# In what ways are men discriminated against? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [April 8, 2012, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-what-ways-are-men-discriminated-against/618184 "2012-04-08T16:38:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![miss\_elizabeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/838e76/32.png) [@miss\_elizabeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/miss_elizabeth)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2012, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-what-ways-are-men-discriminated-against/618184/181 "2012-04-10T23:43:35Z")
> [@DiosaBellissima](#): > > Well said. > > Look guys, here’s the point we’re making: there are plenty of legitimate ways men are discriminated against in our society (several of which have been mentioned and discussed in this thread, namely the sex predator point), but some of the stuff getting thrown around here is just nonsense. It’d be like me comparing my shitty week at work literally to the Gulag- that doesn’t help my point at all, it just makes me look like I have no perspective whatsoever. +1 million and I adore you. I am 100% in favor of ending discrimination against men. I call myself a masculist (as well as a feminist) and I have actually done real work in the real world to help male victims of rape (by women) and spousal abuse, and I’ve donated money and written letters to bring attention to prison rape of men. In fact, I’d be pretty much willing to bet I’ve done more real world work than most of the people in this thread to end discrimination against men. Certainly more than most men, who seem to mostly like complaining, and no so much the hard effort required to enact change. I see feminists working all the time to make things more equal; I see Men’s Rights Activists committing terrorism. This thread is just one more example of how utterly dumb certain men act when you ask them how they’ve been discriminated against; a few valid complaints, a whole lot of bullshit, and NO intention to effect change. Yawn. Guys, not getting laid by the women you want to fuck (and with zero effort on your part) is NOT the most pressing issue facing men today. It isn’t an issue _at all_. And the longer you continue to pretend it is, the longer no one will take this movement seriously. Which, honestly, if this is the best you can do, thank goodness. ---
**Author:** ![ladyfoxfyre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ad7895/32.png) [@ladyfoxfyre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ladyfoxfyre)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2012, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-what-ways-are-men-discriminated-against/618184/182 "2012-04-11T00:04:50Z")
> [@phxjcc](#): > > It is highly reflective of your mindset that you jump to this conclusion. > > At the time of marriage: > She: HS Educated legal secretary, salary: 35K > He: Graduate degree, salary 34K > > To be clear, the issue that I have with alimony is that IMHO it should be allowed in order to restore job skills for the spouse of no income. It should in no way provide for the “maintenance of lifestyle”, which is a de facto judgement of the courts today. Fantastic. However, you said she didn’t work for 15 years, and where she volunteers now is uncompensated That skews the income for each party, now doesn’t it. It doesn’t matter what she made at the time of marriage. It matters what she makes at the time of divorce. ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2012, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-what-ways-are-men-discriminated-against/618184/183 "2012-04-11T00:49:41Z")
> [@Mijin](#): > > The point had been made that one is not forced to have sex, so whatever cultural expectations there may be attached to doing that we cannot complain about. The point was, if that logic held, one could not complain about dowries either. In fact, to clarify further what I was saying: it was _deliberate_ that there is a very big difference in scale in these two situations. It’s an argument of “If your logic holds, then it should also hold in this absurd situation where it obviously doesn’t”. But I should have known to be careful in this thread, because the accusation of equivocating men’s problems with women’s problems is made often in discussions of this kind. Whether anyone has made such an equivocation or not. ---
**Author:** ![Ibanez](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/a4c791/32.png) [@Ibanez](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibanez)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2012, 1:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-what-ways-are-men-discriminated-against/618184/184 "2012-04-11T01:08:26Z")
> [@AqualungBats5th](#): > > Still waiting for someone to explain how the so-called discrimination against men here in these commercials leads to broad social consequences for men, or how it sets men back as a group in society. My point is regarding misandry in commercials not discrimination . The OP asked for examples of male misandry or discrimination. In the link I provided in those commercials if you reversed the roles, pretty safe bet that it wouldn’t be accepted. Why is that ? Maybe it’s because it perpetuates a negative stereotype So why should it be acceptable for men to be portrayed that way ? I’ll readily admit with the advent of television and the media women bore the brunt of stereotypes for quiet some time for a couple of decades . But that has changed thankfully, and are in fact always portrayed as beautiful, intelligent, caring beings and **never** the opposite, while men are emasculated, portrayed as dumb asses who can’t get anything done unless a woman as around. The affect that they may have is that some men become to feel alienated and marginalized by media, their punching bag for a chuckle in order to entertain so some corporation can sell some yogurt If it was a little blip in media in the past decade or so myself and others wouldn’t be bringing this up, it isn’t just a little blip. Honestly I hard time addressing your points regarding the broad social consequences for men, all I can say is I don’t like seeing white males portrayed that way when it wouldn’t be acceptable if it was any other identifiable group. If you don’t mind, I’ll ask you the same question you posed to me but reverse it, even though it doesn’t presently exist . _Explain how the so-called discrimination against women here in these commercials leads to broad social consequences for women, or how it sets women back as a group in society._ Also, I’m a little uncomfortable using the term misandry as to what is going on in media presently. There’s no outright display of male hatred, but it’s everything else of what usually leads up to hatred that is being displayed and me don’t likey. ---
**Author:** ![DiosaBellissima](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a8b319/32.png) [@DiosaBellissima](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DiosaBellissima)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2012, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-what-ways-are-men-discriminated-against/618184/185 "2012-04-11T01:17:38Z")
> [@Mijin](#): > > But I should have known to be careful in this thread, because the accusation of equivocating men’s problems with women’s problems is made often in discussions of this kind. Whether anyone has made such an equivocation or not. But. . . you did. You made a juxtaposition between a male problem and a female problem. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2012, 1:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-what-ways-are-men-discriminated-against/618184/186 "2012-04-11T01:19:31Z")
> [@Ibanez](#): > > But that has changed thankfully, and are in fact always portrayed as beautiful, intelligent, caring beings and **never** the opposite, while men are emasculated, portrayed as dumb asses who can’t get anything done unless a woman as around. I’m constantly amazed at how many people can “analyze” advertisements like this without being able to recognize that portraying men at useless doofuses actually plays into stereotypes about women’s roles as well. Men are most often portrayed as stupid in commercials related to household and domestic issues. Sure, this says something about men, but it also reinforces much older assumptions about women’s place in society. After all, if men are too stupid to use a vaccuum cleaner, or cook dinner, or use a washing machine, that means that it’s OK to leave those jobs to women. For example, the Roomba ad where the woman described her kids as pigs and her husband as an ass. The whole emphasis of the commercial is that keeping a house clean is a woman’s job. All of this is right there in the actual commercials you linked to, and it stands out like dogs’ balls to anyone who wants to actually look for it. If you’re main aim to fell like a persecuted man, though, and you’re about as smart as the guys in those ads, then you might miss it. ---
**Author:** ![Ibanez](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/a4c791/32.png) [@Ibanez](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibanez)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2012, 1:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-what-ways-are-men-discriminated-against/618184/187 "2012-04-11T01:24:06Z")
Real case of male discrimination. A man in my programming course who I got to know well enough who seem to be a nice enough guy. Went to school to becom a dental hygienist and graduated the top of his class. He could not get hired, and that’s why he was in my programming course. ---
**Author:** ![Rigamarole](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/77aa72/32.png) [@Rigamarole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rigamarole)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2012, 1:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-what-ways-are-men-discriminated-against/618184/188 "2012-04-11T01:27:59Z")
> [@Ibanez](#): > > Real case of male discrimination. A man in my programming course who I got to know well enough who seem to be a nice enough guy. Went to school to becom a dental hygienist and graduated the top of his class. He could not get hired, and that’s why he was in my programming course. Yeah, I don’t think it’s an accident that my male dentist has only super-cute, young, female hygienists working for him. Of course, I don’t complain when I visit. I would complain if I were him, though. ---
**Author:** ![AqualungBats5th](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/6bbea6/32.png) [@AqualungBats5th](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AqualungBats5th)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2012, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-what-ways-are-men-discriminated-against/618184/189 "2012-04-11T01:30:59Z")
> [@Ibanez](#): > > Real case of male discrimination. A man in my programming course who I got to know well enough who seem to be a nice enough guy. Went to school to becom a dental hygienist and graduated the top of his class. He could not get hired, and that’s why he was in my programming course. how did he know that he was not hired specifically because he was a man? Also, in regard to your question from the other post, it should be blindingly obvious how sexist stereotypes are harmful to women as a group. **mhendo** put it pretty well, though. ---
**Author:** ![Ibanez](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/a4c791/32.png) [@Ibanez](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibanez)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2012, 1:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-what-ways-are-men-discriminated-against/618184/190 "2012-04-11T01:31:41Z")
> [@mhendo](#): > > For example, the Roomba ad where the woman described her kids as pigs and her husband as an ass. The whole emphasis of the commercial is that keeping a house clean is a woman’s job. Nah, since men have been cleaning houses for some time now I think you missed it. In that add the message is men are too stupid to even carry out even the most mundane tasks that it takes a woman in order to get the job done right and gets a roomba. ---
**Author:** ![mister\_nyx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@mister\_nyx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mister_nyx)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2012, 1:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-what-ways-are-men-discriminated-against/618184/191 "2012-04-11T01:33:09Z")
> [@Ibanez](#): > > My point is regarding misandry in commercials not discrimination . The OP asked for examples of male misandry or discrimination. In the link I provided in those commercials if you reversed the roles, pretty safe bet that it wouldn’t be accepted. Why is that ? Maybe it’s because it perpetuates a negative stereotype So why should it be acceptable for men to be portrayed that way ? I’ll readily admit with the advent of television and the media women bore the brunt of stereotypes for quiet some time for a couple of decades . But that has changed thankfully, and are in fact always portrayed as beautiful, intelligent, caring beings and **never** the opposite, while men are emasculated, portrayed as dumb asses who can’t get anything done unless a woman as around. > > The affect that they may have is that some men become to feel alienated and marginalized by media, their punching bag for a chuckle in order to entertain so some corporation can sell some yogurt If it was a little blip in media in the past decade or so myself and others wouldn’t be bringing this up, it isn’t just a little blip. Honestly I hard time addressing your points regarding the broad social consequences for men, all I can say is I don’t like seeing white males portrayed that way when it wouldn’t be acceptable if it was any other identifiable group. If you don’t mind, I’ll ask you the same question you posed to me but reverse it, even though it doesn’t presently exist . > > _Explain how the so-called discrimination against women here in these commercials leads to broad social consequences for women, or how it sets women back as a group in society._ > > Also, I’m a little uncomfortable using the term misandry as to what is going on in media presently. There’s no outright display of male hatred, but it’s everything else of what usually leads up to hatred that is being displayed and me don’t likey. The man who is incompetent at housework has been a staple of humor at least since 50s-era sitcoms, and I would bet probably well before that. Long before Gloria Steinem and Betty Friedan got all them women all riled up. Perhaps the reason it hasn’t disappeared is the obvious one: the media are presenting the age-old view that men are absolutely unsuited towards housework. This is not just a trend in modern commercials; it’s an old cliché. The idea that this is offensive to men is laughable; they’re pushing a message that is helpful to men – that men are somehow so incompetent at doing housework that women have to do it for them. This message furthers the tendency for women to be tasked with doing a disproportionate amount of housework, something that, according to statistics, is true even in households in which a man and a woman are both employed full time. It’s not surprising at all, really, that the media push an idea that’s so useful for men. It’s no weirder than all those sitcoms that show unattractive schlubs married to beautiful younger women. I’m honestly laughing in my G&T at the idea that commercials showing men as being unable to so much as scrub a toilet are somehow hurtful to men. The commercials always show the cheerful wife fixing hubby’s mistakes and telling him not to bother even trying next time. The idea that that is some sort of affront to men is the most absurdly unself-aware thing I’ve heard today. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2012, 1:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-what-ways-are-men-discriminated-against/618184/192 "2012-04-11T01:34:16Z")
> [@Ibanez](#): > > Nah, since men have been cleaning houses for some time now I think you missed it. This tells me nearly all i need to know about your ability to analyze cultural phenomena. I’ll leave you to your persecution syndrome. ---
**Author:** ![mister\_nyx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@mister\_nyx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mister_nyx)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2012, 1:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-what-ways-are-men-discriminated-against/618184/193 "2012-04-11T01:34:45Z")
> [@Rigamarole](#): > > Yeah, I don’t think it’s an accident that my male dentist has only super-cute, young, female hygienists working for him. Of course, I don’t complain when I visit. I would complain if I were him, though. You’re citing an example of a male dentist refusing to hire women who aren’t conventionally attractive and young as an example of men being discriminated against? Wow. ---
**Author:** ![Ibanez](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/a4c791/32.png) [@Ibanez](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibanez)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2012, 1:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-what-ways-are-men-discriminated-against/618184/194 "2012-04-11T01:37:33Z")
> [@AqualungBats5th](#): > > how did he know that he was not hired specifically because he was a man? Have you ever seen an male dental hygenist ? Be honest. ---
**Author:** ![AqualungBats5th](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/6bbea6/32.png) [@AqualungBats5th](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AqualungBats5th)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2012, 1:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-what-ways-are-men-discriminated-against/618184/195 "2012-04-11T01:40:01Z")
> [@Ibanez](#): > > Have you ever seen an male dental hygenist ? Be honest. I have never given it the slightest thought in my life. That is not an answer to the question I posed. ---
**Author:** ![Ibanez](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/a4c791/32.png) [@Ibanez](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibanez)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2012, 1:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-what-ways-are-men-discriminated-against/618184/196 "2012-04-11T01:42:16Z")
> [@mister\_nyx](#): > > The man who is incompetent at housework has been a staple of humor at least since 50s-era sitcoms, and I would bet probably well before that. Long before Gloria Steinem and Betty Friedan got all them women all riled up. > > Perhaps the reason it hasn’t disappeared is the obvious one: the media are presenting the age-old view that men are absolutely unsuited towards housework. This is not just a trend in modern commercials; it’s an old cliché. The idea that this is offensive to men is laughable; they’re pushing a message that is helpful to men – that men are somehow so incompetent at doing housework that women have to do it for them. This message furthers the tendency for women to be tasked with doing a disproportionate amount of housework, something that, according to statistics, is true even in households in which a man and a woman are both employed full time. > > It’s not surprising at all, really, that the media push an idea that’s so useful for men. It’s no weirder than all those sitcoms that show unattractive schlubs married to beautiful younger women. > > I’m honestly laughing in my G&T at the idea that commercials showing men as being unable to so much as scrub a toilet are somehow hurtful to men. The commercials always show the cheerful wife fixing hubby’s mistakes and telling him not to bother even trying next time. The idea that that is some sort of affront to men is the most absurdly unself-aware thing I’ve heard today. Fair enough, that’s your opinion. You may think it’s funny and helpful for men. I don’t. ---
**Author:** ![mister\_nyx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@mister\_nyx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mister_nyx)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2012, 1:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-what-ways-are-men-discriminated-against/618184/197 "2012-04-11T01:45:21Z")
> [@Ibanez](#): > > Fair enough, that’s your opinion. You may think it’s funny and helpful for men. I don’t. Okay. You’re construing something that is a pre-feminism media convention that was shitty and unfair to women as an assault on men. And you know what? That’s because there aren’t actual examples of the media being grossly unfair to men. If there were, you wouldn’t have to cite misogynistic shit like this and try to pretend it’s somehow cruel to men. ---
**Author:** ![DiosaBellissima](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a8b319/32.png) [@DiosaBellissima](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DiosaBellissima)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2012, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-what-ways-are-men-discriminated-against/618184/198 "2012-04-11T01:47:02Z")
> [@Ibanez](#): > > Have you ever seen an male dental hygenist ? Be honest. Yes, several and countless different dentist offices. I’ve also had lots of male nurses and even (_le gasp_) male gynecologists. Hell, I’ve even had male secretaries-- actually, we currently do :eek:. ---
**Author:** ![Ibanez](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/a4c791/32.png) [@Ibanez](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibanez)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2012, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-what-ways-are-men-discriminated-against/618184/199 "2012-04-11T01:48:57Z")
> [@AqualungBats5th](#): > > I have never given it the slightest thought in my life. That is not an answer to the question I posed. Of course they didn’t tell well, we all know only vaginas can prevent tooth decay, that would open them up to a lawsuit right ? Doctors are pretty bright after all and would know enough not to say that. If it helps my sister has been working for a dentist for the past 20 years and she says the dentists only hire female hygenists. ---
**Author:** ![Rigamarole](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/77aa72/32.png) [@Rigamarole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rigamarole)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2012, 1:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-what-ways-are-men-discriminated-against/618184/200 "2012-04-11T01:51:39Z")
> [@mister\_nyx](#): > > You’re citing an example of a male dentist refusing to hire women who aren’t conventionally attractive and young as an example of men being discriminated against? > > Wow. Betcha if it came down to it and he was forced to choose between an older/less attractive woman and a man, he’d still choose the woman. Alpha males don’t want any competition in their harems, ya know. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-what-ways-are-men-discriminated-against/618184.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-what-ways-are-men-discriminated-against/618184.md?page=11)