# In what ways are men discriminated against? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [April 8, 2012, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-what-ways-are-men-discriminated-against/618184 "2012-04-08T16:38:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 18
**Author:** ![AqualungBats5th](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/6bbea6/32.png) [@AqualungBats5th](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AqualungBats5th)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2012, 1:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-what-ways-are-men-discriminated-against/618184/341 "2012-04-13T13:09:45Z")
> [@blindboyard](#): > > Everything that’s wrong with feminism in a nutshell: men are to be enslaved and killed, and that’s evidences of bias against women. Way to completely misrepresent what I said. > [@](#): > > The draft in America was instituted by a democratically elected government, in a country with more female voters than male voters. Rather, women were seen as too valuable to be sacrificed in combat, as is a common argument against women in combat today. I’m not sure I’ve heard any modern generals or others argue that women aren’t good enough for combat, it tends to be that they will disrupt unit cohesion or are too valuable to risk. Okay, do you not see how, even using your own arguments, that this is evidence of sexism against women? Being “too valuable to risk” means “too weak to handle combat”. It’s paternalistic. Of course, based on your other posts in this thread, especially where you said: > [@blindboyard](#): > > The Southern Poverty Leadership Conference recently announced that anti-feminism is a terrorist movement, based on a man who set himself on fire to protest against a family court decision. Also, they found an objectionable blog comment. I’m inclined to think you are being intentionally obtuse and selectively ignoring the part of what I’m saying that doesn’t fit with your agenda. Hey everyone [this is the guy](http://www.splcenter.org/get-informed/intelligence-report/browse-all-issues/2012/spring/a-war-on-women) that he thinks the Southern Poverty Law Center is being so unfair to. How course, like he ignores those of us in this thread who have said similar things he is only too happy to ignore how the SPLC says (bolding mine): “ **Some most certainly do have legitimate grievances** , having endured prison, impoverishment or heartrending separations from genuinely loved children.” ---
**Author:** ![ladyfoxfyre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ad7895/32.png) [@ladyfoxfyre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ladyfoxfyre)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2012, 1:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-what-ways-are-men-discriminated-against/618184/342 "2012-04-13T13:25:20Z")
> [@blindboyard](#): > > I’m not sure I’ve heard any modern generals or others argue that women aren’t good enough for combat, it tends to be that they will disrupt unit cohesion or are too valuable to risk. And another thing, obviously you will never hear anyone in the public sphere of the military say this. To say that would be in and of itself damaging to military cohesion. But if you ask the people who work in the military, or military contractors who are former military who agree with the idea that women should still not be eligible for combat positions, the overwhelming opinion is that they do not possess the upper body strength or physical strength in general to keep up with their male counterparts in combat. This is evidenced by the lower physical requirements the military sets for female personnel. “Unit cohesion” is a politically correct way to pretend like they’re just overly concerned for the women in combat, but it doesn’t prevent female soldiers from being attached to combat units currently or being killed in action. It’s the only way they can argue the case in public without overtly saying that they don’t want women in combat because they don’t think they will be able to keep up. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2012, 1:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-what-ways-are-men-discriminated-against/618184/343 "2012-04-13T13:58:32Z")
> [@ladyfoxfyre](#): > > Not because they are better, but because they are thought to be too weak to handle front line combat positions. All those men who got drafted and died. How did that work out for them? ---
**Author:** ![ladyfoxfyre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ad7895/32.png) [@ladyfoxfyre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ladyfoxfyre)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2012, 2:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-what-ways-are-men-discriminated-against/618184/344 "2012-04-13T14:01:51Z")
> [@Ludovic](#): > > All those men who got drafted and died. How did that work out for them? What exactly is your point here? ---
**Author:** ![Trepa\_Mayfield](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/edb3f5/32.png) [@Trepa\_Mayfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trepa_Mayfield)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2012, 2:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-what-ways-are-men-discriminated-against/618184/345 "2012-04-13T14:02:47Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > Clearly that’s another example of girls being seen as too weak and frail to endure physical punishment. > [@Ludovic](#): > > All those men who got drafted and died. How did that work out for them? People: there’s no reason an event can’t be sexist against both genders in different ways. Having a contest to see whether it’s worse for men or women is stupid, and futile. Instead, we should say, “Yes, that is sexist. It’s sexist no matter which way you look at it. It is unquestionably wrong, and we should work to repeal it.” To get bogged down in which gender that act is worse for is folly. ---
**Author:** ![Visorslash](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/ee59a6/32.png) [@Visorslash](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Visorslash)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2012, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-what-ways-are-men-discriminated-against/618184/346 "2012-04-13T14:15:28Z")
> [@blindboyard](#): > > Another example for the OP: physical abuse of children. Firstly [corporal punishment is more commonly administered to male children](http://www.nospank.net/d-hill.htm), sometimes [legally limited to only being used on boys](http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parent-cafe/1290082-should-corporal-punishment-gender-specific.html), which is again true of [the poor and other disadvantaged groups](http://plan-international.org/learnwithoutfear/the-campaign/corporal-punishment), and obviously not girls. > > And, of course, most teachers are female, as are most perpetrators of the physical and psychological abuse and neglect of children. > > The Spanish government has discussed differential rates of income tax, although I’m not aware of them being implemented as of yet despite support from both major parties. Obviously with lower rates for women. The UK has proposed shutting down women’s prisons because they want to not imprison women, which [has happened](http://www.glennsacks.com/enewsletters/enews_12_24_07.htm) in some places. > > Female teachers also tend to award [lower marks](http://www.independent.co.uk/news/education/education-news/female-teachers-accused-of-giving-boys-lower-marks-6943937.html) to boys. Even after the system of education has been [consciously made more female-friendly](http://www.avoiceformen.com/feminism/feminist-governance-feminism/fem-education-down-under/), resulting in the clearl majority of university entrants and those awarded Bachelors and Masters degrees, and as a result those going into the law, medicine and other highly paid professions. Certainly, [as the Guardian reports](http://www.guardian.co.uk/education/2010/jul/04/unemployment-male-graduates), male graduates are more likely to be unemployed. > > I also refer you to the 2006 study by Riach and Rich, examining job applications according to sex. This clearly shows that, with the same CV, women are much more likely to be called in for interviews. This discrimination has always been the case (see EP Thompsons “Making of the English Working Class”, in which he establishes that nineteenth century industrialists went to great lengths to avoid hiring men, to avoid strikes and higher wage demands and so on). This also seems to be the case in [female dominated roles in Australia](http://www.voxeu.org/index.php?q=node/4546). An old physics/math professor and teacher and friend of mine says that the system is biased towards females. (Academically) such as high school, etc. I agree with him on this. ---
**Author:** ![Max\_Torque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e9bcb4/32.png) [@Max\_Torque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_Torque)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2012, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-what-ways-are-men-discriminated-against/618184/347 "2012-04-13T14:32:54Z")
Didn’t read the entire thread, but I doubt this one’s been mentioned before: according to an article I read years ago and cannot find right now, men and women commit parent-child homicides at a roughly equal rate; that is, about 50% of parent-child murders are committed by the mother. However, the rate of criminal convictions of such murders for men is approximately 90% higher than that of women, and when women _are_ convicted, their sentences are approximately 90% lighter than those given to men. As a society, we are weirdly understanding, and even forgiving, of mothers who murder their own children. ---
**Author:** ![blindboyard](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blindboyard/32/2833_2.png) [@blindboyard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blindboyard)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2012, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-what-ways-are-men-discriminated-against/618184/348 "2012-04-13T14:53:03Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > Clearly that’s another example of girls being seen as too weak and frail to endure physical punishment. Of course. Just like rape is mostly against women because men are seen as less sexually desirable. Damn those rapists and their bias against men. And, of course, those who beat young boys because of their bias against women. And if only men were believed incapable of swimming more men might have survived the Titanic, presumably. ---
**Author:** ![blindboyard](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blindboyard/32/2833_2.png) [@blindboyard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blindboyard)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2012, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-what-ways-are-men-discriminated-against/618184/349 "2012-04-13T14:54:29Z")
> [@AqualungBats5th](#): > > Hey everyone [this is the guy](http://www.splcenter.org/get-informed/intelligence-report/browse-all-issues/2012/spring/a-war-on-women) that he thinks the Southern Poverty Law Center is being so unfair to. Yeah, I think it’s unfair to call someone a terrorist who has demonstrably committed no acts of terrorism. ---
**Author:** ![rogerbox](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/76d3ee/32.png) [@rogerbox](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rogerbox)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2012, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-what-ways-are-men-discriminated-against/618184/350 "2012-04-13T15:12:29Z")
> [@Trepa\_Mayfield](#): > > To get bogged down in which gender that act is worse for is folly. To not readily admit that the draft is worse for men displays a lack of honesty I would think since women obviously have a choice to join any branch of the military and men don’t. Men face a “choice” between registering for the draft and jail, I’m not seeing the downside for women here. ---
**Author:** ![ladyfoxfyre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ad7895/32.png) [@ladyfoxfyre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ladyfoxfyre)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2012, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-what-ways-are-men-discriminated-against/618184/351 "2012-04-13T15:13:12Z")
> [@blindboyard](#): > > Yeah, I think it’s unfair to call someone a terrorist who has demonstrably committed no acts of terrorism. ““Twenty-five years ago,” he wrote, “the federal government declared war on men. It is time to see how committed they are to their cause. It is time, boys, to give them a taste of war.” Calling for all-out insurrection, he offered tips on making Molotov cocktails and urged his readers to use them against courthouses and police stations. “There will be some casualties in this war,” he predicted. “Some killed, some wounded, some captured. Some of them will be theirs. Some of the casualties will be ours.”” ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2012, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-what-ways-are-men-discriminated-against/618184/352 "2012-04-13T15:15:57Z")
> [@rogerbox](#): > > To not readily admit that the draft is worse for men displays a lack of honesty I would think since women obviously have a choice to join any branch of the military and men don’t. Men face a “choice” between registering for the draft and jail, I’m not seeing the downside for women here. Women don’t have the choice to join any branch of the military. Well, they do, but they are barred from about half of all military jobs (and up to 80% depending on the service). ---
**Author:** ![ladyfoxfyre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ad7895/32.png) [@ladyfoxfyre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ladyfoxfyre)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2012, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-what-ways-are-men-discriminated-against/618184/353 "2012-04-13T15:18:10Z")
> [@rogerbox](#): > > To not readily admit that the draft is worse for men displays a lack of honesty I would think since women obviously have a choice to join any branch of the military and men don’t. Men face a “choice” between registering for the draft and jail, I’m not seeing the downside for women here. Listen, nobody is arguing that it’s not worse to die than to not die. But that doesn’t change the fact that the motivations behind why women aren’t included in the draft are based in sexist prejudices, namely that women can’t cut it in the battlefield. And the fact that we only recently were able to join any branch of the military at all shows that the lack of honesty to be yours. Nobody wants to be drafted, period. Dying in war sucks. The question is not “is it worse to die in a war against your will or worse to be prevented from dying in a war”. You think the draft is prejudicial against men, great. But you are ignoring the entire argument for WHY WOMEN AREN’T ALLOWED TO BE DRAFTED IN THE FIRST PLACE. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2012, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-what-ways-are-men-discriminated-against/618184/354 "2012-04-13T15:54:07Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > Clearly that’s another example of girls being seen as too weak and frail to endure physical punishment. > [@blindboyard](#): > > Of course. Just like rape is mostly against women because men are seen as less sexually desirable. Damn those rapists and their bias against men. And, of course, those who beat young boys because of their bias against women. > > And if only men were believed incapable of swimming more men might have survived the Titanic, presumably. This thread has done my head in. I can’t tell how facetious either of these posts really are anymore, and I wrote one of them. ---
**Author:** ![AqualungBats5th](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/6bbea6/32.png) [@AqualungBats5th](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AqualungBats5th)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2012, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-what-ways-are-men-discriminated-against/618184/355 "2012-04-13T16:15:52Z")
> [@ladyfoxfyre](#): > > ““Twenty-five years ago,” he wrote, “the federal government declared war on men. It is time to see how committed they are to their cause. It is time, boys, to give them a taste of war.” Calling for all-out insurrection, he offered tips on making Molotov cocktails and urged his readers to use them against courthouses and police stations. “There will be some casualties in this war,” he predicted. “Some killed, some wounded, some captured. Some of them will be theirs. Some of the casualties will be ours.”” Yeah, this. And seriously, everyone, read the link I posted. The hate and vitriol that is so inherent in so much of the men’s right movement is why some of us are hair trigger in threads like this. It’s why I am. If you’re interested in fathers being treated equally in court, and ending the perception of men as sexual predators of minors, both of which I whole-heartedly agree are noble goals, these are not the men to align yourselves with. ---
**Author:** ![DiosaBellissima](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a8b319/32.png) [@DiosaBellissima](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DiosaBellissima)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2012, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-what-ways-are-men-discriminated-against/618184/356 "2012-04-13T16:42:04Z")
> [@blindboyard](#): > > Of course. Just like rape is mostly against women because men are seen as less sexually desirable. Damn those rapists and their bias against men. And, of course, those who beat young boys because of their bias against women. > > And if only men were believed incapable of swimming more men might have survived the Titanic, presumably. You seriously don’t get it. At all. I’m book marking this post the next time we have ye olde semi annual “The Dope Isn’t Sexist, GUIZ!!!” thread, because _whoo boy_! And on that note, I’m bowing out of this nonsense. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2012, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-what-ways-are-men-discriminated-against/618184/357 "2012-04-13T16:51:34Z")
> [@AqualungBats5th](#): > > The hate and vitriol that is so inherent in so much of the men’s right movement is why some of us are hair trigger in threads like this. It’s why I am. > > If you’re interested in fathers being treated equally in court, and ending the perception of men as sexual predators of minors, both of which I whole-heartedly agree are noble goals, these are not the men to align yourselves with. Did you mean to post this in the “discuss the members and motivations of current men’s rights organizations” thread? ---
**Author:** ![ladyfoxfyre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ad7895/32.png) [@ladyfoxfyre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ladyfoxfyre)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2012, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-what-ways-are-men-discriminated-against/618184/358 "2012-04-13T16:56:22Z")
> [@Ludovic](#): > > Did you mean to post this in the “discuss the members and motivations of current men’s rights organizations” thread? You know, people are capable of having multiple points of discussion within the same thread. Maybe when you come back to read this post, you could try bringing some worthwhile goddamned content for once. ---
**Author:** ![blindboyard](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blindboyard/32/2833_2.png) [@blindboyard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blindboyard)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2012, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-what-ways-are-men-discriminated-against/618184/359 "2012-04-13T17:41:03Z")
> [@ladyfoxfyre](#): > > ““Twenty-five years ago,” he wrote, “the federal government declared war on men. It is time to see how committed they are to their cause. It is time, boys, to give them a taste of war.” Calling for all-out insurrection, he offered tips on making Molotov cocktails and urged his readers to use them against courthouses and police stations. “There will be some casualties in this war,” he predicted. “Some killed, some wounded, some captured. Some of them will be theirs. Some of the casualties will be ours.”” But what he didn’t do, a fact you keep trying to dodge, is actually commit any acts of terrorism, violence, arson, and so on. He set fire to himself, in the manner of a Buddhist monk protesting the Vietnam war, say. He did it on the steps of a courthouse, whereas if he was a terrorist I expect he would have set fire to the courthouse rather than himself. On the draft front, we don’t have that where I’m from, but other countries still have active conscription for national service programmes. Norway does, but doesn’t conscript women. Switzerland does, and although women may volunteer for any position they aren’t conscripted. Even Israel, famous for its conscription and female combat troops, only conscripts women for a year less than men. On the lives of which sex are considered to have more value, I direct towards [this study](http://nzmera.orconhosting.net.nz/boycecnt.html). ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2012, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-what-ways-are-men-discriminated-against/618184/360 "2012-04-13T17:43:01Z")
> [@Martini\_Enfield](#): > > Is it an assertation that _really_ needs supporting, though? Personally I would consider it common knowledge that there are certain jobs men will, at best, be highly unlikely to get if there’s a female candidate who’s even close to similarly qualified. But the issue is not whether it _ever_ happens, but whether it constitutes some sort of widespread phenomenon that requires a systematic response. Look, the world is a big and weird enough place that we can find examples of almost any bizarre and stupid and offensive behavior. I’ve already conceded, right in this very thread, that there is some evidence that male dental hygienists might encounter some problems breaking into the profession. But the evidence i found also suggested that the problem manifests itself more as generalized attitudes than as active employment discrimination, and also that the little discrimination that does exist is rapidly receding. What that reading also suggests is that generalized beliefs about whether a man is likely to be hired may not actually be reflected in the hiring process. And that’s what i’m talking about in this thread, For example, one person says: > [@Mijin](#): > > I gave an example of applying for a medical job and being told (off the record) that I was unlikely to get it because of my gender. I don’t know about whether the reason for that is because they think we’re “all secretly perves”, but the point is there have been examples in this thread for the kind of job that **Martini Enfield** is talking about. I’d be interested to know who told him this. Because, in the articles i cited earlier about dental hygienists, there were quite a few men in the profession who were told by career counselors and other advisers that they would be unlikely to get jobs in the field, yet they went into the field anyway and still managed to get jobs. The fact that some people _believe_ something doesn’t always mean that it will come to pass; the fact that some people expect discrimination doesn’t mean it will actually happen. More importantly, i was actually responding to **Shagnasty** ’s (typically) asinine assertion that discrimination was somehow about men being considered to be “all secretly perves.” If there is discrimination against men in some areas of employment—and i believe that there is—it is mainly a result of broader ideas about socially acceptable gender roles, which men themselves have been instrumental in constructing, than about some idea of men as perverts. That is the part of his assertion that i was saying had absolutely no support. Furthermore, in (typically) weaselly fashion, **Shagnasty** uses the passive voice as a way of implying a broad societal phenomoenon that he has offered no evidence for: > [@Shagnasty](#): > > What about men who **are deemed** inappropriate for some jobs like elementary school teachers or some types of medical jobs because we are all secretly perves or something? Are deemed by whom? How widespread is this belief (if it exists at all)? How hard is it, actually, for a man to get hired as an elementary school teacher? What this also completely (and unsurprisingly, given the poster) fails to acknowledge is that the imbalance in elementary school teaching is not simply a product of job discrimination. As [this article](http://www.denverpost.com/news/ci_17323832) notes: > [@](#): > > Throughout the U.S., men traditionally have shied away from the elementary grades — for reasons ranging from low pay and low status to stereotypes that cast them as less nurturing than their female counterparts and the fear of accusations of inappropriate behavior. If men have, themselves, “shied away” from this particular profession, how do we know that the lack of men in elementary schools is the result of job discrimination? If you have a bunch of openings for elementary teachers, and 85-90 percent of your applicants are women, isn’t it likely that women will make up the majority of your hires? And this sex imbalance at the level of career choice persists. At my university, i teach a class that is a required class for anyone who is studying to be an elementary or middle school teacher. The vast majority of these education majors are women. According to the article i just cited, about 1 in 6 elementary school teachers in Colorado are men, and i’d say that this proportion is pretty close to the make-up of the elementary education majors in my classes. I’m not saying that there’s _never_ any discrimination against men who apply for work as elementary school teachers. I’m sure there is. Even though i don’t have any examples or statistics to hand, i’m willing to concede, for the sake of this debate, that such discrimination does happen in some individual cases. But you can’t simply look at the numbers and conclude discrimination, and you shouldn’t simply cry “discrimination” while willfully ignoring all the other factors that might militate against a larger number of men in the profession. And that’s what simplistic “thinkers” like **Shagnasty** have been doing in this thread. For what it’s worth, the United States District Court in Chicago (upheld by the US Court of Appeals, 7th Circuit, 1988) recognized the same principles in deciding one of the most famous cases of gender discrimination in American legal history, the EEOC v. Sears Roebuck case. In that case, the EEOC took Sears to court alleging a pattern of discrimination against women, because women were disproportionately found in lower-paying jobs at Sears, and were very rarely found in the higher-paying commission sales jobs. One of Sears’ key arguments in the case was that you can’t simply infer discrimination by looking at the number of men and women in each job. Sears argued that women were less well represented in commission sales job because women were less likely than men to actually seek out and apply for those jobs. Sears argued that, despite the company’s own affirmative action policies, women simply didn’t pursue commission sales positions in the same numbers as men. While the case was far more complicated than this mini summary could ever suggest, this issue of women’s interest in the work itself was at the heart of the case and, combined with a lack of actual women complainants, caused the court to rule in Sears’ favor. Now, just because the court found for Sears doesn’t mean that there was no discrimination going on. It’s highly possible that some women did apply for commission sales jobs at Sears and were turned down by managers who thought that women were no good for these higher-pressure jobs. It’s also possible that some managers discouraged women from applying in the first place, for similar gender-related reasons. But disparities in numbers aren’t always the result of discrimination, or only of discrimination, and an honest and comprehensive attempt to deal with the issue will recognize this, rather than making stupid and simplistic passive-voice assertions that some people “are deemed inappropriate” for certain jobs. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-what-ways-are-men-discriminated-against/618184.md?page=17) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-what-ways-are-men-discriminated-against/618184.md?page=19)