# In which Diogenes threatens to kill children **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 12, 2003, 6:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-diogenes-threatens-to-kill-children/201157 "2003-09-12T06:36:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2003, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-diogenes-threatens-to-kill-children/201157/61 "2003-09-12T17:53:23Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by LaurAnge \* > \*\*It never fails to amaze me how consideration for others has totally fallen to the side. > > If someone were to ask me to make a minor change in my life to drastically improve their quality of life, I would definitely agree. > > I think the problem isn’t the kids and parents who so many of you have accused of overprotection and neurosis or whatever, the problem is the deeply selfish people who can’t fathom helping anyone else. > > I don’t mean for this to come off as an attack on anyone, I really don’t, but I do think this is a prime example of the “only I matter” mentality everyone has nowadays. \*\* Really? You don’t think it’s a wee bit selfish for the parents of a kid with peanut allergies to ask **2,000** other people to change for that one person? Surely **Sua** ’s post is right on target here. You’re certainly right that it would be nice to respond positively to a request to make a minor change in order to drastically improve someone else’s life, but exactly how many such requests should we respond to? I mean, first it’s peanuts, then it might be latex, then something else. Death by a thousand cuts, until the school becomes a hermetically-sealed chamber where no-one is even allowed to talk to anyone else. Hyperbole? Sure. But do you get my point? > [@](#): > > _Originally posted by Diogenes the Cynic_ > **There is no such thing as second hand peanut butter.** You haven’t seen the jar at the back of my fridge. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Helen\_s\_Eidolon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Helen\_s\_Eidolon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Helen_s_Eidolon)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2003, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-diogenes-threatens-to-kill-children/201157/62 "2003-09-12T17:55:57Z")
I do see your point, **mhendo** , and I think there is definitely room for debate. It’s not a huge honking obvious line, to me. But I think the attitudes expressed in this thread (ie. “You’ll get my peanut butter when you take it from my cold dead hands”) do not indicate a willingness to work towards a beneficial environment for all. ---
**Author:** ![tiny\_ham](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a183cd/32.png) [@tiny\_ham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tiny_ham)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2003, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-diogenes-threatens-to-kill-children/201157/63 "2003-09-12T17:56:07Z")
YOU KEEP PEANUT BUTTER IN THE FRIDGE? TALK ABOUT A FUCKIN’ FREAK 😃 ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2003, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-diogenes-threatens-to-kill-children/201157/64 "2003-09-12T18:01:48Z")
> [@](#): > > I think the problem isn’t the kids and parents who so many of you have accused of overprotection and neurosis or whatever, the problem is the deeply selfish people who can’t fathom helping anyone else. > > I don’t mean for this to come off as an attack on anyone, I really don’t, but I do think this is a prime example of the “only I matter” mentality everyone has nowadays. Well, I’m not sure you’re being fair. Yes, we should definitely be able to empathize with allergy sufferers and to make accomodations for them, but there are limits. Should all of society abandon peanuts as a food source because a few people cannot tolerate them? If I knew a guest in my house had a peanut allergy, I’d do my best to find peanut-free food to serve (harder than you might realize because peanuts and peanut oil are often hidden ingredients in many prepared foods), but I’m not going to give up satays and kung pao chicken for the rest of my life merely because I might casually breathe on an allergy sufferer on the Metro. ---
**Author:** ![Bippy\_the\_Beardless](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ac8455/32.png) [@Bippy\_the\_Beardless](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bippy_the_Beardless)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2003, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-diogenes-threatens-to-kill-children/201157/65 "2003-09-12T18:07:16Z")
What disturbs me about this and the other thread, is that I don’t believe the school is requesting this action in order to help the penut allegy sufferer. I believe they are doing this in order to protect themselves from a possible law suit. The previllence of peanuts in unsussoected foods (peanut oil used in Chinese cooking for instance) is such that the only way to truly protect someone with such extreme penut allegy that a touch can be fatal, would be to provide special penut free places for them and fellow sufferers to be schooled. Though knowledge of nut allegies has spread, it is still possible to get hair and skin products that contain nut oils, and it would be impossible to insulate an individual from all such possible contact without restricting them to special nut free areas. ---
**Author:** ![Helen\_s\_Eidolon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Helen\_s\_Eidolon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Helen_s_Eidolon)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2003, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-diogenes-threatens-to-kill-children/201157/66 "2003-09-12T18:07:21Z")
**gobear** , as I said to **mhendo** , no I don’t think everyone should have to give up peanuts all the time. I personally think that not bring peanut butter or peanut products to school isn’t such a huge sacrifice. Note, they aren’t saying that children can no longer eat peanut butter. They can. Anywhere but school. As you said, there ARE limits. There are reasonable extents to which we should go to accomodate people, and not beyond that. But I think that there is expressed here an unwillingness to accomodate at all. ---
**Author:** ![elf6c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c57346/32.png) [@elf6c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elf6c)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2003, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-diogenes-threatens-to-kill-children/201157/67 "2003-09-12T18:08:34Z")
Loved that the OP thought that the way over-the-top hyperbolic statement was a real threat, then proceded to do the same exact thing against **DtC** at the end of the first post. Methinks someone needs to review the stickies at the top of the Pit main page if they think that such statements are as good as a real threat. Banning all peanut products from the school is not a reasonable accomidation, IMHO. ---
**Author:** ![tiny\_ham](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a183cd/32.png) [@tiny\_ham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tiny_ham)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2003, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-diogenes-threatens-to-kill-children/201157/68 "2003-09-12T18:11:27Z")
Laurange, I may be able to see your point if these schools were saying “Stuff it, sicky, we’re serving naught but peanut products and you can starve”…but they’re not. Jimmy, who sits fifteen tables away during a DIFFERENT lunch period and doesn’t even KNOW the sick student, for instance, is being told he can’t have his favorite sandwich for lunch because there’s a 4 in 54,000,000 chance that one allergic student may breathe in a stray particle. It seems to me that it’s the parents of the ALLERGIC STUDENT who have the “only I matter” attitude, which I imagine is easy for parents to fall into. When I have kids I"m sure I’ll want the world to fall in line to make life perfect for her, but I’m also aware that I RARELY get what I want. ---
**Author:** ![Balle\_M](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/13edae/32.png) [@Balle\_M](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Balle_M)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2003, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-diogenes-threatens-to-kill-children/201157/69 "2003-09-12T18:11:32Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by emarkp \* > \*\*In [this thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=210264), the issues of peanut allergies and schools’ responsibilities related to them are discussed. Point and counterpoint are made. Views are shared, etc. > > Your threat is the same as if you told me you’d put your hands around her throat to strangle her yourself. Tell me how you’d feel when your daughter came home from school to tell you “I killed my classmate today”. Would you jump for joy because you’d managed to thin the gene pool? Would you congratulate your daughter for a job well done? > > Let me tell you, if this happened to my daughter, I would not rest until the barbituates were in your veins as you were strapped down to the table waiting for your lungs to stop working and your last breath to escape your murderous lips. (Of course, that’s here in California. Out there in MN I guess the best I could hope for is life without parole and that another lifer might decide he doesn’t like child-killers.) \*\* Thanks for not getting melodramatic or anything… Sheesh… ---
**Author:** ![Binarydrone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/3da27b/32.png) [@Binarydrone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Binarydrone)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2003, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-diogenes-threatens-to-kill-children/201157/70 "2003-09-12T18:13:28Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by LaurAnge \* > \*\*It never fails to amaze me how consideration for others has totally fallen to the side. > > If someone were to ask me to make a minor change in my life to drastically improve their quality of life, I would definitely agree. > > I think the problem isn’t the kids and parents who so many of you have accused of overprotection and neurosis or whatever, the problem is the deeply selfish people who can’t fathom helping anyone else. > > I don’t mean for this to come off as an attack on anyone, I really don’t, but I do think this is a prime example of the “only I matter” mentality everyone has nowadays. \*\* To be honest, this is something that I have struggled with a bit. I had even posted a thread about it a while ago. My problem comes from wondering at what point “reasonable” accommodation becomes, well, unreasonable. The spirit of reasonable accommodation, to me, is all about expanding choice. The person in the wheelchair can now choose to go to the movies, or even down the sidewalk to get some air. The hearing impaired person may choose to watch TV because most programs are closed-captioned. What makes these accommodations work is that they do not have the side effect of limiting the choices of others. I can just as easily go in to a building that has a ramp and I can one with stairs. You see the difference. They are a reasonable accommodation because they do not impact the people that do not need them. In the specific case of this school, I think that what it comes to is that the State has no place banning a type of food from the school for the sake of one child. What I think was really lost here is that we have come to a point in our society where they felt that they had to do so. Indeed, not very long ago this would have been handled at the community level. I.e. a letter goes out to the parents explaining the situation and the parents stop using peanut butter because they are kind and were asked to do so (not told to). Perhaps there is one parent that is a hold out, but this is also dealt with at a community level. Pity. ---
**Author:** ![coyasicanbe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/bcef8e/32.png) [@coyasicanbe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/coyasicanbe)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2003, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-diogenes-threatens-to-kill-children/201157/71 "2003-09-12T18:16:08Z")
Well, you can agree or disagree with Diogenes position, but I don’t see how you can argue the pitting. Calling kids with peanut allergies “frail little freaks” sounds like a good reason to pit someone to me. ---
**Author:** ![tiny\_ham](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a183cd/32.png) [@tiny\_ham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tiny_ham)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2003, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-diogenes-threatens-to-kill-children/201157/72 "2003-09-12T18:17:49Z")
Of course, Diogenes apologized for that. ---
**Author:** ![coyasicanbe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/bcef8e/32.png) [@coyasicanbe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/coyasicanbe)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2003, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-diogenes-threatens-to-kill-children/201157/73 "2003-09-12T18:34:44Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by jarbabyj \* > \*\*Of course, Diogenes apologized for that. \*\* He apologized AFTER he’d been pitted, which leads me back to my original statement: the pitting was completely justified. ---
**Author:** ![PhiloVance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/e19adc/32.png) [@PhiloVance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PhiloVance)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2003, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-diogenes-threatens-to-kill-children/201157/74 "2003-09-12T18:36:00Z")
:::sigh::: I wonder what Jimmy Carter thinks of this thread. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![byomtoob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/85f322/32.png) [@byomtoob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/byomtoob)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2003, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-diogenes-threatens-to-kill-children/201157/75 "2003-09-12T18:37:17Z")
Parent of an allergic child weighing in. My son is allergic to ALL dairy products and has been to the emergency school many times. As long as he’s been aware, we’ve taught him not to accept food from others unless he definitely knows there’s no dairy ingredients. You’d be amazed at some of the accidents with things we’ve had with things that you wouldn’t think of as having dairy ingredients–items such as hot dogs (some do, most don’t), sweet and sour mix, and veggie burgers. That said, it NEVER in a million years would have occured to us to insist that no one in school bring dairy products to eat. We just told him never to eat anything from any lunch but his. The only problem we’ve ever had, was when some kid stuck a piece of cheese in his water bottle (deliberately) He noticed that though and didn’t drink any of his bottle. I have to confess, the whole “airborne” thing gets me a bit, I don’t know how to react to that. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2003, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-diogenes-threatens-to-kill-children/201157/76 "2003-09-12T18:41:11Z")
Was the accusation in this thread title justified? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2003, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-diogenes-threatens-to-kill-children/201157/77 "2003-09-12T18:43:43Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Diogenes the Cynic \* > \*\*Was the accusation in this thread title justified? \*\* The above question was addressed to **coyascanbe**. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Miskatonic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr.miskatonic/32/310_2.png) [@Mr.Miskatonic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Miskatonic)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2003, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-diogenes-threatens-to-kill-children/201157/78 "2003-09-12T18:44:14Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by PhiloVance \* > \*\*:::sigh::: > > I wonder what Jimmy Carter thinks of this thread. 😉 \*\* Never mind him, I’m raising George Washington Carver from the dead and he’s rebuilding his peanut gun. ---
**Author:** ![Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e47c2d/32.png) [@Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biffy_the_Elephant_Shrew)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2003, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-diogenes-threatens-to-kill-children/201157/79 "2003-09-12T18:57:20Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Diogenes the Cynic \* > **Peanut butter doesn’t fly through the air.** Obviously you never saw the lunchroom at Marshall Elementary back in '63. ---
**Author:** ![Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e47c2d/32.png) [@Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biffy_the_Elephant_Shrew)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2003, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-diogenes-threatens-to-kill-children/201157/80 "2003-09-12T19:02:17Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by jarbabyj \* > \*\*Thank god I grew up in the dangerous, fun seventies. \*\* Ha! Back in the dangerous, fun **sixties** , I used to buy peanuts every day, _right on campus_. For a mere nickel I would get my bag of peanutty death and just laugh as my playmates dropped like flies all around me. Good times, man, good times. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-diogenes-threatens-to-kill-children/201157.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-diogenes-threatens-to-kill-children/201157.md?page=5)