# In which I pit Apple for a diabolical annoying change in Lion **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 16, 2011, 5:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-i-pit-apple-for-a-diabolical-annoying-change-in-lion/592869 "2011-08-16T05:07:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2011, 12:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-i-pit-apple-for-a-diabolical-annoying-change-in-lion/592869/21 "2011-08-17T12:30:03Z")
> [@tumbleddown](#): > > You’ve made this complaint before. I still don’t understand why it’s so difficult to close the application before you shut down if you don’t want the window restored on boot up? Cmd+Q. It’s simple. It’s an extra step and and an unnecessary one. I’m shutting the computer down. By default I’m also shutting all the windows. If I want them to open when I reboot in a few hours or tomorrow or in a few days or a week later, I’ll fucking re-open the program. If they’d just make it a setting, like they did with the new opposite-direction-mouse-wheel scroll, I’d be able to shut up about it. But they didn’t and so far they haven’t, and so I’m still complaining about having to do something that is, IMO, totally unnecessary. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2011, 12:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-i-pit-apple-for-a-diabolical-annoying-change-in-lion/592869/22 "2011-08-17T12:31:36Z")
> [@Monkey\_Chews](#): > > Yeah, when I shut down it offers me the option of having all my windows/applications reopen on restart. I unclick it and groove on out the door. See, I think the default should be for shit to NOT re-open on start, and if you want it to, you should have to check for it to do so. If Apple would just reverse the way they have it set up, I could shut up about the whole thing. ---
**Author:** ![minor7flat5](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/minor7flat5/32/258_2.png) [@minor7flat5](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/minor7flat5)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2011, 12:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-i-pit-apple-for-a-diabolical-annoying-change-in-lion/592869/23 "2011-08-17T12:36:32Z")
> [@Morbo](#): > > It’s the scroll wheel change that most irritated me. They changed it to be…the exact opposite of what it used to be. That’s right - down is now up, and up is now down. > > It took me a while to find the setting, which in itself is laughable: > > System Preferences -\> Mouse, enable “Move content in the direction of finger movement when scrolling or navigating.” > > Why on Earth that was added, and added **disabled** so that the direction of scrolling in every scrollwheel-aware application since its original inclusion on the mouse was backwards, is baffling to me. I actually like it 🙂 though I can definitely see why others might not. When I switch between my Mac and my work computer (XP), I find myself scrolling incorrectly for a few seconds. I’m not sure if you were being facetious about the bafflement or truly don’t know the reason: it’s so that Lion behaves like an iPad. It’s one more step in merging all of the iOS devices with their desktop line. And it’s kind of neat how they made several subtle changes (and a few not so subtle) that “iPad-ize” the desktop. For example, confirmation prompts now have that little bit of bounce that they have always had on the iPhone; web pages can be dragged a little bit beyond the limits, causing them to snap back like a rubber band, just like on the iPad or iPhone. And if you use a trackpad, it is very natural and feels like you are using your fingers to pull the underlying content. By the way, I bought a Magic Trackpad the day before I installed Lion. It is clear that mice are not the best way to use it. All that said, I agree that this is a polarizing feature. It’s easy to see why people hate it. > [@Critical\_Mass](#): > > The thing I find to be the biggest pain in the ass about Lion is they’ve done away with the 3 finger gesture up or down on the trackpad to take you instantly to the top or bottom of a page. If I’m in the middle of a long page or document and I want to go to the beginning, I have to do a series of upwards two finger gestures to get there. > > Here’s my one finger gesture to you, Steve. This is one of my pet peeves of Macs. On a PC there are these two awesome keys, Home and End, which allow you to easily navigate around in a single line of text or in the entire document (with ctrl-home and ctrl-end). I haven’t yet found the consistent way to do this on my Mac. I mean, I haven’t found the way that works exactly the same in every application, every time. ---
**Author:** ![jabiru](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/bbce88/32.png) [@jabiru](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jabiru)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2011, 12:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-i-pit-apple-for-a-diabolical-annoying-change-in-lion/592869/24 "2011-08-17T12:59:34Z")
I’ve just bought my very first Mac, although I’ve used one in the dim, distant past (ie about 20 years ago) I _thought_ it’d be like riding a bicycle, since everyone says how easy Macs are and are aimed at the non-geek, eg me. I’m having great trouble adjusting to it and one thing I do miss, which I think is what might have been mentioned further up. Closing all programs (do they still call them applications?) used to be a lot easier than with a PC and involved three keys: option + apple + W. (The key with the apple on it doesn’t even seem to exist anymore.) That was the thing I hated most about PCs when I first used one - having to close each program one by one. Still, I think I’ll get to like my new machine. Eventually. ---
**Author:** ![Pitchmeister](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pitchmeister/32/3459_2.png) [@Pitchmeister](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pitchmeister)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2011, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-i-pit-apple-for-a-diabolical-annoying-change-in-lion/592869/25 "2011-08-17T14:36:51Z")
> [@jabiru](#): > > (The key with the apple on it doesn’t even seem to exist anymore.) It does - it’s called the Command key now. Beats me why they got rid of “Apple” - I for one still call it that. ---
**Author:** ![jabiru](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/bbce88/32.png) [@jabiru](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jabiru)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2011, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-i-pit-apple-for-a-diabolical-annoying-change-in-lion/592869/26 "2011-08-17T14:45:52Z")
> [@Pitchmeister](#): > > It does - it’s called the Command key now. Beats me why they got rid of “Apple” - I for one still call it that. Thanks. Silly of them to get rid of, in my view. ---
**Author:** ![Shot\_From\_Guns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ccd318/32.png) [@Shot\_From\_Guns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shot_From_Guns)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2011, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-i-pit-apple-for-a-diabolical-annoying-change-in-lion/592869/27 "2011-08-17T15:20:27Z")
> [@mischievous](#): > > That’s pretty much exactly it. But we can’t buy Lion systems because they can’t unlock the door. GOD BLESS CORPORATE AMERICA. > [@jabiru](#): > > I’ve just bought my very first Mac, although I’ve used one in the dim, distant past (ie about 20 years ago) I _thought_ it’d be like riding a bicycle, since everyone says how easy Macs are and are aimed at the non-geek, eg me. The bicycle analogy fails because the Mac OS has changed drastically since you last used it, with the big hump probably at the release of OSX. ---
**Author:** ![corkboard](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e9bcb4/32.png) [@corkboard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/corkboard)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2011, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-i-pit-apple-for-a-diabolical-annoying-change-in-lion/592869/28 "2011-08-17T19:03:59Z")
OP: I’m pretty sure I read some review somewhere that said you can get them back under Preferences. I haven’t upgraded to Lion so I can’t check the validity of that, but I’d be very surprised if Steve completely eliminated them and didn’t offer a way to return them. I don’t plan to upgrade unless I have to, mainly because there’s no support for Quicken, which I’ve been using to track my finances for, oh, 10 years or so. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2011, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-i-pit-apple-for-a-diabolical-annoying-change-in-lion/592869/29 "2011-08-17T19:52:09Z")
> [@jabiru](#): > > Thanks. Silly of them to get rid of, in my view. Some of the keyboards still have it. Both my MacPro keyboards do. Hell, I still remember the open apple and the closed apple keys on the (non-Mac) IIes. Makes no difference to me. Open apple or command, it’s the same key. ---
**Author:** ![Hometownboy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/5e9695/32.png) [@Hometownboy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hometownboy)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2011, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-i-pit-apple-for-a-diabolical-annoying-change-in-lion/592869/30 "2011-08-17T20:18:50Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > So you aren’t a fan of just dragging your two fingers up and down on the trackpad? I wouldn’t know — I’m using a Mac Mini with an Expert Mouse trackball. I love my trackball, but it works much better with the arrows… ---
**Author:** ![digs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/digs/32/14889_2.png) [@digs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/digs)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2011, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-i-pit-apple-for-a-diabolical-annoying-change-in-lion/592869/31 "2011-08-17T21:14:00Z")
> [@Gorsnak](#): > > The Steve is making your computing experience simpler and more intuitive. The Steve thinks the new way is better. Who are you to question The Steve? Remember back when Microsoft said “Where Do You Want To Go Today\*?” Well, Apple is now saying “Where does Steve want you to go today?” \*Not that M’soft knew how to get you there… but it was the perfect early-days-of-computing-and-the-web tagline. ---
**Author:** ![jabiru](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/bbce88/32.png) [@jabiru](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jabiru)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2011, 8:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-i-pit-apple-for-a-diabolical-annoying-change-in-lion/592869/32 "2011-08-18T08:40:55Z")
> [@Shot\_From\_Guns](#): > > GOD BLESS CORPORATE AMERICA. > > The bicycle analogy fails because the Mac OS has changed drastically since you last used it, with the big hump probably at the release of OSX. Yep. I’m finding that out. I think I need to buy _Lion for Dummies_ except I don’t think such a book is available. ---
**Author:** ![psychonaut](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/psychonaut/32/4655_2.png) [@psychonaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/psychonaut)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2011, 9:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-i-pit-apple-for-a-diabolical-annoying-change-in-lion/592869/33 "2011-08-18T09:55:12Z")
This reminds me of how a couple years ago Ubuntu decided to move the window title bar minimize, maximize, and close buttons from the right (where they have been on every operating system for the last twenty years) to the left. **Why, Og, why???** What usability benefit could possibly be gained from doing this? I doubt there is any; in fact, it makes the system _less_ usable, since a user is more likely to accidentally click the window’s close button when he tries to activate the pull-down menus. I didn’t use Ubuntu at the time this change was made, but I recently started a new job where I’m obliged (or at least strongly encouraged) to use Ubuntu, so moving the window buttons back to the right was one of the very first things I did. ---
**Author:** ![chorpler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chorpler/32/2888_2.png) [@chorpler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chorpler)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2011, 10:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-i-pit-apple-for-a-diabolical-annoying-change-in-lion/592869/34 "2011-08-18T10:05:03Z")
Can I pit Lion for not properly implementing the multi-user VNC login feature so that it works on every computer with every VNC client? AND for changing the API so that Vine Server, the only other free multi-user remote login solution I’ve been able to find, doesn’t work anymore? I mean, the multi-user remote login was the only reason I installed Lion on our lab Macs in the first place … wish I’d read up in advance and found out that it wasn’t working properly… ---
**Author:** ![cckerberos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f0a364/32.png) [@cckerberos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cckerberos)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2011, 12:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-i-pit-apple-for-a-diabolical-annoying-change-in-lion/592869/35 "2011-08-18T12:38:37Z")
> [@Pitchmeister](#): > > Besides, is it really more non-intuitive than Windows 3.11, 95, 98, ME, 2000, XP, Vista and 7? Honestly? Yes. The Windows names aren’t great, but apart from XP and Vista, they all give at least some sense of how they fit into the lineup. OS X versions don’t give any information whatsoever. ---
**Author:** ![psychonaut](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/psychonaut/32/4655_2.png) [@psychonaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/psychonaut)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2011, 12:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-i-pit-apple-for-a-diabolical-annoying-change-in-lion/592869/36 "2011-08-18T12:52:05Z")
> [@cckerberos](#): > > The Windows names aren’t great, but apart from XP and Vista, … and ME … > [@](#): > > they all give at least some sense of how they fit into the lineup. In the case of 7, it’s a completely misleading sense. Someone without any knowledge of Microsoft Windows would look at that list and think that 7 should come after 3.11. ---
**Author:** ![Doug\_K](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b5ac83/32.png) [@Doug\_K](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doug_K)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2011, 1:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-i-pit-apple-for-a-diabolical-annoying-change-in-lion/592869/37 "2011-08-18T13:18:31Z")
> [@minor7flat5](#): > > I actually like it 🙂 > And if you use a trackpad, it is very natural and feels like you are using your fingers to pull the underlying content. By the way, I bought a Magic Trackpad the day before I installed Lion. It is clear that mice are not the best way to use it. Whether I use the mouse or the trackpad, when I scroll I’m not moving the content. I’m pointing in the direction I want to shift my gaze. If I point up, that doesn’t mean I want to see my feet. ---
**Author:** ![Shot\_From\_Guns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ccd318/32.png) [@Shot\_From\_Guns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shot_From_Guns)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2011, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-i-pit-apple-for-a-diabolical-annoying-change-in-lion/592869/38 "2011-08-18T15:49:28Z")
> [@psychonaut](#): > > What usability benefit could possibly be gained from doing this? I doubt there is any; in fact, it makes the system _less_ usable, since a user is more likely to accidentally click the window’s close button when he tries to activate the pull-down menus. Ugh, I hate-hate-hate it when designers do this. (Lotus Notes is a chronic offender.) Sorry, developer, you are not a special and unique snowflake. You do not get to rip up every established convention just because you think it looks nicer. Well, you can, but then no one is going to want to use your software, because consistency across applications is necessary for efficient use. > [@psychonaut](#): > > Someone without any knowledge of Microsoft Windows would look at that list and think that 7 should come after 3.11. Only if that person is an idiot who doesn’t realize that software never just jumps four versions at a time. ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2011, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-i-pit-apple-for-a-diabolical-annoying-change-in-lion/592869/39 "2011-08-18T16:02:06Z")
I dunno about you guys but I’m pretty sure 7 DOES come after 3.11 in the same way that 26 comes after 10. (But not in the way that 13 comes after 12) ---
**Author:** ![psychonaut](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/psychonaut/32/4655_2.png) [@psychonaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/psychonaut)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2011, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-i-pit-apple-for-a-diabolical-annoying-change-in-lion/592869/40 "2011-08-18T16:40:34Z")
> [@Shot\_From\_Guns](#): > > Only if that person is an idiot who doesn’t realize that software never just jumps four versions at a time. Oh, you mean kind of like how Microsoft Word didn’t jump directly from version 2.0 to version 6.0? :rolleyes: [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-i-pit-apple-for-a-diabolical-annoying-change-in-lion/592869.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-i-pit-apple-for-a-diabolical-annoying-change-in-lion/592869.md?page=3)