# In which I pit blind, bigoted hatred.... **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 11, 2004, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-i-pit-blind-bigoted-hatred/254602 "2004-07-11T20:33:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Early\_Out](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/6f9a4e/32.png) [@Early\_Out](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Early_Out)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2004, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-i-pit-blind-bigoted-hatred/254602/21 "2004-07-11T22:41:41Z")
> [@Lissa](#): > > …I was wondering if anyone has seen confirmation of … the story that John Ashcroft anointed himself with cooking oil after he was appointed Attorney General. This has been reported in a number of places, including [CNN](http://www.cnn.com/ALLPOLITICS/time/2001/01/22/son.html) and [The Guardian](http://www.guardian.co.uk/bush/story/0,7369,661458,00.html). ---
**Author:** ![Early\_Out](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/6f9a4e/32.png) [@Early\_Out](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Early_Out)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2004, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-i-pit-blind-bigoted-hatred/254602/22 "2004-07-11T22:46:37Z")
In fact, according to [this source](http://quest.cjonline.com/stories/011101/gen_0111017691.shtml), Ashcroft himself described his anointment upon the commencement of each of his gubernatorial terms, as well as the day he was sworn in to the U.S. Senate. Actually, upon re-reading, it appears that the “cooking oil” anointment refers to the day he became a Senator. It’s not clear what happened when he became the AG, but one would have to assume that he stuck with his “anoint me with oil” routine. ---
**Author:** ![Early\_Out](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/6f9a4e/32.png) [@Early\_Out](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Early_Out)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2004, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-i-pit-blind-bigoted-hatred/254602/23 "2004-07-11T22:52:12Z")
[Another source](http://dispatches.phoblacht.net/archive/dispatch288.htm) states that when Ashcroft became AG, Justice Clarence Thomas was Zadok: > [@](#): > > When Mr Ashcroft was in the Senate, the duty was performed by his father, a senior minister in a church specialising in speaking in tongues, the Pentecostal Assemblies of God. When he became attorney general, Clarence Thomas, a supreme court justice, did the honours. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9fc348/32.png) [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Flying_Dutchman)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2004, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-i-pit-blind-bigoted-hatred/254602/24 "2004-07-11T22:54:00Z")
**Aldebaran** , You are the biggest asshole to have ever posted to this board. **Daisy** , sorry but third hand hearsay doesn’t qualify as proof. ---
**Author:** ![Aldebaran](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Aldebaran](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aldebaran)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2004, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-i-pit-blind-bigoted-hatred/254602/25 "2004-07-11T22:57:30Z")
grienspace, don’t start crying next time the USA gets what we have to deal here with THANKS TO THE SICK CRIMINAL YOU ADORE. ---
**Author:** ![Daisy\_Mae](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/46a35a/32.png) [@Daisy\_Mae](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Daisy_Mae)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2004, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-i-pit-blind-bigoted-hatred/254602/26 "2004-07-11T23:03:30Z")
> [@grienspace](#): > > **Aldebaran** , You are the biggest asshole to have ever posted to this board. > > **Daisy** , sorry but third hand hearsay doesn’t qualify as proof. Naturally, with that statement I can assume that you’re not a Christian because translation after translation is how we got THAT story. I never said it was fact. I wasn’t there and I’d wager that no one else on the board was there so I’m thinking that you’re not going to get direct proof. Something tells me that if there was proof (better than a translation of the meeting’s minutes like mentioned in the article by the Washington Post) that it wouldn’t be good enough for you anyway. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9fc348/32.png) [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Flying_Dutchman)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2004, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-i-pit-blind-bigoted-hatred/254602/27 "2004-07-11T23:06:31Z")
> [@Aldebaran](#): > > grienspace, don’t start crying next time the USA gets what we have to deal here with THANKS TO THE SICK CRIMINAL YOU ADORE. Got news for you. As I’ve stated before, Bush lost my respect with his support of a constitutional amendment aimed to thwart the aspirations of a constituency under his leadership. ---
**Author:** ![Carbona\_Not\_Glue](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/3bc359/32.png) [@Carbona\_Not\_Glue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Carbona_Not_Glue)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2004, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-i-pit-blind-bigoted-hatred/254602/28 "2004-07-11T23:08:55Z")
> [@grienspace](#): > > **Aldebaran** , You are the biggest asshole to have ever posted to this board. > > **Daisy** , sorry but third hand hearsay doesn’t qualify as proof. No, you’re an asshole because you can’t see out of your blinded jingoistic worldview. There are thousands of people needlessly suffering in the Middle East for no good reason, or at least no good TRUE reason. Had America gone over to take out Saddam Hussein because he was a danger to his own people, then that would be one thing, and I would applaud the US for it especially if they tried to keep senseless killing and torture to a minimum. The problem is, they didn’t and they haven’t. There are monsters of Saddam’s ilk and worse who are wandering around the world unmolested because they happen to support American policy, or because they provide America with advantages. I see we’re not bothering with a lot of the volatile African situations, or at least not on a scale that the Iraq War is on, because those poor Africans are so unfortunate not to have oil or anything else we want. So we leave it up to the French to clean up the messes that we (and to be honest, the French and Belgians also) made. I have seen, in my lurking,\*\* Aldebaran \*\*get overly (and unjustly, I thought) hostile to Americans. However, he has also made some good points, which he is making now. He may not be in Iraq, but I’m not in Virginia. However, if D.C. was firebombed or smartbombed or whatever, I would get righteously indignant. You know why? My loved ones live there–and furthermore, I love America and I think it has many good things in it. Also, I do not like to see anyone–ANYONE–killed or tortured unjustly, be they American, Iraqi, or Martian. We Americans throw a fit when several thousand of our own are killed gruesomely on September 11, but we dismiss tens of thousands of innocent Iraqi children and parents who are killed in this war as “collateral damage.” Oops–sorry about that smart bomb, we thought we could actually guide it to where the bad guys are. Americans are some of the best, smartest, funniest, and kindest people I’ve ever met–I should know, I am one. Furthermore, my SO would agree with me, and he’s not one. But–the fervor with which people are damning innocent Iraqis sickens me. I know some soldiers will not kill unless they’re given no other choice–but far too many of them kill at will, whenever it suits. And GWB is the same way–so they’re just following their orders and his magnificient example. I realize I talked a lot here, but this hit a nerve. My SO is part Arabic, and I have Arabic friends, so maybe that’s part of it. But it also could be that I cannot stand to see anyone undeserving be hurt on the part of someone else’s selfishness. ---
**Author:** ![fortytwo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/f9ae1b/32.png) [@fortytwo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fortytwo)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2004, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-i-pit-blind-bigoted-hatred/254602/29 "2004-07-11T23:09:24Z")
> [@Muad'Dib](#): > > … This is not as pleasent a place to be as it once was. Really? As pleasant as [this](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=245065) for instance? Quote: You disgusting, sniveling little cowards. Yeah, capitulating to the monsters that just killed hundreds of your people is the right thing to do. You have played into their hands. You have acted just as they desired. Yes, the terrorists have won, because Spain lacks the fucking balls to stand up for itself. You are a spineless excuse for human beings, and after an act like this you deserve nothing but the scorn and hatred of any future victims of terrorist slaughter. _Spits in the face of all those who self-righteously claimed that they were “voting for peace”_ ---
**Author:** ![Early\_Out](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/6f9a4e/32.png) [@Early\_Out](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Early_Out)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2004, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-i-pit-blind-bigoted-hatred/254602/30 "2004-07-11T23:09:46Z")
> [@grienspace](#): > > **Daisy** , sorry but third hand hearsay doesn’t qualify as proof. Other than the quote provided by **Daisy** , which has been reported in a number of places, of all political stripes, there is this passage from [this source](http://www.talonnews.com/news/2004/may/0507_bush_prayer.shtml): > [@](#): > > Gathering in the East Room of the White House, Bush asked Americans to use this day of prayer to remember those involved in the ongoing war on terrorism, including the American soldiers as well as the people of Iraq, Afghanistan and the Middle East. > > “We cannot be neutral in the face of injustice, or cruelty, or evil,” Bush remarked. “God is not on the side of any nation, but He is on the side of justice. And it is the deepest strength of America that from the hour of our founding, we have chosen justice as our goal.” > > [snip] > > With his comments being broadcast nationwide on religious television, Bush boldly proclaimed, “Our calling is to align our hearts and action with God’s plan – insofar as we can know it.” Sure sounds to me like he thinks he’s doing God’s work. ---
**Author:** ![Brutus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/91b2a8/32.png) [@Brutus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brutus)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2004, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-i-pit-blind-bigoted-hatred/254602/31 "2004-07-11T23:12:10Z")
> [@Aldebaran](#): > > grienspace, don’t start crying next time the USA gets what we have to deal here with THANKS TO THE SICK CRIMINAL YOU ADORE. Nice. So GW will be the cause of the next terrorist attack by Islamists here in the US. But what caused 9/11? Did your folks just want to get a head-start on our Most Adored Sick Criminal? What caused the first WTC bombing? Did prescient wazirs order those attacks because someday we would elect our Most Adored Sick Criminal? How does the Most Adored Sick Criminal factor into the Achille Lauro or any of the attacks against us? ---
**Author:** ![Carbona\_Not\_Glue](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/3bc359/32.png) [@Carbona\_Not\_Glue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Carbona_Not_Glue)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2004, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-i-pit-blind-bigoted-hatred/254602/32 "2004-07-11T23:22:31Z")
> [@Brutus](#): > > Nice. So GW will be the cause of the next terrorist attack by Islamists here in the US. But what caused 9/11? Did your folks just want to get a head-start on our Most Adored Sick Criminal? What caused the first WTC bombing? Did prescient wazirs order those attacks because someday we would elect our Most Adored Sick Criminal? How does the Most Adored Sick Criminal factor into the Achille Lauro or any of the attacks against us? To be fair, Brutus, I don’t think Aldebaran is talking about September 11–I think he’s trying to say that the Iraq War can and probably will facilitate more anti-American sentiment in the Middle East, which, obviously, has never been one of our prime supporters. Some people are crazy…Hitler, Kim Jong-Il, Hussein, Bin Laden…just absolutely nuts. However, not everyone who endorsed Hilter was insane–just fed up. Similarly, those who subscribe to Bin Laden’s worldview are not all insane monsters–some are just fed up. I think classifying all terrorists as inhuman does all of us a great disservice. They’re human and they’re pissed off about something: more than likely the foreign policy that this administration (and administrations previous–Democrat and Republican) has used. Should we coddle terrorists? No! But I think we need to take a long hard look about how we’re treating peoples worldwide, both our allies (the French and Germans, for example) and our enemies. ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2004, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-i-pit-blind-bigoted-hatred/254602/33 "2004-07-11T23:27:43Z")
**Clothahump** , I would not call you an asshole for protesting blind, unreasoning hatred of George Bush – I find it obnoxious myself. People who object to the man for a variety of reasons, from the 2000 election to the War of Aggression on Iraq to the Federal Marriage Amendment, and state their arguments against him, strike me as having a fair amount of sanity behind why they dislike him. You are, of course, entitled to feel otherwise. Now, to some coherent points: 1. Not all liberals have a blind, unreasoning hatred of Mr. Bush. Some don’t hate him at all, they just feel that Mr. Kerry or Mr. Nader would make a better President. Some have grounds (see previous paragraph) for disliking him. 2. These days, not everyone who dislikes Mr. Bush is a liberal. Notice the polls lately? 3. Just for the record, nobody named “Algore” ran in the 2000 election, so far as I know, though there might have been a “Thomas Algore” on the ballot for the Daviess Co., Iowa, Board of Commissioners; I can’t be certain of that. That little cutesy reduces you to the level of someone who refers to the President as “Shrub,” in case you weren’t aware. 4. People who object to electoral theft – which is arguably what happened, and let’s not spend 150 posts arguing about whether it actually did – are not being “spoiled brats.” Either that, or Messrs. Washington, Adams, Hancock, Jefferson, Madison, etc., were spoiled brats who didn’t realize how good they had it under Lord North. Does the term “Watergate” ring a bell with you? Americans tend to believe that elections should be **honest**. 5. If you vote for Bush simply to protest liberals being outspoken, you deserve exactly what you get. And if Mr. Bush should win, I for one will cheerfully remind you of that every time you venture into a thread where political discussions are acceptable. It’s not the stupidest reason for casting a vote that I’ve ever heard, but it ranks quite high on the list. 6. Mr. Bush is entitled to opinions that contradict mine, and he’s not a liar for saying what he thinks. But if he knows one thing to be true and says something different for political reasons, you tell me what that makes him. 7. Having concluded this analysis, I find that my initial premise was faulty. Your basic statement appears to be that anyone who objects out loud to your political stance is dishing out bigotry and hatred. And **that** makes you an asshole. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9fc348/32.png) [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Flying_Dutchman)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2004, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-i-pit-blind-bigoted-hatred/254602/34 "2004-07-11T23:28:13Z")
\*\*Early Out \*\*, your cite does not support **Tom’s** claim that Bush said “that God has personally directed his actions regarding the Middle East”. ---
**Author:** ![Early\_Out](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/6f9a4e/32.png) [@Early\_Out](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Early_Out)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2004, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-i-pit-blind-bigoted-hatred/254602/35 "2004-07-11T23:53:20Z")
> [@grienspace](#): > > \*\*Early Out \*\*, your cite does not support **Tom’s** claim that Bush said “that God has personally directed his actions regarding the Middle East”. Well, if you’re waiting for Mr. Bush to come knock on your front door and say, “God has personally directed my actions regarding the Middle East,” I guess it’ll be a long wait. And it sounds as if you won’t accept a quote from a meeting at which you weren’t personally present. I certainly wouldn’t accuse **tomndebb** of being “a big fat liar” based solely upon the lack of a verbatim, first-hand quote. The quotes provided certainly lend credence to the idea that Bush believes that God is on his side, and it would be consistent with what we know of the man and his adminstration. ---
**Author:** ![glee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b5a626/32.png) [@glee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/glee)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2004, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-i-pit-blind-bigoted-hatred/254602/36 "2004-07-12T00:49:13Z")
> [@Clothahump](#): > > I’m frankly sick of the blind, unreasoning, bigoted hatred directed at George Bush. There isn’t a forum on the web these days that doesn’t have at least one asswipe show up in it to spew venom. I don’t like Bush. Because: - he ignored the UN and invaded Iraq on a false basis (the same criticism applies to Tony Blair, who, interestingly, heads a liberal, socialist party) - he claimed that Saddam Hussein was responsible for 9/11 (oh look, he lied!) - he authorised the imprisonment and torture of people in Guantanamo Bay, refusing them access to legal advice and their families This is not blind, unreasoning or bigoted. > [@Clothahump](#): > > I am going to wrap all of the people who do that up into one bag and call them liberals, because they are the vast majority of people doing it. The liberals have had their collective shorts in a wad ever since the 2000 elections (which, like it or not, Bush won - deal with it) and they have been getting more vicious and more bitter as time goes on. The 2000 elections were certainly embarrassing for the US. But it’s stuff like the US actions in Iraqi jails that appalls me. Doesn’t it bother you? > [@Clothahump](#): > > Now, I’m quite sure a bunch of the libs will now jump on board and post about what an asshole I am and stuff like that. Knock yourselves out. Just keep in mind that every post like that confirms the accuracy of what I have said. > > My $0.02 worth… Actually your post shows you have a blind, unreasoning, bigoted hatred of anyone who criticises Bush. I suppose that would also make you an asshole. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2004, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-i-pit-blind-bigoted-hatred/254602/37 "2004-07-12T01:07:11Z")
[According to Bob Woodward:](http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/04/15/60minutes/main612067.shtml) > [@](#): > > Having given the order, the president walked alone around the circle behind the White House. Months later, he told Woodward: “As I walked around the circle, I prayed that our troops be safe, be protected by the Almighty. Going into this period, I was praying for strength to do the Lord’s will. I’m surely not going to justify war based upon God. Understand that. Nevertheless, in my case, I pray that I be as good a messenger of his will as possible. And then, of course, I pray for forgiveness." > > Did Mr. Bush ask his father for any advice? “I asked the president about this. And President Bush said, ‘Well, no,’ and then he got defensive about it,” says Woodward. “Then he said something that really struck me. He said of his father, ‘He is the wrong father to appeal to for advice. The wrong father to go to, to appeal to in terms of strength.’ And then he said, ‘There’s a higher Father that I appeal to.’" > > Beyond not asking his father about going to war, Woodward was startled to learn that the president did not ask key cabinet members either. Spin it however you’d like, **grienspace**. Bush declined to seek advice from his father who had actually been president and presided over a war with Iraq and declined to seek advice from his own cabinet, declaring that he had appealed to God and saw himself as God’s messenger. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2004, 1:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-i-pit-blind-bigoted-hatred/254602/38 "2004-07-12T01:51:27Z")
[Here’s another example of the OP’s intellect](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=5051429&postcount=29). Hmmm…so apparently starting an unnecessary war based on deceit isn’t nearly as bad as getting head. Gotcha. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9fc348/32.png) [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Flying_Dutchman)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2004, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-i-pit-blind-bigoted-hatred/254602/39 "2004-07-12T01:54:08Z")
**Tom** you said you were opposed to Bush because," He claims that God has personally directed his actions regarding the Middle East." The implication of that statement would suggest he is a megalomaniac with a direct line to the Almighty and believing that God is in charge of America through him… In support of that view you present an account by Woodward, which I have no reason to doubt. But Bush’s relationship with God in regard to his decision making as reported by Woodward would be what I would expect from any christian president. Nothing here to suggest that God personally directed Bush. I’d suggest that it is you who is doing the spinning here. By the way, Clinton told Dan Rather that he prays often to God as well. ---
**Author:** ![Brutus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/91b2a8/32.png) [@Brutus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brutus)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2004, 2:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-i-pit-blind-bigoted-hatred/254602/40 "2004-07-12T02:05:29Z")
[This flash blurb](http://jibjab.com/thisland.html) neatly summarizes the positions of both sides around here. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-i-pit-blind-bigoted-hatred/254602.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-i-pit-blind-bigoted-hatred/254602.md?page=3)