# In which I pit aspects of the African American culture of today **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 30, 2005, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-i-pit-aspects-of-the-african-american-culture-of-today/296854 "2005-03-30T00:14:31Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![threemae](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/5f9b8f/32.png) [@threemae](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/threemae)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2005, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-i-pit-aspects-of-the-african-american-culture-of-today/296854/41 "2005-03-30T21:15:20Z")
Well, **brickbacon** , I feel that there’s an important distinction here between creating a witch hunt against black reporters and criticising affirmative action programs. If affirmative action programs get cut down because of Jayson Blair, that doesn’t mean that suddenly black reporters will have to be more qualified than their white counterparts to earn a position, they simply no longer have to be _less_ qualified to get a position. I see this as an argument against afirmative action. Other reporters and staffers at the NY Times were complaining about Blair and some have said that there were signs that editors should have more readily picked up upon but choose to overlook due to their affirmative action policies. When it ended up being a huge fuck up for all parties involved, this has unfairly gone back to work against numerous qualified black reporters that didn’t need affirmative action to get hired in the first place. It’s the same here at my undergrad school. My impression is that the vast majority of black students at my school would have gotten in anyway without affirmative action, but the presensce of affirmative action is causing people to unfairly stereotype black students as less capable or academic. Given that, even for CU Boulder, the black population far outnumbers the football program, a large number of black students that I’ve talked to often have people ask them about their involvement in the football program for no reason what so ever beyond their race. Asking a 6 foot 155 lb. biochem major what position they play on the football team? :rolleyes: I think that this is a valid argument against affirmative action. ---
**Author:** ![kidchameleon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/898d66/32.png) [@kidchameleon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kidchameleon)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2005, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-i-pit-aspects-of-the-african-american-culture-of-today/296854/42 "2005-03-30T21:31:16Z")
> [@Anaamika](#): > > Count me :dubious: too. Do all Asians come to the country with money and education? The transcontinental railroad gave stock options to all it’s workers. :rolleyes: That’s like saying people from the middle east immegrate with loads of cash. :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![jeevmon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/87869e/32.png) [@jeevmon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jeevmon)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2005, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-i-pit-aspects-of-the-african-american-culture-of-today/296854/43 "2005-03-30T21:44:10Z")
I don’t know about impact on black reporters, but it is a telling comment on racial attitudes today that the Jayson Blair incident was seized upon as an opportunity to muse as to the merits of affirmative action and minority recruitment programs, whereas the discovery that Jack Kelley, a white reporter at USA Today, engaged in similar (and arguably more [egregious](http://fairchance.civilrights.org/research_center/details.cfm?id=22836) ) fabrications was viewed as simply a case of a bad apple. No one asked if Jack Kelley received preferential treatment or consideration because he was white. Or if maybe there is a problem with unqualified white reporters in the newsroom. There are also studies showing that candidates with [“black” names](http://www.povertyactionlab.org/papers/bertrand_mullainathan.pdf) face discrimination in hiring, and that a [white felon is more likely to be considered for a job than a black non-felon](http://www.princeton.edu/~pager/pager_ajs.pdf). To suggest that racism is gone completely would be completely myopic. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2005, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-i-pit-aspects-of-the-african-american-culture-of-today/296854/44 "2005-03-30T21:55:40Z")
> [@jeevmon](#): > > I don’t know about impact on black reporters, but it is a telling comment on racial attitudes today that the Jayson Blair incident was seized upon as an opportunity to muse as to the merits of affirmative action and minority recruitment programs, whereas the discovery that Jack Kelley, a white reporter at USA Today, engaged in similar (and arguably more [egregious](http://fairchance.civilrights.org/research_center/details.cfm?id=22836) ) fabrications was viewed as simply a case of a bad apple. Um… no, that’s not telling at all. Jack Kelly wasn’t hired from an afirmative action program. If a less qualified candiate (Eg. Blair) is hired through a diversity program, then it makes sense to question the hiring of less qualified candiates. > [@jeevmon](#): > > There are also studies showing that candidates with [“black” names](http://www.povertyactionlab.org/papers/bertrand_mullainathan.pdf) face discrimination in hiring, and that a [white felon is more likely to be considered for a job than a black non-felon](http://www.princeton.edu/~pager/pager_ajs.pdf). > To suggest that racism is gone completely would be completely myopic. There’s a big difference between showing that racism still exists and proving that black journalists are in any way handicapped by Blair’s actions. ---
**Author:** ![Giraffe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giraffe/32/129_2.png) [@Giraffe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giraffe)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2005, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-i-pit-aspects-of-the-african-american-culture-of-today/296854/45 "2005-03-30T21:59:47Z")
> [@brickbacon](#): > > I’m still working on cites stating the Earth is round. Don’t worry, I’ll get around to it. Don’t worry, [I’ve got you covered](http://nexus.polaris.net/services/image-archive/space/earth//earth.jpg). ---
**Author:** ![gytalf2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/ac91a4/32.png) [@gytalf2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gytalf2000)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2005, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-i-pit-aspects-of-the-african-american-culture-of-today/296854/46 "2005-03-30T22:29:32Z")
> [@even sven](#): > > There was just a thread in IMHO where many, many, many dopers said they would be uncomfortable living in a predominately black neighborhood (of course, some people said they’d be fine with it). Do you really believe that this is the sign on a healthy society that has eliminated racism? Hey, two of my white childhood friends moved into predominantly black / hispanic neighborhoods. They were about as non-racist as you can get when we were growing up together. After experiencing quite a bit of racial bullying, getting told “You don’t belong here!”, having their kids harrassed at school, etc., they have since concluded that they would never voluntarily go back to a minority neighborhood if they could possibly help it! They call themselves “racially aware” now and are quite bitter about their experience. I was also very liberal about racial matters when I was growing up. (I dated a black girl in college.) In my late twenties I went to a predominantly black university to get a Master’s Degree in Education. I was also told “You don’t belong here!”; people tried to intimidate me on many different occasions. My point? We certainly have not eliminated racism. Racism comes in all colors, there are plenty of black racists out there, as well as whites. I just get really tired of the “eternal black victim” attitude, when nowadays they are just as likely to be perpetrators of racist actions as they are victims! ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2005, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-i-pit-aspects-of-the-african-american-culture-of-today/296854/47 "2005-03-30T22:32:13Z")
> [@brickbacon](#): > > Also, the fact that White America insists on keeping a collective “permanent record” of everything bad any black person has ever done, then asking every black individual to account for these things, and be responsible for the behavior of others doesn’t help. It’s pretty damaging to the psyche when you are asked to atone for things you has nothing to do with. I’d just like to point out that I as a white person was singled out on this level just the other day. I find most often that this cultural accounting is levelled at me by people who are NOT black. People saying that I have a responsibility to change things because I have benefitted as a white person. So while I don’t have a problem with benefitting myself, and am unwilling to undercut myself to lower myself to the level of someone less fortunate, I am perfectly willing to accept the responsibility of helping my fellow man, black or white, but I have to be successful and receive benefits before I can pass any on. I just get a little tired of the rage at white people being levelled at me. So it cuts both ways on this particular issue of accounting, and while it happens more often that someone who is not black levels it at me, that doesn’t mean black people never hold white people to this type of accounting. > [@kingpengvin](#): > > Funny thing is everything we once thought of as cool turns out to be idiotic in the light of maturity. I remember Big hair, parachute pants, painters caps and Grown men in Spandex and mascara was seen as cool by some. Yeesh. Or what about when power suits, martinis and Mercedes Benzes were considered cool? Or that stupid time when it was cooler to have a Blaupunkt stereo than a Magnavox? And remember when the kids thought that working on Wall Street was so much cooler? Or when all those older ‘kids’ told us how much cooler it was when they were doing it back in the 60s and how we’re all just copy cats who are copying youth off of them? What about all those people who thought it was cool to invade Iraq? Or what about back when we were kids and it was so awful if that bitch was wearing the same dress? Man dumb fucking kids with their silly notions of cool. > [@brickbacon](#): > > Even the fact that his behavior is used as an excuse to critique diversity goals, affirmative action, etc. is proof that his behavior will affect all black people. Yes, it will affect black people, but how it will affect black people is what will determine whether or not it sets black people back. Maybe it will just show that black people don’t need quotas to get them a job. That would affect them certainly. Most of your cites show that black reporters feared being discriminated against, not that they actually were being discriminated against. I’d forgotten the Jason Blair story until you brought it up. I have felt greater fear in black neighborhoods that I have lived in, because I was at greater risk. This does not apply to all black neighborhoods. It doesn’t mean I didn’t feel out of place in white neighborhoods either. Once I was strip searched publically without provocation by some cops in a suburban white neighborhood, and that made me wary of small white towns in New Jersey. Pretending like some black neighborhoods are not something worthy of watching your back in, is naive at best. Also, sometimes it’s just a matter of “strange unfamiliar surroundings”, and not a matter of racism. Personally, I’d appreciate it if people would stop asking me to solve macrocosmic issues that are really interpersonal, and I can’t do anything about. If you want me to treat you like a human being, consider it done, but if you want me to make someone else treat you like a human being, I’m sorry, but I can’t do that. I don’t lump all white people, or all black people into a category, I’d appreciate the same courtesy from anyone I’m dealing with. Erek ---
**Author:** ![brickbacon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/898d66/32.png) [@brickbacon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brickbacon)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2005, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-i-pit-aspects-of-the-african-american-culture-of-today/296854/48 "2005-03-30T22:33:42Z")
> [@threemae](#): > > Well, **brickbacon** , I feel that there’s an important distinction here between creating a witch hunt against black reporters and criticising affirmative action programs. If affirmative action programs get cut down because of Jayson Blair, that doesn’t mean that suddenly black reporters will have to be more qualified than their white counterparts to earn a position, they simply no longer have to be _less_ qualified to get a position. > > I see this as an argument against afirmative action. Other reporters and staffers at the NY Times were complaining about Blair and some have said that there were signs that editors should have more readily picked up upon but choose to overlook due to their affirmative action policies. When it ended up being a huge fuck up for all parties involved, this has unfairly gone back to work against numerous qualified black reporters that didn’t need affirmative action to get hired in the first place. > > It’s the same here at my undergrad school. My impression is that the vast majority of black students at my school would have gotten in anyway without affirmative action, but the presensce of affirmative action is causing people to unfairly stereotype black students as less capable or academic. Given that, even for CU Boulder, the black population far outnumbers the football program, a large number of black students that I’ve talked to often have people ask them about their involvement in the football program for no reason what so ever beyond their race. Asking a 6 foot 155 lb. biochem major what position they play on the football team? :rolleyes: > > I think that this is a valid argument against affirmative action. Since when does Affirmative Action = less qualified. That is a fallacy and is completely unsupportable. Besides, Jayson Balir was more than qualified to work at the New York Times. [This](http://www.baltimoresun.com/features/arts/bal-as.blair23,0,3313659.story) article discusses some of the things he’d done before plagiarizing. > [@](#): > > _The university could have chosen one of several eminent journalism alumni for the video: TV news anchor Connie Chung, Pulitzer prize-winner Patrick Sloyan, columnist DeWayne Wickham, among them. **But in 2000, Blair must have seemed an obvious choice. He had been the second African-American editor of the student paper, the Diamondback. He had held internships at three of the nation’s top newspapers. And, shortly after leaving Maryland, he had risen from intern to staff writer at The New York Times – all by the age of 24**._ Black or white, Jayson Blair had a pretty impressive record (on paper) when he was hired by the NYT (probably better than most applicants). To claim he wasn’t qualified is ridiculous. Nobody has ever claimed he was a bad reporter or an untalented writer. He has no intellectual shortcomings. It’s his dishonesty that was the at issue. The problem was that the NYT didn’t check their facts. They didn’t check to see if he had graduated, they didn’t investigate his character, etc. It has absolutely nothing to do with AA or the program they had in place. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2005, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-i-pit-aspects-of-the-african-american-culture-of-today/296854/49 "2005-03-30T22:39:09Z")
[““Does that mean I personally favored Jayson?” he added, a moment later. “Not consciously. But you have a right to ask if I, as a white man from Alabama, with those convictions, gave him one chance too many by not stopping his appointment to the sniper team. When I look into my heart for the truth of that, the answer is yes.””](http://www.nytimes.com/2003/05/15/business/media/15PAPE.html?ex=1112331600&en=61e7dc7ab31bd989&ei=5070&oref=login) ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2005, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-i-pit-aspects-of-the-african-american-culture-of-today/296854/50 "2005-03-30T22:43:20Z")
A more inclusive quote. And, no character flaws from a “former total cokehead?” [" If there were any doubt about Jayson Blair’s character, he revealed himself as a charlatan in an extraordinary interview by Sridhar Pappu in the New York Observer. Blair admitted to “abusing alcohol and doing drugs, cocaine to be specific.” The extent of Blair’s self-immolation was evident in his description of himself as a “former total cokehead.” Apparently still delusional in his Observer interview, Blair stated he was not an “affirmative action hire.” The plain truth is that Blair got his job at the Times and was promoted because of a program of racial preference. Howell Raines, the Times’ executive editor, recently admitted this much when he stated: “Our paper has a commitment to diversity and by all accounts he appeared to be a promising young minority reporter. I believe in aggressively providing hiring and career opportunities for minorities. Does that mean I personally favored Jayson? Not consciously. But you have a right to ask if I, as a white man from Alabama, with those convictions, gave him one chance too many by not stopping his appointment to the sniper team. When I look into my heart for the truth of that, the answer is yes.”]([http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2003/5/29/170732.shtml](http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2003/5/29/170732.shtml)) ---
**Author:** ![brickbacon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/898d66/32.png) [@brickbacon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brickbacon)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2005, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-i-pit-aspects-of-the-african-american-culture-of-today/296854/51 "2005-03-30T22:48:11Z")
> [@mswas](#): > > Yes, it will affect black people, but how it will affect black people is what will determine whether or not it sets black people back. Maybe it will just show that black people don’t need quotas to get them a job. That would affect them certainly. > > Most of your cites show that black reporters feared being discriminated against, not that they actually were being discriminated against. > > I’d forgotten the Jason Blair story until you brought it up. True, but most of those affected by Jayson Blair don’t know they were. They were never hired. > [@mswas](#): > > I have felt greater fear in black neighborhoods that I have lived in, because I was at greater risk. This does not apply to all black neighborhoods. It doesn’t mean I didn’t feel out of place in white neighborhoods either. Once I was strip searched publically without provocation by some cops in a suburban white neighborhood, and that made me wary of small white towns in New Jersey. Pretending like some black neighborhoods are not something worthy of watching your back in, is naive at best. Also, sometimes it’s just a matter of “strange unfamiliar surroundings”, and not a matter of racism. First, I never mentioned Black neighborhoods in this thread. Of course many black neighborhoods in the US are dangerous, but that doesn’t mean that’s the reason most people don’t want to live in black neighborhoods. It’s like when people claim there are no babies to adopt. This is bullshit, there are plenty of non-white babies, or disabled babies that would love a home. Just like those people who repeat that fallacy, there are people who say all black neighborhoods are dangerous, when in reality, they think black people are dangerous. There are plenty of middle class minority neighborhoods that many white people won’t live in. > [@mswas](#): > > Personally, I’d appreciate it if people would stop asking me to solve macrocosmic issues that are really interpersonal, and I can’t do anything about. If you want me to treat you like a human being, consider it done, but if you want me to make someone else treat you like a human being, I’m sorry, but I can’t do that. I don’t lump all white people, or all black people into a category, I’d appreciate the same courtesy from anyone I’m dealing with. > > Erek Fair enough. Just try not to pretend that racism and discrimination doesn’t affect Blacks in numerous ways. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2005, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-i-pit-aspects-of-the-african-american-culture-of-today/296854/52 "2005-03-30T22:52:44Z")
> [@brickbacon](#): > > True, but most of those affected by Jayson Blair don’t know they were. They were never hired. You ever going to provide proof for this claim? Or just keep making it and hope that if you say it enough it’ll become true? Obviously not all black people need affirmative action, and many are qualified, right? So cutting back on affirmative action wouldn’t affect them, right? You’ve still not proven that the Blair scandal had anything to do with the status of non-affirmative action hires. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2005, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-i-pit-aspects-of-the-african-american-culture-of-today/296854/53 "2005-03-30T23:02:32Z")
brickbacon: I wasn’t referring directly to you with my black neighborhoods comment. It was brought up in the thread by someone else. FinnAgain: It’s pretty hard to prove or disprove whether or not someone as actually affected by Jason Blair. There is no statistic for what Human Resources Managers were thinking as they tossed resumes into the shredder. So asking for a cite is pretty disingenuous. I personally doubt that black hires were all that adversely affected by Jason Blair, but there is no way to prove or disprove that. Racism certainly exists, and it definitely affects people’s hiring decisions, but I don’t think it’s a problem on the level most people make it out to be, and I think that clinging to it as a root cause is a major source of the rift between ‘white’ and ‘black’ people. Every time we make an impression on someone we meet, we have a chance to chip away at their presumptions, if we go in with a presumption about their presumption, we’re only going to see a self-fulfilling prophecy. Erek ---
**Author:** ![brickbacon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/898d66/32.png) [@brickbacon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brickbacon)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2005, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-i-pit-aspects-of-the-african-american-culture-of-today/296854/54 "2005-03-30T23:03:53Z")
> [@FinnAgain](#): > > A more inclusive quote. > And, no character flaws from a “former total cokehead?” Do you actually read what other people post? Where did I say he had no character flaws? Please tell me. In fact, I stated it was some of character flaws that became a problem. Besides, what does his coke habit have to do with AA? Are you stating that you think the AA leads to more people with coke habits being hired? Do you think Black people are disproportionately coke addicts? How would getting rid of the program prevent another Jayson Blair. Conversely, would only hiring minorities get rid of people like Stephan Glass or Rick Bragg? I say no. Dishonesty is dishonesty. An asshole is an asshole. AA has nothing to do with it. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2005, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-i-pit-aspects-of-the-african-american-culture-of-today/296854/55 "2005-03-30T23:24:11Z")
> [@mswas](#): > > FinnAgain: It’s pretty hard to prove or disprove whether or not someone as actually affected by Jason Blair. Then it’s rather silly to state as a fact that people weren’t hired due to it, eh? > [@mswas](#): > > So asking for a cite is pretty disingenuous. You might wanna look up the word ‘disingenuous’. I don’t think it means what you think it does. This is the Dope for crying out loud. Asking for proof is now beyond the pale? :rolleyes: > [@mswas](#): > > I personally doubt that black hires were all that adversely affected by Jason Blair, but there is no way to prove or disprove that. Sure there is. Show me non AA hires pre and post Blair. That’ll at least be a start. > [@brickbacon](#): > > Do you actually read what other people post? Where did I say he had no character flaws? Do you actually read what **you post?** > [@brickbacon (bolding mine)](#): > > Since when does Affirmative Action = less qualified. That is a fallacy and is completely unsupportable. Besides, **Jayson Balir was more than qualified to work at the New York Times.** So while he was on his rise to power he was, in his own words, a total cokehead. This doesn’t mean he was less qualified? :dubious: > [@brickbacon](#): > > Besides, what does his coke habit have to do with AA? I’ve already furnished you with quotes that the Times was more agressive in keeping him on than if he’d not been black. Obviously the behavioral abnormalities native to cokeheads were overlooked due to their policies regarding AA. > [@brickbacon](#): > > How would getting rid of the program prevent another Jayson Blair. How would hiring based only on merit ensure that merit was the prime characteristic they selected on? Jeez, I have no idea. > [@brickbacon](#): > > Conversely, would only hiring minorities get rid of people like Stephan Glass or Rick Bragg? Are we into strawman territory, or taking a logical premise to an absurd conclusion? I can’t quite tell. ---
**Author:** ![brickbacon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/898d66/32.png) [@brickbacon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brickbacon)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2005, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-i-pit-aspects-of-the-african-american-culture-of-today/296854/56 "2005-03-31T00:06:03Z")
> [@FinnAgain](#): > > So while he was on his rise to power he was, in his own words, a total cokehead. This doesn’t mean he was less qualified? :dubious: What? When he was more than qualified when he was hired. His resume was better than most people’s at that point. Just because he began to fuck up means nothing. > [@FinnAgain](#): > > I’ve already furnished you with quotes that the Times was more agressive in keeping him on than if he’d not been black. Obviously the behavioral abnormalities native to cokeheads were overlooked due to their policies regarding AA. Has nothing to do with AA. [This](http://www.bostonphoenix.com/boston/news_features/dont_quote_me/multi-page/documents/04284663.asp) words my sentiments nicely. > [@](#): > > But if Blair’s story is most definitely not a cautionary tale about affirmative action, his race is, nevertheless, relevant to what happened at the Times. That’s because Raines himself was unusually susceptible to the charms of an ambitious young black reporter. A liberal who grew up in segregated Alabama, Raines was a lifelong crusader for racial equality; his sincerity was unquestioned, even if it occasionally came across in a condescending manner. Blair did get his foot in the door at the Times through a minority internship program, but affirmative action hardly explains what happened once he was put on staff. In Mnookin’s telling, though, how Blair’s race may have played to the sensibilities and insecurities of the Times’ white Southern editor explains a lot. Blair was. if nothing else, a great liar. Like any great liar, he prays on peoples weaknesses to further his own goals. The fact that he was black is incidental. If he was white, he would have made up stories about growing up in segregated Alabama to endear himself to Raines. To point to a AA is crazy. In [this](http://slate.msn.com/id/2082896/#ContinueArticle) article, a reporter gives insight as to how skillful a liar Blair was. > [@](#): > > I wouldn’t deny anybody the joy of pillorying the Times, but don’t automatically assume you’d have policed the Blair beat any better. My friend Dennis Cauchon, a national reporter for USA Today, no softie when it comes to his scorn for the Times’ handling of the episode, kicks himself for not uncovering Blair’s fictions. Cauchon writes via e-mail: > > We covered two of the same stories: MIA Jessica Lynch in Palestine, W. Virginia, and MIA Brandon Sloan in Cleveland. I commented to USA Today colleagues that it was odd that I didn’t see a New York Times reporter—I always look—at the scene and how the New York Times stories were full of inexplicable errors. In Palestine, he described the road to Lynch’s house as a one-lane gravel road when it’s a narrow two-lane paved road. How do you get that wrong? I wondered. And he got the name wrong: it’s Mayberry, not Mulberry. How do you get that wrong when Mayberry is so much better? He described a church service in Cleveland that I attended with four other reporters. When I read his account eight days later, I thought, gee, he must have kept a very low profile because the church wasn’t that big and I didn’t see him. Good for him, I thought. And good for him for getting an interview with the minister father who refused to talk that day, other than receiving line chit-chat, saying it was a day of worship. The story had factual errors, including that the service happened a week earlier than the story indicated. But I chalked it up [to] … well, nothing. I just thought it was odd. > > That Blair hoodwinked Cauchon, as doubting a skeptic as you’ll ever meet, proves to me how unwilling we all are to believe that a trusted reporter would lie, lie again, and lie some more. > > The obvious parallels between the Jayson Blair caper and the spy escapades of Aldrich Ames and Robert Hanssen should sober the gotcha patrol currently buzz-bombing Howell Raines. Accomplished liars will beat polygraphs, mislead interrogators, and hoodwink the most sophisticated security regime. So hate Raines as much as you want, and denounce the Times to your heart’s content, and demand as much genuflecting from the paper’s editors as you desire. Just remember the last time you were conned. Blair was a master of deception. Just like most white reporters caught plagiarizing, he was able to con people using every advantage he had. It has nothing to do with program aimed at diversity. > [@FinnAgain](#): > > How would hiring based only on merit ensure that merit was the prime characteristic they selected on? Jeez, I have no idea. You would have a point if AA resulted in unqualified people being hired to do jobs. More specifically, Jayson Blair being unqualified to work at the NYT. He was qualified. His was a good candidate on paper. Him being black had nothing to do with him being hired. If there was no program, he would have been hired anyway. To blame AA is erroneous. ---
**Author:** ![Weirddave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/919ad9/32.png) [@Weirddave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Weirddave)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2005, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-i-pit-aspects-of-the-african-american-culture-of-today/296854/57 "2005-03-31T00:17:53Z")
> [@brickbacon](#): > > You would have a point if AA resulted in unqualified people being hired to do jobs. More specifically, Jayson Blair being unqualified to work at the NYT. He was qualified. > > His was a good candidate on paper. Him being black had nothing to do with him being hired. If there was no program, he would have been hired anyway. To blame AA is erroneous. Than it must be equally erroneous to claim that his firing damaged AA, right? Since he wasn’t an AA case and all. Unless you’re one of those idiots who is convinced that everything is due to race, anyway. ---
**Author:** ![brickbacon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/898d66/32.png) [@brickbacon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brickbacon)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2005, 12:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-i-pit-aspects-of-the-african-american-culture-of-today/296854/58 "2005-03-31T00:31:10Z")
> [@Weirddave](#): > > Than it must be equally erroneous to claim that his firing damaged AA, right? Since he wasn’t an AA case and all. > Unless you’re one of those idiots who is convinced that everything is due to race, anyway. I didn’t say it damaged AA. I said it makes it harder for other black people. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2005, 12:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-i-pit-aspects-of-the-african-american-culture-of-today/296854/59 "2005-03-31T00:41:32Z")
> [@brickbacon](#): > > What? When he was more than qualified when he was hired. His resume was better than most people’s at that point. Just because he began to fuck up means nothing. Yes, it does. I’ve provided you with Raines’ quote. Twice now. > [@brickbacon](#): > > Has nothing to do with AA. [This](http://www.bostonphoenix.com/boston/news_features/dont_quote_me/multi-page/documents/04284663.asp) words my sentiments nicely. Yes… and yet I’ve already shown you that Raines kept him on staff longer than he would had he not been black. There’s no evading that I’m afraid. No matter what anybody else tries to say Raines really thought, we have Raines’ own words. > [@brickbacon](#): > > Blair was. if nothing else, a great liar. Like any great liar, he prays on peoples weaknesses to further his own goals. The fact that he was black is incidental. If he was white, he would have made up stories about growing up in segregated Alabama to endear himself to Raines. To point to a AA is crazy. Hrmmm. Let’s see. We have Raines’ own words, and we have your spin. And to listen to what Raines himself said is crazy? Mmmm hmmm. > [@brickbacon](#): > > Blair was a master of deception. Just like most white reporters caught plagiarizing, he was able to con people using every advantage he had. It has nothing to do with program aimed at diversity. Do I have to repost, a third time, what Raines himself said? Claim it had nothing to do with diversity, and do it over, and over, and over again. But you’ll still be wrong. > [@brickbacon](#): > > You would have a point if AA resulted in unqualified people being hired to do jobs. More specifically, Jayson Blair being unqualified to work at the NYT. He was qualified. Hrm. He was hired when he was, what, 23 or 24? And fired when he was 27? And during this time he was a ‘total cokehead’, in his own words. And you’re **still** going to claim he was qualified? Leaving aside his drug abuse, let’s see what else we can find on this ‘qualified’ individual. [“Blair was hired as part of an affirmative-action program (the Times itself has admitted that it “offered him a slot in an internship program that was being used to help the paper diversify its newsroom”) and clearly kept on long after it was obvious that he could not write stories without making things up (he’d already been bounced from the metropolitan desk for “mistakes and unprofessional behavior,” according to the Associated Press). Indeed, one of Blair’s editors sent an e-mail to newsroom editors over a year ago that said, “We have to stop Jayson from writing for the Times. Right now.”” \"(Blair came to the Times without graduating from Maryland)"](http://nationalreview.com/clegg/clegg051303.asp) [“At summer’s end, The Times offered Mr. Blair an extended internship, but he had more college course work to do before his scheduled graduation in December 1998. When he returned to the Times newsroom in June 1999, Ms. Rule said, everyone assumed he had graduated. He had not; college officials say he has more than a year of course work to complete.”](http://www.gothamist.com/archives/2003/05/11/ambition_to_burn_jayson_blair_at_the_new_york_times.php) ["By January 2001, Blair had worked his way from police reporter to staff reporter on the metropolitan desk, even though some of the editors with whom he worked expressed concerns about his work, according to the Times investigation. In April 2002, Jonathan Landman, the metropolitan editor, was so concerned about the quality of Blair’s work and the number of errors he was making that he sent an e-mail to newsroom administrators saying, “We have to stop Jayson from writing for the Times. Right now.” Blair was eventually promoted. "](http://www.cnn.com/2003/US/Northeast/05/10/ny.times.reporter/) > [@brickbacon](#): > > His was a good candidate on paper. Him being black had nothing to do with him being hired. If there was no program, he would have been hired anyway. To blame AA is erroneous. Again, yes, some of his early work looked good. But the Raines quote **clearly** states that he was given preferential treatment due to the color of his skin. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2005, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-i-pit-aspects-of-the-african-american-culture-of-today/296854/60 "2005-03-31T00:42:50Z")
> [@brickbacon](#): > > I didn’t say it damaged AA. I said it makes it harder for other black people. And you still haven’t proven that claim. But you keep repeating it. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-i-pit-aspects-of-the-african-american-culture-of-today/296854.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-i-pit-aspects-of-the-african-american-culture-of-today/296854.md?page=4)