# In which I admit defeat to inertia and apathy of a 15 year old. **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [June 7, 2014, 1:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-i-admit-defeat-to-inertia-and-apathy-of-a-15-year-old/690271 "2014-06-07T13:42:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2014, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-i-admit-defeat-to-inertia-and-apathy-of-a-15-year-old/690271/21 "2014-06-07T16:39:00Z")
> [@Dangerosa](#): > > At that point he stopped feeling like he had to fail to prove he wasn’t college material - because to a 15 year old boy who doesn’t really like school, college isn’t a privilege, its a punishment - four more years and its HARDER?! Very interesting thought. I must admit that I’ve entertained the idea that what he’s doing is some sort of self sabotage. Though I’m not sure it’s on an entirely conscious level. ---
**Author:** ![SciFiSam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/47e85d/32.png) [@SciFiSam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SciFiSam)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2014, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-i-admit-defeat-to-inertia-and-apathy-of-a-15-year-old/690271/22 "2014-06-07T17:19:47Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > I’ve not yanked the cord on all internet access. Largely because I have an older daughter who is a better student and requires access to the internet as well. Frankly I’m not sure I agree that others need to be punished because my son can’t or won’t live up to his obligations. > > Also, I’m not really going to give up on him. Not my nature and I won’t give the little shit the satisfaction of winning this battle of wills, or however he sees this. > > Lastly, it’s not the marks or the GPA that I care about. It’s the opportunities he will miss out on if he continues to perform well below average and certainly far below his potential. But even more than that, it’s the lesson he is learning that he can do the absolute bare minimum and get by because teachers will take pitty on him because he’s really a good kid otherwise. And that’s not this is what I _think_ is happen, it’s what I _know_ is happening through my communications with his teachers. They are giving him third and fourth chances to pass by extending long past due deadlines and allowing him to do extra credit assignments, all in an effort to drag him to a passing grade. Does he take any of that seriously though? The hell he does. :smack: I see the point about pulling the cord also affecting your daughter, but I did mention an 11pm time to do it which wouldn’t affect her that much if she’s working hard at school, etc. If that’s not workable, perhaps just change the password daily and only give it to those who’ve done their non-internet homework. I think you’re right about the extra chances not being a good idea, and he probably is learning to slack off if he can. Most people will if they can. Does he do anything sociable, even online? I mean, what does he actually do with his time? ---
**Author:** ![Ferret\_Herder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e47774/32.png) [@Ferret\_Herder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ferret_Herder)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2014, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-i-admit-defeat-to-inertia-and-apathy-of-a-15-year-old/690271/23 "2014-06-07T17:28:25Z")
You need to (nicely) tell the teachers to knock it off with the second and third and fourth chances. That you appreciate it but that he’s learning all the wrong lessons for dealing with life. I was a smart kid who hated doing “busywork” and was always praised for being smart… but not necessarily for being diligent. I stopped slacking off when that had actual consequences. ---
**Author:** ![Ranger\_Jeff](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ranger_jeff/32/2065_2.png) [@Ranger\_Jeff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ranger_Jeff)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2014, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-i-admit-defeat-to-inertia-and-apathy-of-a-15-year-old/690271/24 "2014-06-07T17:49:43Z")
Are you computer savvy enough to put a password on his computer so you’ll have to boot it up for him to do his homework? Can you move his computer out of his bedroom and into a common room for him to do his homework? ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2014, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-i-admit-defeat-to-inertia-and-apathy-of-a-15-year-old/690271/25 "2014-06-07T18:12:37Z")
> [@SciFiSam](#): > > I see the point about pulling the cord also affecting your daughter, but I did mention an 11pm time to do it which wouldn’t affect her that much if she’s working hard at school, etc. It’s not that my daughter regularly does homework well after 11pm. It’s that she and/or my wife will stay up to stream netflix or just surf for entertainment. Why deny them the flexibility. Anyway, I can disable his computer without affecting anyone else. The issue isn’t that he’d use his time better if he didn’t have access to YouTube. (see below for more). > [@SciFiSam](#): > > Does he do anything sociable, even online? I mean, what does he actually do with his time? He socializes with friends on Facebook. But he’s not a obsessed with it. He’s taken to “debating” religious zealots on there as well. (Wonder where he got that from…) > [@Ferret\_Herder](#): > > You need to (nicely) tell the teachers to knock it off with the second and third and fourth chances. That you appreciate it but that he’s learning all the wrong lessons for dealing with life. I’ve suggested that already. They agree. But continue to do so. Perhaps they are reluctant to flunk a kid for some bureaucratic reason. > [@Ranger\_Jeff](#): > > Are you computer savvy enough to put a password on his computer so you’ll have to boot it up for him to do his homework? Can you move his computer out of his bedroom and into a common room for him to do his homework? I’m certainly savvy enough to do that. Thing is, it’s not that he’d use his time more wisely. I’ve seen him completely zone out for an hour or two even when his computer privileges are suspended, instead of putting time to good use. He’s an avid reader besides. So if not the internet then he’ll read more, but not necessarily do his homework. He usually reads himself to sleep at night. To illustrate the lengths he’ll go to avoid doing homework… He had an assignment for a class he was failing. It was to take 25 photos of specific things at the museum of natural history and submit the anotated photos. Straight forward and easy, right? I dropped him off at the museum. Picked him up 3 hours later after he’d called to say he was done. A month later I learned that he only took 4 photos and didn’t submit the assignment. When I asked him what he did for 3 hours, he said he just roamed around. Doing what?, I asked, Why? He couldn’t really answer the question. He knew what had to be done, just didn’t care enough to do it. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2014, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-i-admit-defeat-to-inertia-and-apathy-of-a-15-year-old/690271/26 "2014-06-07T18:25:27Z")
Time for professional counselling for him. ---
**Author:** ![brujaja](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4af34b/32.png) [@brujaja](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brujaja)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2014, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-i-admit-defeat-to-inertia-and-apathy-of-a-15-year-old/690271/27 "2014-06-07T18:25:32Z")
I know this doesn’t really help – but I did great in high school, advanced placement glasses, good grades, graduated a year early – and then the moment I turned 18, I moved to San Francisco and joined a band. Never even considered college. I just wanted to get out of the deadly dull suburb I grew up in. You’re right about leading a horse to water. However, I really feel for people going to school these days, because the internet is one big giant distraction. …Maybe he might get interested in filming internet videos? ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2014, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-i-admit-defeat-to-inertia-and-apathy-of-a-15-year-old/690271/28 "2014-06-07T18:54:02Z")
> [@Muffin](#): > > Time for professional counselling for him. It had occured to me as well. Professional school counselors respectfully disagreed. quote: He’s a well adjusted kid with great social skills and well above average evaluation scores. He just needs time to mature. Some kids take longer than others. Try to impress on him the importance of doing homework. etc… ---
**Author:** ![pudytat72](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@pudytat72](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pudytat72)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2014, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-i-admit-defeat-to-inertia-and-apathy-of-a-15-year-old/690271/29 "2014-06-07T19:03:21Z")
1. a physical exam and blood work to make sure he does not have an underlying problem (like anemia making him tired). 2. Mental health evaluation to rule out depression or other problems.and aptitude testing to see where his interest is. ---
**Author:** ![gwendee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/35a633/32.png) [@gwendee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gwendee)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2014, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-i-admit-defeat-to-inertia-and-apathy-of-a-15-year-old/690271/30 "2014-06-07T19:34:29Z")
I could have written the OP about my son. (Though he is now 16) In March of this year he was going through a very difficult time with depression/anxiety and saw a therapist for the first time. She suggested he meet with a psychiatrist who called me in at the end of their time together and said, “What we really should be treating him for is ADHD?” So, for three months he’s been taking medication (seeing the doctor every two weeks slowly increasing from minimum doses) and his grades have gone from being wildly assorted (A- in photography which he enjoys/Inc in calculus which he does not) to marked improvement across the board. I even got an email from his calculus teacher saying how pleased she is at the change in his work. It never occurred to me that he might be dealing with that. Partly because I thought what I was observing was the \*opposite \*of HD - but mainly because I didn’t know well enough what to look for. He had breezed through elementary and middle school. When he struggled in 9th grade people (experienced educators) told me that it’s often an adjustment year. I kind of gave in and decided to just be grateful that he wasn’t using drugs or setting fires and expect him to find his way. Obviously I’m in no position to diagnose your son. I only offer this because if it hasn’t occurred to you as it hadn’t occurred to me it might at least be worth asking the question. ---
**Author:** ![Miss\_Woodhouse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/838e76/32.png) [@Miss\_Woodhouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miss_Woodhouse)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2014, 4:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-i-admit-defeat-to-inertia-and-apathy-of-a-15-year-old/690271/31 "2014-06-08T04:20:33Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > It had occured to me as well. Professional school counselors respectfully disagreed. > > quote: He’s a well adjusted kid with great social skills and well above average evaluation scores. He just needs time to mature. Some kids take longer than others. Try to impress on him the importance of doing homework. etc… My oldest seems very well adjusted on the surface, sociable, friendly, laughs and smiles. She scored off the charts for depression and also has ADHD as well as an impulsive personality that has gotten her into trouble on more than one occasion. She’s doing much better mentally with her medications and counseling putting things back on track, but she still flunked out of her first year of college. Mentally she is doing much better and she has plans on how to fix it and move forward from here, but college is necessary for her career plans. Notice though that I said they are _her_ plans. We support, we love, we give advice, but she is going to drive her own bus. She is the one that has to live where she ends up, not me. There is only so much begging and pleading you can do. I sympathize a lot with you. None of my children are motivated by grades and that’s just not something you can force on a kid. Good luck. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2014, 4:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-i-admit-defeat-to-inertia-and-apathy-of-a-15-year-old/690271/32 "2014-06-08T04:32:19Z")
All I can offer the OP is my sympathy. The problem is that teenagers lack a real sense of the future. They don’t understand that if they slack off for two or three years in high school they’ll still be paying the consequences for it four or five decades from now. A parent realizes this and often feels the sense of urgency the teenager lacks. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2014, 11:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-i-admit-defeat-to-inertia-and-apathy-of-a-15-year-old/690271/33 "2014-06-08T11:50:56Z")
Thanks to everyone for sharing your thoughts and personal stories. I’m obviously not going to give up on my son, despite how frustrating it can sometimes be. I know there are kids and parents out there dealing with problems far more troubling and consequences far more serious. I sympathize and it does help put things in perspective for me. Now, back to the museum once more, with feeling. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![fisha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@fisha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fisha)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2014, 1:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-i-admit-defeat-to-inertia-and-apathy-of-a-15-year-old/690271/34 "2014-06-08T13:03:24Z")
In my experience, two things work. Mostly. 1. “House rules” It’s not a power play between you and me; it’s house rules, similar to the laws of nature. Like gravity. This minimizes you standing over him every night, arguing, going over every excruciating math problem, yet still holds him to high standards. If there is something special that he needs, like a ride to the museum, you’ll be more than happy to help, but you’re not micro managing, telling him what photos to take and checking grammar on his notes. This makes your life much more pleasant, and saves power struggles for more important things. In our house you need a 3.5 to drive. It is a law of nature, there’s nothing I can do about it, it just is. It helps if he has older siblings who are willing to enforce this rule, because it was applied to them. It helps if among his peer group, they have similar crazy laws of nature. Keep yourself out of it. Just like you can’t fight gravity and win (for long) you can’t fight house rules and win. 1. Immediate feedback to non performance. Exploit his soft spots. Very clearly, and with fair warning, set out his carrot/stick. Every kid wants something(unless depressed, see doctor) playing sports? Hanging with friends? Driving? Having a good GPA in four years means nothing to a lot of kids. Being able to go wake boarding on the boat at David’s on Thursday does. Set attainable minimums, and DON’T CHANGE THEM. (Often) “Any C’s, no going out this week” you can check grades, just make it a habit before he goes anywhere. Make sure next week, he has the same chance. Don’t take away stuff for more than a week, let him have an immediate chance again to succeed. Now, he may decide he doesn’t want to do anything for a while, and that’s ok. It’s a ploy, and it’s him getting used to the idea of new rules. He might beg, or fight, or become even more apathetic. Stay out of it as much as possible; remember, these are laws of nature. Shrug and say “I’m sorry, my hands are tied.” Walk away. Keep doing it. When he finally gives, even just a little, make sure you do your end of the bargain, right away. Don’t make big deal out of it, don’t overly praise, otherwise it’ll be between you and him again. Make sure you always hold up your end of the laws of nature/house rules. If YOU violate the rules, you’ll get exactly what you deserve. Have good house rules, too. Money for grades, dinners for special events, a trip of their choice for a special accomplishment, new cleats for making varsity, something to make the house rules balanced. Again, follow through. Don’t give in. They will amaze you, and in a good way. ---
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2014, 1:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-i-admit-defeat-to-inertia-and-apathy-of-a-15-year-old/690271/35 "2014-06-08T13:15:55Z")
Clinical depression? ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2014, 1:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-i-admit-defeat-to-inertia-and-apathy-of-a-15-year-old/690271/36 "2014-06-08T13:34:02Z")
**fisha** : Much of this is already in place and has been for some time. He’s not used the Xbox in 8 months because of his marks and he doesn’t seem troubled by it. I’ve suspended his texting privileges for about that long as well, to no great discomfort. He just rolls with it. **Bosda Di’Chi of Tricor** : Yeah, he certainly drives me to it. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2014, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-i-admit-defeat-to-inertia-and-apathy-of-a-15-year-old/690271/37 "2014-06-08T14:09:55Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > Very interesting thought. I must admit that I’ve entertained the idea that what he’s doing is some sort of self sabotage. Though I’m not sure it’s on an entirely conscious level. Ours wasn’t conscious either. But he’s a fifteen year old boy who isn’t much of an intellectual - which means he HATES school - like I suspect the majority of fifteen year old boys do. When we talk college plans with my daughter, she gets excited. The only thing we’ve found that my son is interested in college is dorm life and a cafeteria where he can eat as much as he wants. I started thinking about the messages we were sending and what those messages translated to in his brain “you have to get better grades so you can go to college” translates, quite simply, into 15 year old boy “if you don’t get good grades, you’ll be done with school in four years.” Now we’ve phrased good grades differently - good grades get insurance discounts on the car. We’ll pay for insurance - we will pay the discounted rate. If they don’t have the grades for the discounted rate we will still pay the insurance (once they are licensed, we have to), but they won’t be driving (they don’t know they’ll still be insured), unless they can pay the delta (which, without a car, its going to be hard to hold a job). ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2014, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-i-admit-defeat-to-inertia-and-apathy-of-a-15-year-old/690271/38 "2014-06-08T14:11:48Z")
> [@SciFiSam](#): > > I see the point about pulling the cord also affecting your daughter, but I did mention an 11pm time to do it which wouldn’t affect her that much if she’s working hard at school, etc. We set up the router to block by device MAC - so my husband and I can be on the internet for eternity - but my son and daughter have all their devices (except cell phone) cut off at 11pm - 10pm on weeknights. If cell phones are an issue, the chargers are moved to the kitchen and all phones are charged there overnight. ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2014, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-i-admit-defeat-to-inertia-and-apathy-of-a-15-year-old/690271/39 "2014-06-08T14:23:58Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > **fisha** : Much of this is already in place and has been for some time. He’s not used the Xbox in 8 months because of his marks and he doesn’t seem troubled by it. I’ve suspended his texting privileges for about that long as well, to no great discomfort. He just rolls with it. Mine as well. Cell phone gone - shrug. X Box gone - shrug. Haven’t seen friends in six months - shrug. Soda removed from the home - shrug. And we did counseling. And he is mentally fine according to three counselors who got no change in behavior from him. But tell me he does great work in counseling sessions and is really committed when he is there, apparently. No ADHD. No depression. The counselors caution us not to take away everything meaningful - he has to have something that he enjoys to get out of bed for. We did homeschool this year - we had some issues with weed which was certainly not helping “don’t care, sleep all the time.” So I quit my job and he had to put up with me every day. The counselor was really against that idea. But I had to have control - not split it with six teachers and three administrators plus the influence of his friends. ---
**Author:** ![drewtwo99](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d07c76/32.png) [@drewtwo99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drewtwo99)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2014, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-i-admit-defeat-to-inertia-and-apathy-of-a-15-year-old/690271/40 "2014-06-08T14:28:32Z")
I’m sorry that your son lacks motivation and doesn’t seem to respond to anything you can think of. If the counselors feel there are no underlying problems with his mind, then it’s best to do exactly what you plan to do. Disengage. Stop letting it bother you. You aren’t a failure. You aren’t a bad parent. And your son isn’t a failure or a bad kid. He doesn’t know any better right now, and as others have already posted, there are many people who don’t get their lives into gear until after high school. If it’s any solace, my brother was an eagle scout, did well in school, and looked like he was going to have an extremely successful, promising life. For whatever reason, after graduation, he got into drugs and abused meth and totally ruined his personality and his mental aptitude. He doesn’t use any longer (because his father has forced him to live with him, basically), but he’s not the same person. He’s unemployed, and any job he will ever have will always be some menial labor job. He will never be normal. My point of sharing this with you is sometimes a kid will be doing everything right, and still screw up terribly and end up ruining their lives. And sometimes a kid will be kind of a fuckup but turn their shit around. You just never know how these things will go. Sounds like you’ve done everything you possibly can do, and will continue to do, to help your son. Now it’s your turn to just destress and tell yourself that its his life to deal with. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-i-admit-defeat-to-inertia-and-apathy-of-a-15-year-old/690271.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-i-admit-defeat-to-inertia-and-apathy-of-a-15-year-old/690271.md?page=3)