# In which I pit Apple for a diabolical annoying change in Lion **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 16, 2011, 5:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-i-pit-apple-for-a-diabolical-annoying-change-in-lion/592869 "2011-08-16T05:07:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![buckgully](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/eb9ed0/32.png) [@buckgully](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/buckgully)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2011, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-i-pit-apple-for-a-diabolical-annoying-change-in-lion/592869/41 "2011-08-18T16:58:07Z")
The problem is that Apple is obviously moving toward a multitouch interface. Which would be fine and dandy, except that the only multitouch input devices for Macs are the magic trackpad, which is terrible for graphics apps, and the magic mouse, which is a complete piece of crap across the board. Then again, almost every single mouse apple has ever put out has been a stinker. The hockey puck gets most of the hate, but only the ADB Mouse II looks like it was designed by someone who knew how human fingers work. And I think the Windows 3.11 vs 7 thing is a joke. You know, as in Windows 7 is such a hog it makes an 8 core system with 16 gig of ram seem like you’re on a 486. ---
**Author:** ![Arnold\_Winkelried](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Arnold\_Winkelried](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arnold_Winkelried)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2011, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-i-pit-apple-for-a-diabolical-annoying-change-in-lion/592869/42 "2011-08-18T17:39:47Z")
> [@Shot\_From\_Guns](#): > > Only if that person is an idiot who doesn’t realize that software never just jumps four versions at a time. I think psychonaut meant that one would think that Windows 7 would have been released _between_ Windows 3 and Windows 95. > [@Lightnin](#): > > Okay, this right here bugs the crap out of me. Why the fuck does an OS have to use a non-intuitive naming convention like that? Was using version numbers just too mainstream for Apple? I don’t know who came up with the idea first, but Ubuntu does the same thing. I guess it’s supposed to be user-friendly. I wonder if there is any hidden code to the progression of cats that Apple has used: Cheetah, Puma, Jaguar, Panther, Tiger, Leopard, Snow Leopard, Lion. I understand the “Snow Leopard” thing because it was a minor upgrade from leopard, but I wonder if there is any other meaning, like going from smaller to bigger felines. If so they’re at the end of the line. Ubuntu has animal names in alphabetical order which is intuitive. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2011, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-i-pit-apple-for-a-diabolical-annoying-change-in-lion/592869/43 "2011-08-18T18:23:26Z")
> [@buckgully](#): > > Then again, almost every single mouse apple has ever put out has been a stinker. The hockey puck gets most of the hate, but only the ADB Mouse II looks like it was designed by someone who knew how human fingers work. I have to agree. I have multiple Apple products in my household, but their mouses are absolute shit ergonomically. Absolute shit. Maybe if you’re doing a little point here and a click there, they’re okay, but if you have to continuously interact with your GUI, it’s a fast path to carpal tunnel. ---
**Author:** ![Morbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/morbo/32/389_2.png) [@Morbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morbo)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2011, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-i-pit-apple-for-a-diabolical-annoying-change-in-lion/592869/44 "2011-08-18T18:48:05Z")
> [@psychonaut](#): > > Oh, you mean kind of like how Microsoft Word didn’t jump directly from version 2.0 to version 6.0? :rolleyes: No, it did not, considering there was Mac Word 3, 4, 5, and 5.1. ---
**Author:** ![Absolute](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b2d939/32.png) [@Absolute](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Absolute)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2011, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-i-pit-apple-for-a-diabolical-annoying-change-in-lion/592869/45 "2011-08-18T18:55:38Z")
Are there no keyboard shortcuts for moving up and down in your document? For instance, the arrow keys, or the Page Up / Page Down keys? That should be faster than hitting two tiny buttons in the corner of your screen with the mouse anyway. Personally, I like the new (lack of) scrollbars in 10.7. It results in that much more screen space, and a less cluttered display. I am not a fan of the new Mission Control - I was a heavy Expose and Spaces user in previous versions, and while quite similar, Mission Control it is just different enough to be disruptive - but I will get used to it. ---
**Author:** ![Shot\_From\_Guns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ccd318/32.png) [@Shot\_From\_Guns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shot_From_Guns)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2011, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-i-pit-apple-for-a-diabolical-annoying-change-in-lion/592869/46 "2011-08-18T19:32:14Z")
> [@psychonaut](#): > > Oh, you mean kind of like how Microsoft Word didn’t jump directly from version 2.0 to version 6.0? :rolleyes: Oh, I’m sorry, I didn’t realize that \*you \*were retarded, personally. Or are you actually living in your own little world that has a completely different timeline from the rest of reality? Word 6.0 was developed off of the code base of 2.0. That is not remotely the same thing as “jumping directly from 2.0 to 6.0.” > [@Arnold\_Winkelried](#): > > I think psychonaut meant that one would think that Windows 7 would have been released _between_ Windows 3 and Windows 95. That would also be deeply stupid, since anyone who would actually be using Windows 95 would know that 95 was named for _its fucking release year_. I mean, christ, there are a lot of stupid people out there, but let’s please not make it worse than it is. **psychonaut** ’s bizarre alternate reality aside, there’s no great host of people who get confused which Windows OS was released in which order. ---
**Author:** ![psychonaut](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/psychonaut/32/4655_2.png) [@psychonaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/psychonaut)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2011, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-i-pit-apple-for-a-diabolical-annoying-change-in-lion/592869/47 "2011-08-18T20:02:33Z")
> [@Morbo](#): > > No, it did not, considering there was Mac Word 3, 4, 5, and 5.1. If we’re going to count all the different platforms of Word as the same product, then chronologically speaking the version numbers go something like 1, 2, 1, 3, 4, 3, 5, 4, 1.0, 1.1, 1.1a, 5.1, 5.5, 5, 2.0, 1.1B, 5.1, 6.0, 6, 7.0, 8.0, 8.5, 9.0, 2001, X, 10.0, 11.0, 2004, 12.0, 2008, 2011, 14.0. That’s not confusing at all. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Arnold\_Winkelried](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Arnold\_Winkelried](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arnold_Winkelried)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2011, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-i-pit-apple-for-a-diabolical-annoying-change-in-lion/592869/48 "2011-08-18T21:09:11Z")
> [@Shot\_From\_Guns](#): > > That would also be deeply stupid, since anyone who would actually be using Windows 95 would know that 95 was named for _its fucking release year_. > > I mean, christ, there are a lot of stupid people out there, but let’s please not make it worse than it is. **psychonaut** ’s bizarre alternate reality aside, there’s no great host of people who get confused which Windows OS was released in which order. I know the order of releases, but it’s not because of the naming scheme. I thought the point was that the naming scheme doesn’t follow any logical pattern. ---
**Author:** ![Pitchmeister](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pitchmeister/32/3459_2.png) [@Pitchmeister](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pitchmeister)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2011, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-i-pit-apple-for-a-diabolical-annoying-change-in-lion/592869/49 "2011-08-18T21:17:16Z")
**Shot from Guns** , I know this is the Pit and one is suppowed to be rude, but I believe you badly need to adjust your level of outrage. We’re talking about naming different operating systems here. What I meant with my original comparison was that the numbering of Windows releases is just as unintuitive as giving your OS a bunch of cat names. Also, as I said, they still have the 10.x format to tell you exactly where you are (bugfixes are not called Snow Leopard.5, but 10.6.5). Friends? ---
**Author:** ![Shot\_From\_Guns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ccd318/32.png) [@Shot\_From\_Guns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shot_From_Guns)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2011, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-i-pit-apple-for-a-diabolical-annoying-change-in-lion/592869/50 "2011-08-18T21:29:34Z")
Windows, like Mac, \*also \*has a version number for every OS. (Vista, for example, is 6.something.) I just feel like this conversation has turned into the equivalent of an infomercial demo, where some unrealistically uncoordinated person flails around helplessly with conventional kitchen tools until being handed whatever nifty thing is being hawked. Yes, someone who lived in a cave all their life probably wouldn’t be able to give the correct release order for the various versions of Windows, given only their common names. But that person also _wouldn’t be able to speak any language at all_, so it doesn’t really say much about the OS. The average person would probably have no trouble at all putting at least the major commercial releases in the correct order. ---
**Author:** ![Morbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/morbo/32/389_2.png) [@Morbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morbo)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2011, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-i-pit-apple-for-a-diabolical-annoying-change-in-lion/592869/51 "2011-08-18T21:36:58Z")
> [@psychonaut](#): > > If we’re going to count all the different platforms of Word as the same product, then chronologically speaking the version numbers go something like 1, 2, 1, 3, 4, 3, 5, 4, 1.0, 1.1, 1.1a, 5.1, 5.5, 5, 2.0, 1.1B, 5.1, 6.0, 6, 7.0, 8.0, 8.5, 9.0, 2001, X, 10.0, 11.0, 2004, 12.0, 2008, 2011, 14.0. That’s not confusing at all. 😃 You had to be there. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Baal\_Houtham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baal_houtham/32/13604_2.png) [@Baal\_Houtham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baal_Houtham)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2011, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-i-pit-apple-for-a-diabolical-annoying-change-in-lion/592869/52 "2011-08-18T22:19:11Z")
> [@Shot\_From\_Guns](#): > > The average person would probably have no trouble at all putting at least the major commercial releases in the correct order. You’re about 25% more correct and about 200% more hostile. There’s no logic to ME, Vista, or 7, and no reason to think they should come after 2000 rather than 3.11. There’s more mnemonics to the system than with the Apple Cats, but it still doesn’t make sense. And Word for Windows did jump from 2 to 6, special pleading notwithstanding. ---
**Author:** ![digs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/digs/32/14889_2.png) [@digs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/digs)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2011, 2:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-i-pit-apple-for-a-diabolical-annoying-change-in-lion/592869/53 "2011-08-19T02:35:56Z")
Do people really not know that Mac OSes have gone from 10.2 to 10.3 to 10.4 to 10.5 to 10.6 to 10.7? Sounds pretty logical to me. You don’t HAVE to use the cutesy cat names. And if you look at “About This Mac” in the menu, it’ll say… well, my work laptop says “10.6.7”. My iMac says “10.4.12” because I’d have to pay to upgrade my own machine. 🙂 Now, if you want to complain, you could say Hey, my mac says 10.6, but doesn’t say “Snow Leopard”, which means I have to look it up if some tech guy says “Oh, you need Leopard or later for that to work.” Or you say “Hey, I don’t use nicknames. What OS release do I need in numbers?” … ps: Hey, Apple! How 'bout “Saber-Tooth Tiger” for the next release? And a free MacBookPro for the guy who suggested it? ---
**Author:** ![Shot\_From\_Guns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ccd318/32.png) [@Shot\_From\_Guns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shot_From_Guns)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2011, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-i-pit-apple-for-a-diabolical-annoying-change-in-lion/592869/54 "2011-08-19T15:01:00Z")
> [@Baal\_Houtham](#): > > There’s no logic to ME, Vista, or 7, and no reason to think they should come after 2000 rather than 3.11. Man, I just don’t get this Tolkein idiot. _Return of the King_, _The Fellowship of the Ring_, _The Two Towers_–someone who didn’t know anything about these books would be totally confused about what order you’re supposed to read them in! ETA: But thank you for what I’m about to make my new title. ETA2: I wanted “25% More Correct, 200% More Hostile” but I could only fit half. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![zweisamkeit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zweisamkeit/32/4360_2.png) [@zweisamkeit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zweisamkeit)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2011, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-i-pit-apple-for-a-diabolical-annoying-change-in-lion/592869/55 "2011-08-19T17:04:13Z")
> [@psychonaut](#): > > … and ME … “ME”, while being oh so cutesie because it could sound like “me! It’s Windows for me!” actually stood for Millennium Edition. It was intended to be the home user OS while Win2k was for business/professional. Note that I’m not defending or endorsing ME; it was an abortion of an OS. > [@digs](#): > > Do people really not know that Mac OSes have gone from 10.2 to 10.3 to 10.4 to 10.5 to 10.6 to 10.7? > > … > > Now, if you want to complain, you could say Hey, my mac says 10.6, but doesn’t say “Snow Leopard”, which means I have to look it up if some tech guy says “Oh, you need Leopard or later for that to work.” Or you say “Hey, I don’t use nicknames. What OS release do I need in numbers?” Uh, your second quoted section is exactly what the complaint is about. IME, people who are everyday Mac users/fans (not super hardcore or powerusers) do like the cat names, _but they don’t know the corresponding version number_. They may very well know the order of cat releases, but still have no clue what the damned numbers are. For example, I can tell you the past few releases were Tiger, then Leopard, then Snow Leopard and now Lion. But do I know which 10.\* Tiger is? Offhand, no. So if someone else starts talking 10.4, 10.7 etc, I wouldn’t know which cats those numbers correspond to. I say this as someone who bought a MacBook as their current laptop (had it for ~3 years now), has a Computer Science degree and worked in IT until I left for grad school. I don’t find the cute cat nicknames helpful or intuitive and I personally think it’s funny that so many people will gush about Macs being SO much easier to use and more intuitive than Windows… When a LOT of this “intuitive” stuff isn’t intuitive _unless you already have experience with Mac OSes_. How that’s any different than Windows, I don’t get. ---
**Author:** ![WolfpackJeep](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpackjeep/32/2921_2.png) [@WolfpackJeep](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WolfpackJeep)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2011, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-i-pit-apple-for-a-diabolical-annoying-change-in-lion/592869/56 "2011-08-19T23:47:11Z")
My first computer was an Apple IIGS…in my mind, that key is still called “open apple”. I haven’t used an Apple in a long time, so I really don’t have anything to compare with Lion. I’ve been pleased so far. I do wonder why Safari won’t sort bookmarks alphabetically…am I missing something? ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_Robson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gary_robson/32/3448_2.png) [@Gary\_Robson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_Robson)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2011, 1:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-i-pit-apple-for-a-diabolical-annoying-change-in-lion/592869/57 "2011-08-20T01:51:44Z")
My biggest complaint about Lion is that it’s so damned expensive. Not the operating system itself, which is very reasonably priced, but the fact that Office 2003 and Adobe CS/2 both stop working when Lion is loaded. Those programs do everything I need them to do, but now I have to pony up a _BIG_ wad of cash to upgrade to the latest versions of the applications if I want to load the new OS. ---
**Author:** ![Baal\_Houtham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baal_houtham/32/13604_2.png) [@Baal\_Houtham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baal_Houtham)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2011, 1:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-i-pit-apple-for-a-diabolical-annoying-change-in-lion/592869/58 "2011-08-20T13:11:40Z")
> [@Shot\_From\_Guns](#): > > ETA2: I wanted “25% More Correct, 200% More Hostile” but I could only fit half. ☹ I like this remark. ---
**Author:** ![drachillix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/48db29/32.png) [@drachillix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drachillix)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2011, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-i-pit-apple-for-a-diabolical-annoying-change-in-lion/592869/59 "2011-08-20T23:04:24Z")
Wow, I have none of these problems and I have not had a virus in years. Then again I use windows so we don’t have these problems 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_Robson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gary_robson/32/3448_2.png) [@Gary\_Robson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_Robson)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2011, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-i-pit-apple-for-a-diabolical-annoying-change-in-lion/592869/60 "2011-08-21T00:47:38Z")
> [@drachillix](#): > > Wow, I have none of these problems and I have not had a virus in years. > > Then again I use windows so we don’t have these problems 😃 Sure. Windows never stops supporting your old software when you upgrade. And it never causes network failures because one version won’t network properly with another. And, Lord knows they don’t completely change the UI so you can’t find anything anymore. :rolleyes: [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-i-pit-apple-for-a-diabolical-annoying-change-in-lion/592869.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-i-pit-apple-for-a-diabolical-annoying-change-in-lion/592869.md?page=4)