# In which I pit Mary Jo Kopechne **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 27, 2009, 3:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-i-pit-mary-jo-kopechne/507871 "2009-08-27T03:47:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Sleeps\_With\_Butterflies](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@Sleeps\_With\_Butterflies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sleeps_With_Butterflies)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2009, 5:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-i-pit-mary-jo-kopechne/507871/21 "2009-08-27T05:11:33Z")
> [@Measure\_for\_Measure](#): > > Based on very limited information, IMHO, you’re acting like more of a thin-skinned dick than you actually are. Are you sure about that? [Let’s see mswas, let’s have some advice, shall we?](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=11469401&postcount=78) \*Mary Jo was responsible for her own subjugation. Whenever women stood up to Ted Kennedy and refused to get in his car when he was drunk, they didn’t get a ride from him. Kennedys are just men acting like Kennedys and getting trashed for it, nevermind that the patriarchal society that we have recently discarded had many rules governing the appropriately polite ways to approach women to ride in your car when you’re shitfaced, etiquette that has largely been lost. Kennedys like to fuck women, and there is nothing wrong with that. Some Kennedys are uncultivated swine, but so are dumb women who ride with drunk drivers by an equal measure. I am just sick of hearing how Ted Kennedy was so awful and Mary Jo should get a pass for getting in the car with a known womanizer and drunk, what a load of bullshit.\* Lawd a’mercy, that sounds like a load of shit doesn’t it? Sounded the same as when you spouted your idiocy in another thread. If I have to bear my responsibility for Walking While Female in your little world, Mary Jo can take her lumps for wanting to be in the Kennedy fold enough to take a ride from someone that was shitfaced. Right? Right? Do I think that she \*really \* deserved it? Nope. Nobody deserves to die so young and in such a stupid way, but you need to get a grip on yourself and pull your head out of your ass and rejoin the sane people of the world. Like mentioned previously in this thread, where was your passion in the other threads about her. Why now? What total horseshit that you don’t want to make this about Kennedy. You absolutely do while you hide behind your faux concern for this woman who has been dead longer than I’ve been alive. Oh what about her chilllllldren she didn’t get to have?!??!? Ohhhhh the humanity. Fuck off. ---
**Author:** ![BlankSlate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blankslate/32/80_2.png) [@BlankSlate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlankSlate)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2009, 5:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-i-pit-mary-jo-kopechne/507871/22 "2009-08-27T05:16:55Z")
Kopechne was a Soviet mole. She got what she deserved. ---
**Author:** ![Rubystreak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Rubystreak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rubystreak)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2009, 5:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-i-pit-mary-jo-kopechne/507871/23 "2009-08-27T05:18:34Z")
> [@mswas](#): > > I was obviously just trolling before right? I mean that’s all I do right? Special rules for **mswas** because **mswas** is a troll right? Isn’t that the gist of the last week? If weak-willed people get offended by something I write it must be because I intended to offend right? Is it weak-willed to note that you’ve taken up what, something like 5 threads across a bunch of forums on this now, and it’s making you look a little unbalanced? Do you really care THIS much about Mary Jo Kopechne all of a sudden? I doubt it. It’s not about her, it’s probably not about Ted Kennedy anymore either. It’s about you. > [@](#): > > So it goes like, it doesn’t belong in MPSIMS, put it in IMHO, I put it IMHO, no this belongs in the Pit, I put it in the Pit and they close it in the Pit because I’m trolling. > > That’s about the long and short of it right? Maybe it’s not trolling. Maybe it’s just attention whoring, or attempted suicide by mod at this point. You know I’m not even slightly a fan of yours, but my honest, well-intentioned advice to you at this point is to just STOP now. Walk away from the computer for a few days. Play with your daughter, do some online gaming, read a book, get some fresh air, anything but post on the Dope. You seem to be coming undone. Walk away. In a week no one will care anymore and life will go on. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2009, 5:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-i-pit-mary-jo-kopechne/507871/24 "2009-08-27T05:29:11Z")
I think the tenor of your posts speak for themselves, as well as the subtext, which is not nearly as subtle as you seem to think it is. I’d say your post and your previous thread lacked in judiciousness. There are good reasons to have disliked Ted Kennedy’s politics and there are good reasons for people to hold the opinion that justice was not done in the case. But dragging up Mary Jo Kopechne’s memory for the sole purpose of crapping on Ted Kennedy’s memory is ghoulishly ignoring the rest of her life and what she was about. It strikes me as robbing her grave, cutting off her skull and throwing it into the crowd at Kennedy’s funeral. Yeah, pretty shocking, but not a way to remember her. Of course, if you were to look into her life, you’d probably find that her politics offend you. That still wouldn’t make her deserve her fate on the day she died, or as fodder for opponents of her political ideals. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2009, 5:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-i-pit-mary-jo-kopechne/507871/25 "2009-08-27T05:44:18Z")
I’ve read several threads you’ve been in over the last couple of days, mswas, and you read as if you are on some kind of manic binge being fueled by alcohol and self pity, to put it mildly. I won’t tell you to stop because you wan’t pay any more attention to me than anyone else. I am simply relieved not to be around to watch you crash and burn in the RW. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2009, 5:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-i-pit-mary-jo-kopechne/507871/26 "2009-08-27T05:46:11Z")
> [@Rubystreak](#): > > Is it weak-willed to note that you’ve taken up what, something like 5 threads across a bunch of forums on this now, and it’s making you look a little unbalanced? Do you really care THIS much about Mary Jo Kopechne all of a sudden? I doubt it. It’s not about her, it’s probably not about Ted Kennedy anymore either. It’s about you. All of a sudden? Do I need some kind of authenticity pass to actually have felt a pang of sadness? Yes, it was all of a sudden. I had the thought, “Wow, this woman and the one thing she is going to be remembered for is about to be forgotten.” In people’s rush to stereotype me they never bothered to get to know why I might care about something. It’s not their responsibility to care obviously but there is a lot of projection going around. I mean why do I have to prove my authenticity cred to care about something? Maybe some of you will actually you know try to view me as a person sometime and realize that I care about things and am interested in things in a bit of an off- beat sort of way. If you bothered to know or care as I’ve said before I think like a writer, I am interested in the human condition, and this aspect of the human condition hit me suddenly like a ton of bricks. It was a window into mortality that I just didn’t have before. Yes, it was suddenly. But that doesn’t make it disingenuous. I was just like, “Fuck death is a bitch.” > [@](#): > > Maybe it’s not trolling. Maybe it’s just attention whoring, or attempted suicide by mod at this point. You know I’m not even slightly a fan of yours, but my honest, well-intentioned advice to you at this point is to just STOP now. Walk away from the computer for a few days. Play with your daughter, do some online gaming, read a book, get some fresh air, anything but post on the Dope. You seem to be coming undone. Walk away. In a week no one will care anymore and life will go on. You guys act like someone forces you to respond to me. I don’t single any of you out in particular. I post what is on my mind and then you respond or you don’t. I’m already there. I don’t care anymore. If you have a problem with it don’t post to me, it doesn’t matter to me. I have taken breaks today, I went to the park and played with my daughter. I spent a few hours playing Team Fortress. I watched a little bit of Top Chef _shrugs_ **Sleeps With Butterflies** A woman’s sovereignty is not in a man’s hands. That is all I have to say on that subject. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2009, 5:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-i-pit-mary-jo-kopechne/507871/27 "2009-08-27T05:47:15Z")
> [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > I’ve read several threads you’ve been in over the last couple of days, mswas, and you read as if you are on some kind of manic binge being fueled by alcohol and self pity, to put it mildly. > > I won’t tell you to stop because you wan’t pay any more attention to me than anyone else. I am simply relieved not to be around to watch you crash and burn in the RW. You guys really think that this forum is that significant don’t you? ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2009, 5:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-i-pit-mary-jo-kopechne/507871/28 "2009-08-27T05:52:01Z")
If you want to see my mindset at the moment. Here is the post. I’m actually kind of blissed out, and no I haven’t drank or taken any drugs, not for many days in fact. I’m in a good mood right now, the precise opposite of the mood I was in last night. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2009, 5:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-i-pit-mary-jo-kopechne/507871/29 "2009-08-27T05:56:03Z")
> [@mswas](#): > > You guys really think that this forum is that significant don’t you? No one cares what forum these things are in, at least I don’t. Iam talking about your online behavior, which has many similarities to drunken ranting. If you are not drunk, then you considerablly disturbed by something else, and I have no idea what. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2009, 6:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-i-pit-mary-jo-kopechne/507871/30 "2009-08-27T06:00:52Z")
A human drowns in just a few minutes. There was nothing to be done that could save her, given the technology of the time. Involuntary manslaughter, as this would’ve been classified at its worst, may have elicited a long term, but did not normally. Ergo: The OP should’ve complained 40 years ago. ---
**Author:** ![Rubystreak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Rubystreak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rubystreak)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2009, 6:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-i-pit-mary-jo-kopechne/507871/31 "2009-08-27T06:11:38Z")
> [@mswas](#): > > All of a sudden? Do I need some kind of authenticity pass to actually have felt a pang of sadness? Yes, it was all of a sudden. I had the thought, “Wow, this woman and the one thing she is going to be remembered for is about to be forgotten.” If it were just the one thread, OK. But it seems to have mushroomed into some sort of recent obsession, out of nowhere, which is why I say now, it’s not about her anymore, it’s about you and your issues here. That’s pretty disrespectful to her memory, that you’re now using her as a springboard to tweak noses and make some sort of stand against Mod Oppression or SDMB Partisanship or whatever. Please consider that, if you really do give a huge damn about Ms. Kopechne, using her to serve your own ends on a message board is not the best way to honor her death. > [@](#): > > In people’s rush to stereotype me they never bothered to get to know why I might care about something. It’s not their responsibility to care obviously but there is a lot of projection going around. I mean why do I have to prove my authenticity cred to care about something? You don’t have to prove anything, and you can care about whatever you want, but it’s clearly no longer about your deep caring about MJK, and that’s the part I’m commenting on. It’s part of a larger craziness that you’ve been demonstrating lately. Smells like a flame out, and it’s not worth it. > [@](#): > > You guys act like someone forces you to respond to me. I don’t single any of you out in particular. I post what is on my mind and then you respond or you don’t. I’m already there. I don’t care anymore. If you have a problem with it don’t post to me, it doesn’t matter to me. I know you realize that I am posting this out of genuine concern for you and not to taunt you or degrade you. I hope you will consider my advice. If it’s ego that’s not allowing you to walk away from all the arguing and craziness of late, lest your opponents think they’ve won, fuck 'em, and fuck ego. Just take a break and stop letting this place get to you. > [@](#): > > I have taken breaks today, I went to the park and played with my daughter. I spent a few hours playing Team Fortress. I watched a little bit of Top Chef _shrugs_ But then you logged on and drove right back into the crazy. Why? Just walk away and try really hard not to care about any of it for about a week. Not just half a day, a week. Seriously, it will do wonders for your disposition here. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2009, 6:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-i-pit-mary-jo-kopechne/507871/32 "2009-08-27T06:15:19Z")
There: [I am sorry](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=11489783#post11489783) **dropzone** I wasn’t alive 40 years ago, but I think you’re right, I don’t think Ted Kennedy was a murderer. That being said, may I be concerned about it in the present? ---
**Author:** ![freedumb2003](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c2a13f/32.png) [@freedumb2003](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/freedumb2003)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2009, 6:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-i-pit-mary-jo-kopechne/507871/33 "2009-08-27T06:16:26Z")
> [@mswas](#): > > That’s what you ghouls want right? Well here it’s in the Pit. I give up, lets here all the crass and cynical nastiness that you can muster. You want to have two pit threads of me at once? Have at it. > > Go for it fuckwads do you worst. > > Lets see if **GFactor** comes up with some specious reason to close it like **Twickster** and **Czarcasm** did. > > BTW, if it isn’t clear, I am pitting the nasty vile and hateful members of this board who feel they have to shout down or censor people, who are so narcissistic that they cannot imagine that someone might actually have felt sad over Mary Jo Kopechne today. I was directed here as a result of your particular comments. We clearly disagree about ideology but agree that Mary Jo was yet another (and the worst) cast-aside from the kennedy Royal family. That family was started in evil, progressed through evil and, God has called the last and most evil one back to face justice. And I am sure Mary Jo was the one who stuffed his butt into the elevator with only a “Down” button and pushed that button. Anyone who doesn’t think her death is not at his feet doesn’t know the facts of the case. The fact it happened a long time ago doesn’t change a thing. There is a reason there is no statute of limitations on murder. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2009, 6:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-i-pit-mary-jo-kopechne/507871/34 "2009-08-27T06:18:51Z")
> [@mswas](#): > > **dropzone** I wasn’t alive 40 years ago, but I think you’re right, I don’t think Ted Kennedy was a murderer. That being said, may I be concerned about it in the present? Based on what you just said? No, but you can still be a troll. ---
**Author:** ![freedumb2003](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c2a13f/32.png) [@freedumb2003](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/freedumb2003)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2009, 6:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-i-pit-mary-jo-kopechne/507871/35 "2009-08-27T06:20:01Z")
> [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > I’ve read several threads you’ve been in over the last couple of days, mswas, and you read as if you are on some kind of manic binge being fueled by alcohol and self pity, to put it mildly. > > I won’t tell you to stop because you wan’t pay any more attention to me than anyone else. I am simply relieved not to be around to watch you crash and burn in the RW. She now has supporters who don’t close their eyes to naked facts. The swimmer was as directly responsible for MJK’s death as if he had directly committed it. His after-the-fact lies about his “heroic efforts” don’t pass the laugh test, much less the smell test. Now justice shall be done. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2009, 6:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-i-pit-mary-jo-kopechne/507871/36 "2009-08-27T06:20:26Z")
> [@dropzone](#): > > Based on what you just said? No, but you can still be a troll. Just can’t get a break. lol ---
**Author:** ![freedumb2003](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c2a13f/32.png) [@freedumb2003](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/freedumb2003)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2009, 6:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-i-pit-mary-jo-kopechne/507871/37 "2009-08-27T06:27:56Z")
> [@mswas](#): > > Just can’t get a break. lol It is the mind-set. If people can ignore simple facts, they can ignore arguments based on those simple facts. As I said, you have supporters – I may be the most overt, but there are covert ones as well. People – many people – beyond these confines are observing this discussion. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2009, 6:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-i-pit-mary-jo-kopechne/507871/38 "2009-08-27T06:28:37Z")
> [@mswas](#): > > I was actually sad about it… Bullshit. Not true. Didn’t happen. Complete lie. You’re just a fucking attention whore. It’s certainly working out pretty well for you today, i must say. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2009, 6:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-i-pit-mary-jo-kopechne/507871/39 "2009-08-27T06:30:28Z")
> [@freedumb2003](#): > > There is a reason there is no statute of limitations on murder. You’re right - Ted’s corpse must be arrested immediately! ---
**Author:** ![freedumb2003](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c2a13f/32.png) [@freedumb2003](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/freedumb2003)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2009, 6:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-i-pit-mary-jo-kopechne/507871/40 "2009-08-27T06:34:19Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > You’re right - Ted’s corpse must be arrested immediately! No need. God and Mary Jo have him now – he will get the justice in the afterlife she was denied in this one. But to lionize this killer, this traitor (need I quote you from his attempt to undermine America’s effort to destroy Communism?), this philandering drunk? This supporter of our enemies? Ridiculous. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-i-pit-mary-jo-kopechne/507871.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-i-pit-mary-jo-kopechne/507871.md?page=3)