# In which "Doper" Ellis Dee demonstrates, err, proclaims, his ignorance and/or stupidity **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 7, 2011, 7:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-doper-ellis-dee-demonstrates-err-proclaims-his-ignorance-and-or-stupidity/570498 "2011-02-07T07:51:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![villa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/bc79bd/32.png) [@villa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/villa)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2011, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-doper-ellis-dee-demonstrates-err-proclaims-his-ignorance-and-or-stupidity/570498/61 "2011-02-10T15:53:33Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > I was addressing **Bricker** , who as an attorney at law is an officer of the court. I was under the impression he wasn’t any more. But I could be mistaken. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2011, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-doper-ellis-dee-demonstrates-err-proclaims-his-ignorance-and-or-stupidity/570498/62 "2011-02-10T15:57:06Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > Nope. The justice system is how our society determines whether a person is innocent or guilty of a crime for purposes of legal sanction. There - fixed that. You see, we’re free to reach our own determinations of anything we want by any means we choose to; it’s just that those determinations have no legal consequence or other authority, which is why we’re free to do so. For instance, if I determine on the basis of your posts that you have the I.Q. of a kumquat, I can do so without having access to your Stanford-Binet test results. I may be right or wrong, but I can make that determination if I so choose. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2011, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-doper-ellis-dee-demonstrates-err-proclaims-his-ignorance-and-or-stupidity/570498/63 "2011-02-10T16:07:58Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > You see, we’re free to reach our own determinations of anything we want by any means we choose to; it’s just that those determinations have no legal consequence or other authority, which is why we’re free to do so. > > For instance, if I determine on the basis of your posts that you have the I.Q. of a kumquat, I can do so without having access to your Stanford-Binet test results. I may be right or wrong, but I can make that determination if I so choose. Of course you’re “free” in the sense that no one will break down your door and arrest you for doing so. But it’s funny, because on those occasions when we get someone claiming that psychics are efficacious in helping police, I don’t recall you (or any regulars except perhaps kanicbird) piping up about how we’re free to reach our own determinations of anything we want by any means we choose to. Instead, I see a very strong sense of the board that conclusions should be supported by evidence, with extraordinary conclusions demanding ever stronger evidence. ---
**Author:** ![Shot\_From\_Guns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ccd318/32.png) [@Shot\_From\_Guns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shot_From_Guns)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2011, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-doper-ellis-dee-demonstrates-err-proclaims-his-ignorance-and-or-stupidity/570498/64 "2011-02-10T16:09:50Z")
> [@Mince](#): > > take advantage of intoxicated women […] take advantage of intoxicated females Why are you so afraid of the word “rape”? Wouldn’t it be much more succict to say “\*rape \*intoxicated women”? > [@Mince](#): > > How could he be found liable, so, if he was acquitted of the crime? Go to Wikipedia and look up articles on the U.S. criminal justice system. You clearly don’t have a clue how it works. > [@Mince](#): > > It was **kidchameleon** who seized upon my passing quotation “like a lot of men” and made it a focal issue. And my question is, why did you even make this “passing quotation”? The only purpose I can see is to excuse rape by making it seem socially acceptable. > [@Mince](#): > > Tried to escape? Restrain? Where are you getting these “facts?” Oh, sorry, I didn’t know that someone followed you into a bathroom to rape you and you turned to him and said, “I really don’t want you to insert your penis into my anus, but I’m going to beckon you over and then kiss you lovingly while you rape me.” ---
**Author:** ![Chicagojeff](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b19c9b/32.png) [@Chicagojeff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chicagojeff)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2011, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-doper-ellis-dee-demonstrates-err-proclaims-his-ignorance-and-or-stupidity/570498/65 "2011-02-10T16:13:48Z")
> [@Mince](#): > > I don’t have a quarterback. However, I do favor the Chicago Bears and detest the Steelers and Ben Roethlisberger. > > What else you got? Mince we need to talk.. can i hire you to construct a defense of Jay Cutler?? ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2011, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-doper-ellis-dee-demonstrates-err-proclaims-his-ignorance-and-or-stupidity/570498/66 "2011-02-10T17:38:54Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Of course you’re “free” in the sense that no one will break down your door and arrest you for doing so. > > But it’s funny, because on those occasions when we get someone claiming that psychics are efficacious in helping police, I don’t recall you (or any regulars except perhaps kanicbird) piping up about how we’re free to reach our own determinations of anything we want by any means we choose to. Instead, I see a very strong sense of the board that conclusions should be supported by evidence, with extraordinary conclusions demanding ever stronger evidence. Dude, I’m not the SDMB. I’m not responsible for the “sense of the board” on that issue. And it’s silly to imply that I’ve somehow contradicted myself (what else does “But it’s funny” mean?) because of what I _didn’t_ say in some ancient thread that obviously meant a lot more to you than to me, because I don’t even remember it. Are you sure I even participated in that discussion? At any rate, I’ve been consistent for years in making the point that ‘innocent until proven guilty’ isn’t a general rule of life, but specifically applies to courts of law - and only Anglo-Saxon criminal jurisprudence even then, I believe. ---
**Author:** ![villa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/bc79bd/32.png) [@villa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/villa)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2011, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-doper-ellis-dee-demonstrates-err-proclaims-his-ignorance-and-or-stupidity/570498/67 "2011-02-10T17:39:45Z")
> [@Chicagojeff](#): > > Mince we need to talk.. can i hire you to construct a defense of Jay Cutler?? I think he needs an offensive line more than a defense. ---
**Author:** ![Shot\_From\_Guns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ccd318/32.png) [@Shot\_From\_Guns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shot_From_Guns)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2011, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-doper-ellis-dee-demonstrates-err-proclaims-his-ignorance-and-or-stupidity/570498/68 "2011-02-10T18:20:41Z")
“Come hold my penis” is a pretty offensive line. ---
**Author:** ![villa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/bc79bd/32.png) [@villa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/villa)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2011, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-doper-ellis-dee-demonstrates-err-proclaims-his-ignorance-and-or-stupidity/570498/69 "2011-02-10T18:21:31Z")
Can I request that you delete that email from me before reading it, then? ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2011, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-doper-ellis-dee-demonstrates-err-proclaims-his-ignorance-and-or-stupidity/570498/70 "2011-02-10T19:08:15Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > for purposes of legal sanction. > > There - fixed that. > > You see, we’re free to reach our own determinations of anything we want by any means we choose to; it’s just that those determinations have no legal consequence or other authority, which is why we’re free to do so. > > For instance, if I determine on the basis of your posts that you have the I.Q. of a kumquat, I can do so without having access to your Stanford-Binet test results. I may be right or wrong, but I can make that determination if I so choose. You are perfectly free to think that Ben is a sleazeball or a bad dude or what-have-you, I’m not talking about that. But you concluded based on news reports that he is guilty of a crime. I think that makes you an ignorant ass. But if that’s who you want to be, you go right ahead. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2011, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-doper-ellis-dee-demonstrates-err-proclaims-his-ignorance-and-or-stupidity/570498/71 "2011-02-10T21:08:14Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > But you concluded based on news reports that he is guilty of a crime. I think that makes you an ignorant ass. 1. Is someone who’s convinced that OJ Simpson killed his wife an ignorant ass? 2. What makes you think I’m relying on news reports? 3. No, what I have concluded is that Ben’s very likely committed a crime, based on the undisputed actions of him and his henchmen - and that based on those actions, there’s really zero reason to give him the benefit of the doubt about what happened inside that restroom. You may disagree with my reasoning, and you’re welcome to think I’m an ass, but I’m missing the ‘ignorant’ part here. I think my judgment is fully informed by the facts. What am I missing? ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2011, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-doper-ellis-dee-demonstrates-err-proclaims-his-ignorance-and-or-stupidity/570498/72 "2011-02-10T21:11:59Z")
> [@Shot\_From\_Guns](#): > > “Come hold my penis” is a pretty offensive line. Um… that Velntine’s Day card I sent you? Just ignore it. ---
**Author:** ![villa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/bc79bd/32.png) [@villa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/villa)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2011, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-doper-ellis-dee-demonstrates-err-proclaims-his-ignorance-and-or-stupidity/570498/73 "2011-02-10T21:13:57Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Um… that Velntine’s Day card I sent you? Just ignore it. Ahem! Joke thief! ---
**Author:** ![Shot\_From\_Guns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ccd318/32.png) [@Shot\_From\_Guns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shot_From_Guns)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2011, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-doper-ellis-dee-demonstrates-err-proclaims-his-ignorance-and-or-stupidity/570498/74 "2011-02-10T21:27:30Z")
Gentlemen, gentlemen, I have enough hands for \*both \*your penises. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2011, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-doper-ellis-dee-demonstrates-err-proclaims-his-ignorance-and-or-stupidity/570498/75 "2011-02-10T21:39:45Z")
> [@villa](#): > > Ahem! > > Joke thief! Well, awful speller, to boot. But not really a thief. Just independent smack at a easy pitch. ---
**Author:** ![Mince](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ecd19e/32.png) [@Mince](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mince)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2011, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-doper-ellis-dee-demonstrates-err-proclaims-his-ignorance-and-or-stupidity/570498/76 "2011-02-10T22:17:14Z")
> [@Shot\_From\_Guns](#): > > Go to Wikipedia and look up articles on the U.S. criminal justice system. You clearly don’t have a clue how it works. That wasn’t _really_ a question, but thank you for the resource. ---
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2011, 12:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-doper-ellis-dee-demonstrates-err-proclaims-his-ignorance-and-or-stupidity/570498/77 "2011-02-11T00:08:56Z")
> [@Shot\_From\_Guns](#): > > Gentlemen, gentlemen, I have enough hands for \*both \*your penises. This was the first thing today that I actually laughed out loud at. I’m not sure if that’s a indication of how funny you are or how easily-impressed I am. ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2011, 4:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-doper-ellis-dee-demonstrates-err-proclaims-his-ignorance-and-or-stupidity/570498/78 "2011-02-11T04:10:16Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > 1. Is someone who’s convinced that OJ Simpson killed his wife an ignorant ass? > > 2. What makes you think I’m relying on news reports? > > 3. No, what I have concluded is that Ben’s very likely committed a crime, based on the undisputed actions of him and his henchmen - and that based on those actions, there’s really zero reason to give him the benefit of the doubt about what happened inside that restroom. > > You may disagree with my reasoning, and you’re welcome to think I’m an ass, but I’m missing the ‘ignorant’ part here. I think my judgment is fully informed by the facts. What am I missing? What you are missing is a couple of helpings of intelligence. You feel fully qualified to render judgment after hearing a shoddy and inclomplete version of the facts, which means you are a moron. ---
**Author:** ![Snarky\_Kong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Snarky\_Kong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snarky_Kong)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2011, 4:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-doper-ellis-dee-demonstrates-err-proclaims-his-ignorance-and-or-stupidity/570498/79 "2011-02-11T04:23:13Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > What you are missing is a couple of helpings of intelligence. You feel fully qualified to render judgment after hearing a shoddy and inclomplete version of the facts, which means you are a moron. Judgement? On the INTERNET?! Watch out people! ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2011, 3:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-doper-ellis-dee-demonstrates-err-proclaims-his-ignorance-and-or-stupidity/570498/80 "2011-02-12T03:48:12Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > You feel fully qualified to render judgment after hearing a shoddy and inclomplete version of the facts, which means you are a moron. If I’m such a moron, perhaps you can explain what’s ‘shoddy’ or ‘inclomplete’ about the facts as I’ve stated them. What have I got wrong? What have I missed that should change my conclusion? I’m waiting for specifics, but not exactly with bated breath. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-doper-ellis-dee-demonstrates-err-proclaims-his-ignorance-and-or-stupidity/570498.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-doper-ellis-dee-demonstrates-err-proclaims-his-ignorance-and-or-stupidity/570498.md?page=5)