# In Which a Terrible Abuse is Prevented by Alert Servants of the Corporation **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 12, 2012, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-a-terrible-abuse-is-prevented-by-alert-servants-of-the-corporation/624922 "2012-06-12T15:19:43Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Eonwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eonwe/32/240_2.png) [@Eonwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eonwe)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2012, 2:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-a-terrible-abuse-is-prevented-by-alert-servants-of-the-corporation/624922/21 "2012-06-13T02:40:39Z")
> [@Absolute](#): > > I don’t get paid overtime. You got paid for working 40.5 hours this week despite working only 32.5 and you are whining that you can’t get paid overtime for that remaining 0.5? Give a break. Ah, the, “my life sucks more than yours, so shut up” argument! I love that one! ---
**Author:** ![Sailboat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sailboat/32/461_2.png) [@Sailboat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sailboat)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2012, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-a-terrible-abuse-is-prevented-by-alert-servants-of-the-corporation/624922/22 "2012-06-13T02:50:09Z")
> [@Absolute](#): > > I don’t get paid overtime. You got paid for working 40.5 hours this week despite working only 32.5 and you are whining that you can’t get paid overtime for that remaining 0.5? Give a break. All right, I’ll respond to this, since it keeps coming up. WHY don’t you get paid overtime? Is it because you’re not ambitious? Is it because you’re stupid? Or is it because your salaried compensation package is _better than_ an hourly wage, so _you’re still coming out ahead_, but nevertheless _choosing to act all hurt about someone who makes less money_ wanting to get paid? And let’s be clear: I got the time off for Memorial Day not because I’m lazy. Right? It’s a **god-damned national holiday** to honor those who served in the military and paid the ultimate price. In fact, I’m _not allowed_ to charge time on Memorial Day. It’s not my decision – the holiday itself is a consensus decision by the citizens of the United States, and the fact that I can’t charge time on it is a corporate rule every bit as enforced as the one that cost me the OT. _Tens of millions of people_ got off that day – it’s not like I called in sick to party. I refuse to take any blame for “only” working _the entire part of the week I was allowed to_, PLUS more time on short notice to make up for _someone else’s_ failure. Sure, I understand that “the rules” are written so that the holiday,\* which takes the place of work\* and _which I can’t control_, doesn’t actually “count” as work for the purpose of constituting a full 40-hour week. But what purpose does that rule serve, objectively, _other than_ knocking overtime down to regular time in a week with a holiday? It’s just a way for the corporation to save a few bucks. ---
**Author:** ![Sailboat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sailboat/32/461_2.png) [@Sailboat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sailboat)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2012, 2:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-a-terrible-abuse-is-prevented-by-alert-servants-of-the-corporation/624922/23 "2012-06-13T02:54:22Z")
And re: > [@Absolute](#): > > and you are whining I rather thought that saying “good shot, chaps!” was ironic, if slightly pained, amusement, not whining. But maybe where you are, two-year-old children are always bursting into “good shot, chaps!” when they don’t get what they want? ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2012, 2:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-a-terrible-abuse-is-prevented-by-alert-servants-of-the-corporation/624922/24 "2012-06-13T02:56:18Z")
Jesus. As has been explained quite clearly, payroll systems are automated and will catch these things automatically. It is company policy and it some cases local law to do things that way. The payroll department gets audited and the payroll accountants will get dinged for letting errors through. Those of you who are calling this petty are showing remarkable ignorance on how the real world works. It may seem silly but they really can’t just let it go. ---
**Author:** ![AncientHumanoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ancienthumanoid/32/278_2.png) [@AncientHumanoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AncientHumanoid)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2012, 2:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-a-terrible-abuse-is-prevented-by-alert-servants-of-the-corporation/624922/25 "2012-06-13T02:56:39Z")
> [@Sailboat](#): > > But maybe where you are, two-year-old children are always bursting into “good shot, chaps!” when they don’t get what they want? Not at Costco! ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2012, 3:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-a-terrible-abuse-is-prevented-by-alert-servants-of-the-corporation/624922/26 "2012-06-13T03:12:27Z")
Unless you’re a Federal (or in some cases, state) employee, you do not have any legal right to a paid holiday on National Holiday days. Companies generally offer people these days off to be competitive in benefits with other companies, but they have no legal requirement to do so. I worked at a hospital, which was a 365/24/7 business, and it did not and literally could not declare itself closed for a holiday and send everyone home with pay. So, my hospital had NO paid holidays, and made up for it in other ways. Mostly it was by increasing the amount of annual leave of the employees. In my first year of employment there, I had 20 days paid leave, instead of a more typical 10. It was also their policy that if the hospital did insist you work on a Federal holiday, they paid you time and a half for it, even if you had other time off during the same pay period. OTOH, most of the non-critical (non-medical) departments like the business office and HR did close that day, and while the employees were paid for the time, they also were forced to use up a day of their leave. So we weren’t entirely in control of how and when our leave time was used. Also, if you took a personal day off for any other reason, but worked extra hours some other day, you still wouldn’t earn OT unless it extra hours in the rest of the week added up to more than the 8 you took off. Which I think is nearly universal – there aren’t a whole lot of jobs out there that pay overtime for every quarter hour you work over 8 on any given day. ---
**Author:** ![Brewah](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/53a042/32.png) [@Brewah](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brewah)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2012, 3:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-a-terrible-abuse-is-prevented-by-alert-servants-of-the-corporation/624922/27 "2012-06-13T03:12:59Z")
Another payroll manager chiming in. The OT rule depends on the state you are working in. Some require it on hours worked over 40 in a week while in others it’s anything over 8 in a day. So, where you at? ---
**Author:** ![Chessic\_Sense](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7c8e57/32.png) [@Chessic\_Sense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chessic_Sense)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2012, 3:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-a-terrible-abuse-is-prevented-by-alert-servants-of-the-corporation/624922/28 "2012-06-13T03:14:36Z")
> [@Sailboat](#): > > but nevertheless _choosing to act all hurt about someone who makes less money_ wanting to get paid?..the one that cost me the OT. …but you didn’t work any overtime. And you _did_ get paid for the half hour. You worked 32.5 hours and got paid for 40.5 hours, yet you’re bitching about it. I don’t get it. If you’re that butt-hurt about it, just bill them for 45 minutes or if you really wanna stick it to 'em, bill for 30 minutes but cut out of there after only 20! :eek: ---
**Author:** ![Brewah](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/53a042/32.png) [@Brewah](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brewah)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2012, 3:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-a-terrible-abuse-is-prevented-by-alert-servants-of-the-corporation/624922/29 "2012-06-13T03:19:06Z")
**Boyo Jim** , I believe the time and a half your hospital paid for working holidays is also a state/federal law, but I would have to research to be sure. I know I have seen it work that way in every collective bargaining agreement I have looked at. ---
**Author:** ![doreen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/858c86/32.png) [@doreen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doreen)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2012, 4:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-a-terrible-abuse-is-prevented-by-alert-servants-of-the-corporation/624922/30 "2012-06-13T04:06:26Z")
> [@Brewah](#): > > **Boyo Jim** , I believe the time and a half your hospital paid for working holidays is also a state/federal law, but I would have to research to be sure. I know I have seen it work that way in every collective bargaining agreement I have looked at. It probably is in every collective bargaining agreement- but not every hourly employee has a collective bargaining agreement. Some states may require time-and-a-half for legal holidays, but the Feds don’t. And as for the argument that not counting paid holidays as hours worked just saves the company a few bucks- that’s true. Companies that close on a holiday and don’t pay their hourly employees for the day save even more. Some companies do exactly what the law requires and some do more , whether of their own volition or because of a collective bargaining agreement. ---
**Author:** ![Rachellelogram](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rachellelogram/32/8689_2.png) [@Rachellelogram](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rachellelogram)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2012, 5:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-a-terrible-abuse-is-prevented-by-alert-servants-of-the-corporation/624922/31 "2012-06-13T05:01:58Z")
If your employer had invested in a better timekeeping system, this would all be calculated automatically. My employer’s system automatically calculates whether overtime is paid at 1x or 1.5x depending on how many hours we have in the “Work” category vs non-work fields like “PTO” or “Jury Duty” or “Holiday.” If there are 40 or fewer hours in the “work” category, then OT is calculated at 1x. If there are more than 40 hours in the “work” category, it’s calculated at 1.5x. All we employees have to do is type in our clock in/out times and select the proper category. It’s magic! ---
**Author:** ![Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/46a35a/32.png) [@Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tim_T-Bonham.net)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2012, 6:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-a-terrible-abuse-is-prevented-by-alert-servants-of-the-corporation/624922/32 "2012-06-13T06:55:19Z")
> [@Sailboat](#): > > It’s the same amount of time as it would be in any other week, but because they had to give me a day off (stupid servicepeople-dying-in-wars, what do THEY have against the business owner???) their own rules exempt them from having to pay me time-and-a-half! You see, holidays are _paid_ like work, but because we’re not actually suffering, they don’t count as “real” work. I once worked at a company that pulled this. Also, if they shut down Wednesday & Thursday (because management screwed up and ran out of raw materials), then had people work a double shift on Friday, they said no overtime for that because they hadn’t worked 40 hours of regular time that week. You can be sure both of these situations were covered, in explicit detail, in the next contract negotiations! ---
**Author:** ![Wheelz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wheelz/32/5718_2.png) [@Wheelz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wheelz)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2012, 1:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-a-terrible-abuse-is-prevented-by-alert-servants-of-the-corporation/624922/33 "2012-06-13T13:13:38Z")
At one company I worked for (union shop) time-and-a-half kicked in after 8 hours on any given day, regardless of what happened the rest of the week. Also, any time worked on Saturday or Sunday was automatically OT pay, again regardless of the rest of the week. Sounds nice, but on the other hand it was a hard, sweaty, backbreaking manual labor job. My last two employers have had the same policy as the OP’s: OT only kicks in after 40 real-time worked hours, so I tend not to accept extra time on holiday weeks. But I make more money in general than I ever used to, and conditions are a hell of a lot better than that old steel foundry. Life is a series of trade-offs, I guess. ---
**Author:** ![Eonwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eonwe/32/240_2.png) [@Eonwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eonwe)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2012, 1:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-a-terrible-abuse-is-prevented-by-alert-servants-of-the-corporation/624922/34 "2012-06-13T13:43:26Z")
> [@t-bonham@scc.net](#): > > I once worked at a company that pulled this. > > Also, if they shut down Wednesday & Thursday (because management screwed up and ran out of raw materials), then had people work a double shift on Friday, they said no overtime for that because they hadn’t worked 40 hours of regular time that week. > > You can be sure both of these situations were covered, in explicit detail, in the next contract negotiations! This is an extreme example of what (I think) is the issue that the OP has. If the office is officially closed (for whatever reason), and then they have you work after hours, extending your work day later in the week, well, then that’s kind of a shitty way to give someone a day off. “No one has to work on Monday! Oh, and by the way, you all have to work a double on Tuesday to make up for it. Enjoy your vacation!” Granted, 1/2 hour is probably not a big deal, but it’s still a shitty way to treat an employee who has to extend his hours beyond his normal shift, particularly when the boss said he would earn overtime. ---
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2012, 5:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-a-terrible-abuse-is-prevented-by-alert-servants-of-the-corporation/624922/35 "2012-06-20T05:51:00Z")
> [@Sailboat](#): > > I rather thought that saying “good shot, chaps!” was ironic, if slightly pained, amusement, not whining. But maybe where you are, two-year-old children are always bursting into “good shot, chaps!” when they don’t get what they want? _Whining_ these days can mean just about any sort of complaint or objection rather than just something uttered in the “whiny” voice of a child. This is a development in the language that saddens me, because given the original meaning of the word it implies disparagement of the complainer as well as the complaint. However, I don’t mean to imply that this is how people necessarily mean it. ---
**Author:** ![Saltire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saltire/32/553_2.png) [@Saltire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saltire)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2012, 7:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-a-terrible-abuse-is-prevented-by-alert-servants-of-the-corporation/624922/36 "2012-06-20T07:05:09Z")
> [@gotpasswords](#): > > Here, it’s state labor law. OT is only payable for hours actually worked, so if I had worked on Memorial Day, for example, I’d get eight hours of straight time for Monday, plus the 32 hours for Tuesday - Friday and 8 hours holiday pay, all at the regular rate. No OT rate for any of it. Does the state really have laws that keep employers from paying above the minimums? I’ve heard it from my payroll managers too, but I don’t believe it. I think the law says they must pay time and a half at certain times, but payroll people keep claiming that the law prevents them from paying it, even if they wanted to. In other words, they chose to be petty here, and try to blame it on law. ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2012, 7:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-a-terrible-abuse-is-prevented-by-alert-servants-of-the-corporation/624922/37 "2012-06-20T07:20:56Z")
Story my father tells of revenge on petty cost auditing is this: guy goes on a small business trip and due to various problems that are not his fault it all goes wrong and he loses his umbrella. So he claims it as an expense but it is knocked back by the accounts department who say it’s his fault for losing the umbrella. He argues but gets nowhere. Then the same guy goes on a huge business trip to several different countries over several months. He comes back, dumps an expense report and a stack of receipts a foot high on the desk of the offending accounts department guy. On top he leaves a note: "_Now see if you can find that damned umbrella!_ ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2012, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-a-terrible-abuse-is-prevented-by-alert-servants-of-the-corporation/624922/38 "2012-06-20T14:24:13Z")
> [@Saltire](#): > > In other words, they chose to be petty here, and try to blame it on law. No. Please read the thread again. The accountants must follow company policy. Anyone who has even the most basic understanding of how corporations work knows that audits are serious business. If the independent auditors find an anomaly, they will have to dig deeper and it’s a pain in the ass for all involved. ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2012, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-a-terrible-abuse-is-prevented-by-alert-servants-of-the-corporation/624922/39 "2012-06-20T14:25:22Z")
> [@Princhester](#): > > Story my father tells of revenge on petty cost auditing is this: guy goes on a small business trip and due to various problems that are not his fault it all goes wrong and he loses his umbrella. So he claims it as an expense but it is knocked back by the accounts department who say it’s his fault for losing the umbrella. He argues but gets nowhere. > > Then the same guy goes on a huge business trip to several different countries over several months. He comes back, dumps an expense report and a stack of receipts a foot high on the desk of the offending accounts department guy. On top he leaves a note: > > "_Now see if you can find that damned umbrella!_ That story has been floating around literally for decades. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2012, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-a-terrible-abuse-is-prevented-by-alert-servants-of-the-corporation/624922/40 "2012-06-20T15:16:50Z")
> [@Sailboat](#): > > It’s the same amount of time as it would be in any other week, but because they had to give me a day off (stupid servicepeople-dying-in-wars, what do THEY have against the business owner???) their own rules exempt them from having to pay me time-and-a-half! You see, holidays are _paid_ like work, but because we’re not actually suffering, they don’t count as “real” work. Hey, the boss has to find some way to compensate for the fact that people have found a poor excuse to pick his pocket every last Monday in May. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-a-terrible-abuse-is-prevented-by-alert-servants-of-the-corporation/624922.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-a-terrible-abuse-is-prevented-by-alert-servants-of-the-corporation/624922.md?page=3)