# In which I pit authors. **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [May 10, 2006, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-i-pit-authors/356226 "2006-05-10T15:08:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2006, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-i-pit-authors/356226/1 "2006-05-10T15:08:57Z")
You know, I may not be the sharpest knife in the drawer but I have a natural curiousity about many things. Things like politics, social evolution theories, how the mind works, history, risk and social economics, religion, etc… So when I pick out a book that seems well reviewed and topical (for me), I don’t want to be badgered by the author desperate attempts to drive a point home. I give you my most recent reads: [The World is Flat](http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0374292884/qid=1147273022/sr=2-1/ref=pd_bbs_b_2_1/103-1760564-4639021?s=books&v=glance&n=283155) [Fooled by Randomness](http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0812975219/sr=1-1/qid=1147272966/ref=sr_1_1/103-1760564-4639021?%5Fencoding=UTF8) [Triathlon Swimming Made Easy](http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1931009074/qid=1147273087/sr=2-1/ref=pd_bbs_b_2_1/103-1760564-4639021?s=books&v=glance&n=283155) In each and every case the single biggest problem with these tomes is that the covers are too far apart. Without fail, the author of each book states an idea and then begins to provide example after example after example (ad nausium) as proof of his argument. It gets to the point where I feel like I’m being badgered into agreeing with his arguments. More examples to restate what he’s just argued earlier doesn’t make me want to agree with the idea any more. It makes me wonder why he’s trying so hard to convince me he’s right. I can generally recognize a thought worthy idea or argument. One good example goes a long way to illustrate that argument. Three, four and five re-iterations on a theme make me think the author is substituting quantity for quality. Say what you have to say. Provide a good example and move on to the next idea. Stop trying to drive the point into the back of my brain with more of the same. It makes you less credible and me annoyed and less inclined to subscribe to your newsletter. Am I the only one who thinks that many recent books would be better off as pamphlets? ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2006, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-i-pit-authors/356226/2 "2006-05-10T15:14:58Z")
I guess I should include publishers and editors on my complaint list. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2006, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-i-pit-authors/356226/3 "2006-05-10T15:36:44Z")
So, you think books repeatedly state their point? That they keep using examples of what they’re trying to prove, _ad nauseum_? They’re redundantly padding with too many illustrations of their premise? They clog their tomes with over-abundant descriptions of their hypotheses? ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2006, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-i-pit-authors/356226/4 "2006-05-10T15:42:49Z")
> [@Ludovic](#): > > So, you think books repeatedly state their point? That they keep using examples of what they’re trying to prove, _ad nauseum_? They’re redundantly padding with too many illustrations of their premise? They clog their tomes with over-abundant descriptions of their hypotheses? Indeed. And some fill a much needed gap on a subject. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![davenportavenger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/5f8ce5/32.png) [@davenportavenger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davenportavenger)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2006, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-i-pit-authors/356226/5 "2006-05-10T15:54:59Z")
Read more fiction. ---
**Author:** ![eleanorigby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ee7513/32.png) [@eleanorigby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eleanorigby)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2006, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-i-pit-authors/356226/6 "2006-05-10T15:58:05Z")
This is why I never read _Future Shock_ --the author explained his premise in the Introduction (and very verbose he was, too), so why read the book? Saved me hours of reading. ---
**Author:** ![KGS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/90ced4/32.png) [@KGS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KGS)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2006, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-i-pit-authors/356226/7 "2006-05-10T17:04:00Z")
Too many writers ignore the most important rule of style: OMIT NEEDLESS WORDS. I don’t read much non-fiction, but I see it all the time in works of fiction, especially with overly verbose writers like J.K. Rowling, and _especially_ Stephen King. I’m a writer myself, so I understand the problem. As a writer, you have all these ideas. They excite you, and inspire you. You want to tell the world, _every single idea_ in your head. Writing is an inherently narcissistic art form, so it’s very easy to forget, the most important thing is not your ideas, not the person expressing them, but the Reader – your audience, the people to whom you are expressing your ideas. After all, they are the ones who are buying your books, giving you M-O-N-E-Y so you can afford to quit your day job and keep on writing, keep on coming up with more ideas. That’s why every good writer needs an equally good editor. If you can’t find a good editor, you have to do it yourself. Identify the most important ideas, the critical elements that sell your story, or the premise you established in the introductory chapter. The rest…get rid of 'em. Break out the old red pen and start slashing away. (The writer’s term for this, by the way, is “killing your children” – and yes, sometimes it feels exactly like that.) Of course, words aren’t _real_ children – this ain’t _Sophie’s Choice_ here. So figure out what point you want to make, and what words need to be said to support your point. Eliminate the rest. Otherwise, your audience will wind up on the Internet somewhere, complaining about how you talk too damn much. 🆒 ---
**Author:** ![Snickers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/5daacb/32.png) [@Snickers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snickers)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2006, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-i-pit-authors/356226/8 "2006-05-10T17:30:06Z")
I’ve heard it as “murder your darlings,” but \*\*KGS \*\*is still spot on. ---
**Author:** ![Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otto)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2006, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-i-pit-authors/356226/9 "2006-05-10T17:41:47Z")
> [@davenportavenger](#): > > Read more fiction. Oh yeah, because fiction writers are notable in their unwillingness to lard up a narrative. ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Clam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/3bc359/32.png) [@Happy\_Clam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Clam)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2006, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-i-pit-authors/356226/10 "2006-05-10T18:02:35Z")
> [@](#): > > Oh yeah, because fiction writers are notable in their unwillingness to lard up a narrative. Good ones are. J.K. Rowling, Stephen King, _insert verbose badauthor here_ aren’t. ---
**Author:** ![dangermom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e274bd/32.png) [@dangermom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dangermom)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2006, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-i-pit-authors/356226/11 "2006-05-10T18:09:32Z")
Yep. I have a few books I would enjoy much more if they were pamphlets instead of 400-page books. Good idea, bad padding. ---
**Author:** ![flight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bbce88/32.png) [@flight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flight)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2006, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-i-pit-authors/356226/12 "2006-05-10T18:14:20Z")
> [@Snickers](#): > > I’ve heard it as “murder your darlings,” but \*\*KGS \*\*is still spot on. This is what I have heard as well (attributed to Sir Arthur Quiller-Couch), but not to mean, “remove extraneous ideas”, but rather “remove the ideas or turns of phrase you are most fond of”. The idea is that your favorite segments will be there because you like them so much, not because they benefit the narratiive, and inevitably the story will be forced to fit around them, which results in bad writing. ---
**Author:** ![Taber](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ac91a4/32.png) [@Taber](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Taber)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2006, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-i-pit-authors/356226/13 "2006-05-10T19:32:47Z")
> [@KGS](#): > > Too many writers ignore the most important rule of style: OMIT NEEDLESS WORDS. > > I don’t read much non-fiction, but I see it all the time in works of fiction, especially with overly verbose writers like J.K. Rowling, and _especially_ Stephen King. I’m a writer myself, so I understand the problem. As a writer, you have all these ideas. They excite you, and inspire you. You want to tell the world, _every single idea_ in your head. Writing is an inherently narcissistic art form, so it’s very easy to forget, the most important thing is not your ideas, not the person expressing them, but the Reader – your audience, the people to whom you are expressing your ideas. After all, they are the ones who are buying your books, giving you M-O-N-E-Y so you can afford to quit your day job and keep on writing, keep on coming up with more ideas. > > That’s why every good writer needs an equally good editor. If you can’t find a good editor, you have to do it yourself. Identify the most important ideas, the critical elements that sell your story, or the premise you established in the introductory chapter. The rest…get rid of 'em. Break out the old red pen and start slashing away. (The writer’s term for this, by the way, is “killing your children” – and yes, sometimes it feels exactly like that.) > > Of course, words aren’t _real_ children – this ain’t _Sophie’s Choice_ here. So figure out what point you want to make, and what words need to be said to support your point. Eliminate the rest. Otherwise, your audience will wind up on the Internet somewhere, complaining about how you talk too damn much. 🆒 can be pared down to this by removing words, without changing meaning (though some emphasis is lost): - Too many writers ignore the most important rule of style: OMIT NEEDLESS WORDS. I don’t read much non-fiction, but I see it all the time in fiction, especially with verbose writers like J.K. Rowling, and Stephen King. I’m a writer, so I understand. As a writer, you have all these ideas. They excite you, and inspire you. You want to tell the world, _every single idea_ in your head. Writing is a narcissistic art form, so it’s easy to forget, the most important thing is not your ideas, not the person expressing them, but the Reader – your audience, the people to whom you are expressing your ideas. After all, they are the ones who are buying your books, giving you M-O-N-E-Y so you can afford to quit your day job and keep on writing, keep on coming up with more ideas. That’s why every good writer needs a good editor. If you can’t find a good editor, you have to do it yourself. Identify the most important ideas, the critical elements that sell your story, or the premise you established in the introductory chapter. The rest…get rid of 'em. Break out the old red pen and start slashing away. (The writer’s term for this, by the way, is “killing your children” – and yes, sometimes it feels exactly like that.) words aren’t children – this ain’t _Sophie’s Choice_ here. So figure out what point you want to make, and what words need to be said to support your point. Eliminate the rest. Otherwise, your audience will wind up on the Internet, complaining about how you talk too much. 🆒 \* If we want to eliminate excess sentences, we can go down to, however the idea idea is kind of downplayed in this version: \* Too many writers ignore the most important rule of style: OMIT NEEDLESS WORDS. I don’t read much non-fiction, but I see it all the time in fiction, especially with verbose writers like J.K. Rowling, and Stephen King. I’m a writer, so I understand. As a writer, you have all these ideas. You want to tell the world, _every single idea_ in your head. Writing is a narcissistic art form, so it’s very easy to forget, the most important thing is the Reader. After all, they are the ones who are buying your books, giving you M-O-N-E-Y. That’s why every good writer needs an equally good editor. If you can’t find a good editor, you have to do it yourself. Identify the most important ideas. The rest…get rid of 'em. So figure out what point you want to make, and what words need to be said to support your point. Eliminate the rest. Otherwise, your audience will wind up on the Internet somewhere, complaining about how you talk too damn much. 🆒 \* you can thank me later 😛 ---
**Author:** ![KGS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/90ced4/32.png) [@KGS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KGS)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2006, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-i-pit-authors/356226/14 "2006-05-10T20:37:23Z")
> [@Taber](#): > > can be pared down to this by removing words, without changing meaning (though some emphasis is lost): > … > If we want to eliminate excess sentences, we can go down to, however the idea idea is kind of downplayed in this version: > … > you can thank me later 😛 Heh. Like I said, every writer needs an editor. I do see you’re part of the Anti-Adverb faction, though. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2006, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-i-pit-authors/356226/15 "2006-05-10T22:47:00Z")
> [@KGS](#): > > Too many writers ignore the most important rule of style: OMIT NEEDLESS WORDS. > > I don’t read much non-fiction, but I see it all the time in works of fiction, especially with overly verbose writers like J.K. Rowling, and _especially_ Stephen King. … but the Reader – your audience, the people to whom you are expressing your ideas. After all, they are the ones who are buying your books, giving you M-O-N-E-Y so you can afford to quit your day job and keep on writing, keep on coming up with more ideas. And, obviously, readers are so disgusted with the verboseness of Rowling and King that they are attempting to drown those writers in money. ---
**Author:** ![AncientHumanoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ancienthumanoid/32/278_2.png) [@AncientHumanoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AncientHumanoid)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2006, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-i-pit-authors/356226/16 "2006-05-10T23:12:35Z")
It’s a problem others have noted in the past. [Ecclesiastes 12:11,12](http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=eccl%2012:11,12;&version=50;) > [@](#): > > The words of the wise are like goads, and the words of scholars are like well-driven nails, given by one Shepherd. And further, my son, be admonished by these. Of making many books there is no end, and much study is wearisome to the flesh. ---
**Author:** ![AncientHumanoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ancienthumanoid/32/278_2.png) [@AncientHumanoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AncientHumanoid)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2006, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-i-pit-authors/356226/17 "2006-05-10T23:18:25Z")
In the same line of thought, I also enjoy [Ecclesiastes 5:3](http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=eccl%205:3;&version=50;) > [@](#): > > For a dream comes through much activity, and a fool’s voice is known by his many words. ---
**Author:** ![Giraffe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giraffe/32/129_2.png) [@Giraffe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giraffe)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2006, 3:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-i-pit-authors/356226/18 "2006-05-11T03:41:29Z")
Bosom heaving, the literary discussion moved boldly and with great purpose to Cafe Society, where it encountered other like-minded souls. “Oh!” it exclaimed. ---
**Author:** ![KGS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/90ced4/32.png) [@KGS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KGS)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2006, 4:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-i-pit-authors/356226/19 "2006-05-11T04:03:04Z")
> [@Giraffe](#): > > Bosom heaving, the literary discussion moved boldly and with great purpose to Cafe Society, where it encountered other like-minded souls. “Oh!” it exclaimed. You write slashfic, don’t you? 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Shalmanese](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/45deac/32.png) [@Shalmanese](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shalmanese)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2006, 4:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-i-pit-authors/356226/20 "2006-05-11T04:09:33Z")
Brevity is… wit! [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-i-pit-authors/356226.md?page=2)