: > **[Serena Williams is being policed for her blackness | CNN](https://www.cnn.com/2018/08/28/opinions/serena-williams-catsuit-controversy-love/index.html)** > > David Love writes that Serena Williams not being allowed to wear her black catsuit in the French Open is yet another example of black people being subjected to forms of racial discrimination that should be things of the past. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2018, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-what-way-is-serena-williams-catsuit-disprespectful-of-the-game/820242/70 "2018-08-28T22:35:30Z")
> [@](#): > > Quoth **Pleonast** : > > Players will look the part when they can wear the performance athletic gear they need to play at their peek. Officials who want to make fashion an element of the tournament are detracting from its purpose. Exactly. If anything, it’s the players in the dainty white miniskirts who are disrespecting the tournament, because they’re making it look like they don’t take their sport seriously. ---
**Author:** ![blob](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blob/32/489_2.png) [@blob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blob)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2018, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-what-way-is-serena-williams-catsuit-disprespectful-of-the-game/820242/71 "2018-08-28T23:40:22Z")
I’ve never paid attention to what tennis players wear. They had a report on tv about a match at the US Open and I gave it some attention to see what they had on. They looked to be wearing bathers (swimming costumes) with a “skirt” around the bottom (ie not covering their legs as all). Compared to Serena’s outfit, they looked more “objectionable”. Tennis isn’t volleyball. I hope the new “dress code” has something that prevents wearing bathers… And again, I can’t wait to see what restrictions they put on the men. ---
**Author:** ![Omniscient](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omniscient/32/3290_2.png) [@Omniscient](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omniscient)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2018, 12:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-what-way-is-serena-williams-catsuit-disprespectful-of-the-game/820242/72 "2018-08-29T00:08:15Z")
> [@kenobi\_65](#): > > Here are actual pictures of female players at this year’s French Open: > [https://img.timesnownews.com/story/1528539938-halep\_vs\_stephens\_final\_image\_live\_blog.jpg?d=600x450](https://img.timesnownews.com/story/1528539938-halep_vs_stephens_final_image_live_blog.jpg?d=600x450) > [https://i.eurosport.com/2018/06/02/2347270-48844170-2560-1440.jpg?w=1050](https://i.eurosport.com/2018/06/02/2347270-48844170-2560-1440.jpg?w=1050) > [http://www.wtatennis.com/sites/default/files/styles/highlight\_news\_mobile\_1\_33\_1\_2x/public/field/image/screen\_shot\_2018-05-27\_at\_9.02.30\_am.jpg](http://www.wtatennis.com/sites/default/files/styles/highlight_news_mobile_1_33_1_2x/public/field/image/screen_shot_2018-05-27_at_9.02.30_am.jpg) > > Apparently, miniskirts (which show a lot of leg, but are, after all, _skirts_) are acceptable at an important tournament, but tights, which cover up more, aren’t. Where are you guys getting this? Are you just too American? There hasn’t been a single comment from the FO that implies in even an oblique way that the amount of skin being shown is a factor at all, in their complaint. This thread is a massive strawman. ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2018, 12:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-what-way-is-serena-williams-catsuit-disprespectful-of-the-game/820242/73 "2018-08-29T00:21:22Z")
> [@Omniscient](#): > > Where are you guys getting this? Are you just too American? There hasn’t been a single comment from the FO that implies in even an oblique way that the amount of skin being shown is a factor at all, in their complaint. This thread is a massive strawman. I was actually responding to CarnalK, who said: > [@CarnalK](#): > > It’s an important tournament and they want it to look the part. The same way you do not expect your formal wedding guests to show up in cut off jean shorts despite how darn functional they are for sitting through speeches. Though, TBH, the comment could be directed at the Open official, as well. My point was that a little miniskirt, panties that show when the player swings, and a top that shows a little midriff, are apparently seen as appropriate and acceptable attire for a professional tennis player. But, somehow, a bodysuit isn’t. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Irishman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b487fb/32.png) [@Irishman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Irishman)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2018, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-what-way-is-serena-williams-catsuit-disprespectful-of-the-game/820242/74 "2018-08-29T00:55:46Z")
They haven’t actually said what it is they don’t want, except Serena and her suits. And what others are pointing out is not that the FO officials have said amount of skin plus or minus is the issue, but rather that tiny skirts that cover nothing are acceptable but a compression suit that covers more skin is somehow (not explained) not appropriate and disrespectful. So it can’t be an issue of immodesty, it has to be something else. ---
**Author:** ![blob](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blob/32/489_2.png) [@blob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blob)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2018, 1:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-what-way-is-serena-williams-catsuit-disprespectful-of-the-game/820242/75 "2018-08-29T01:01:56Z")
> [@Irishman](#): > > it has to be something else. Yes, something imaginary and irrational. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2018, 12:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-what-way-is-serena-williams-catsuit-disprespectful-of-the-game/820242/76 "2018-08-29T12:37:21Z")
Maybe it’s that those other outfits look like tennis outfits and the thing Serena wore looked like a speedskater outfit. ---
**Author:** ![blob](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blob/32/489_2.png) [@blob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blob)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2018, 12:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-what-way-is-serena-williams-catsuit-disprespectful-of-the-game/820242/77 "2018-08-29T12:48:31Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > Maybe it’s that those other outfits look like tennis outfits No, they look like bathers. ---
**Author:** ![Ike\_Witt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ike_witt/32/283_2.png) [@Ike\_Witt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ike_Witt)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2018, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-what-way-is-serena-williams-catsuit-disprespectful-of-the-game/820242/78 "2018-08-29T18:53:12Z")
More tennis attire/code issues, this time at the US Open. [US Open clarifies shirt change rule](http://www.espn.com/tennis/story/_/id/24513634/us-open-clarifies-changing-shirt-rule-alize-cornet-penalty). ---
**Author:** ![blob](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blob/32/489_2.png) [@blob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blob)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2018, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-what-way-is-serena-williams-catsuit-disprespectful-of-the-game/820242/79 "2018-08-29T23:49:25Z")
> [@Ike\_Witt](#): > > More tennis attire/code issues, More sexist nonsense… ---
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2018, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-what-way-is-serena-williams-catsuit-disprespectful-of-the-game/820242/80 "2018-08-30T01:05:43Z")
> [@Chisquirrel](#): > > A sport that has thrived of the sexual objectification of many of it’s stars is now complaining about a bodysuit? > > Dear me, where’s the fainting couch? I feel my vapors rising! But she’s not a skinny, white Russian teenager, you see. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-what-way-is-serena-williams-catsuit-disprespectful-of-the-game/820242.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-what-way-is-serena-williams-catsuit-disprespectful-of-the-game/820242.md?page=5)