# In which I pit Mary Jo Kopechne **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 27, 2009, 3:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-i-pit-mary-jo-kopechne/507871 "2009-08-27T03:47:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![elbows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b3f665/32.png) [@elbows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elbows)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2009, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-i-pit-mary-jo-kopechne/507871/81 "2009-08-27T15:58:48Z")
“It’s not all about you, dear.” Actually a quick peak at her apology thread, (tangentaly related, yes?) would indicate otherwise. “I am misunderstood…I am a condescending prick…I am a jerk…I get my feelings hurt pretty easily…I am subject to mood swings…I am going nuts…I get very interested in small things…I am not very partisan…I am pretty much an independent…I am not a closet conservative…I am not a passionate progressive…I’m just kind of slightly liberal…I feel like I get attacked a lot…I am trying to piss them off…I tend to get very righteously indignant…” Almost 40 I’s. And completely avoiding the most important “I”, “I am off my meds!” Troll, attention whore, troll, attention whore — How to decide? ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2009, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-i-pit-mary-jo-kopechne/507871/82 "2009-08-27T16:24:32Z")
> [@Captain\_Carrot](#): > > You’ve started now three threads to bash his memory. No I didn’t. And that does not fit the criteria of what I was asking. I started three threads on Mary Jo Kopechne. Do you have evidence outside of this to believe that I dislike Ted Kennedy? > [@](#): > > Well how the hell else are we supposed to define conservativism? It’s an ideology. If you agree with what conservatives say a lot, that pretty much makes you a conservative. Umm, that’s a pretty simplistic way to look at human beings who are complex entities. I am rather centrist so a lot of the time I agree with conservatives. I agree a lot with the analysis conservatives have regarding many of the problems in our country. What puts me squarely liberal though is where I stand on policy goals. I think that there should be a public option for healthcare, but I am too ignorant to say what that should be. Single Payer seems good but I don’t understand the ins and outs well enough to have a real opinion. I am a strong believer in the second and tenth amendments so I guess that would put me on the conservative side, but one of the big reasons I support the tenth amendment is because I would like to see an end to the drug war and have it allowed in some states and prohibited in others based on the views of that state. I am pro gay marriage, but this stems from an individual liberty standpoint. Personally I’d like to see the government get out of the marriage game, remove any gender specific language and go with civil unions for all. Marriage is a personal and emotional thing, why should the government be the mediator? To be honest I think the government should stay out of social issues as much as possible. In short I am about as socially liberal as you can get. I’d call myself a libertarian, but for the fact that I do think the government has a positive role to play in the provision of resources. It doesn’t have to be either/or. Believe me, you’ll find it much easier to find posts by me trashing George W. Bush and his administration than you will find of me bashing Ted Kennedy. To be honest I am not very good at following specific senators and how they vote. If Kennedy was behind Cobra than that’s something I can get behind, but otherwise I really don’t know that much about him other than that he was a serious champion of health care reform. I really don’t see why it has to be one or the other. ---
**Author:** ![Mtgman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5a626/32.png) [@Mtgman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mtgman)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2009, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-i-pit-mary-jo-kopechne/507871/83 "2009-08-27T16:25:17Z")
> [@mswas](#): > > But I am not a conservative, that’s the funny part. But as far as the harassment goes I just got pissed off for a second then I retracted it before anyone responded. People blew it out of proportion they wouldn’t let me let it go and move on like I wanted to. _shrugs_ There is a tendency on this board to beat something to death. I’ve long thought **Lobohan** and **Bryan Ekers** follow me around. I mean of course it’s only because of common interests IE, Pile-ons of **mswas**. 😉 **Bryan Ekers** follows EVERYONE around. He’s freaking omni-present. Have you ever read a thread without him popping up in it? Frequently the first post with a one-liner. Ok, that’s an exaggeration, but not much of one. Enjoy, Steven ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2009, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-i-pit-mary-jo-kopechne/507871/84 "2009-08-27T16:26:27Z")
> [@Muffin](#): > > [With friends like us, what do the UK and Canada need with enemies? - The BBQ Pit - Straight Dope Message Board](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=529175) In which I say, if the US prices were to drop to equalize with Canadian prices the pharmaceutical companies would have to raise prices or lose a massive amount of their profit. That’s hardly saying that Canada should subsidize American drug prices, and I really don’t comprehend how you can even interpret it that way. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2009, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-i-pit-mary-jo-kopechne/507871/85 "2009-08-27T16:27:35Z")
> [@Mtgman](#): > > **Bryan Ekers** follows EVERYONE around. He’s freaking omni-present. Have you ever read a thread without him popping up in it? Frequently the first post with a one-liner. > > Ok, that’s an exaggeration, but not much of one. > > Enjoy, > Steven LOL, that’s what a lot of people are saying so I am willing to believe it. I’ve always kind of liked him because while he can be kind of a dick I never felt like there is genuine malice behind it. ---
**Author:** ![Ca3799](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9f8e36/32.png) [@Ca3799](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ca3799)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2009, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-i-pit-mary-jo-kopechne/507871/86 "2009-08-27T16:32:20Z")
Do you have the same feeling about Laura Bush and the driving accident/death she caused when she was a teen? Do you think she had been drinking? Do you think the road she was driving on was more or less dangerous than the one Kennedy took? ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2009, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-i-pit-mary-jo-kopechne/507871/87 "2009-08-27T16:38:41Z")
> [@Ca3799](#): > > Do you have the same feeling about Laura Bush and the driving accident/death she caused when she was a teen? Do you think she had been drinking? Do you think the road she was driving on was more or less dangerous than the one Kennedy took? I don’t think it’s a relevant comparison really. She was a teenager and she didn’t flee the scene. I don’t know if they had breathalyzer’s then, but if they did I am certain she took one…because she didn’t leave the scene. In your comparison all you do is point out that a teenage girl was more responsible than an adult man more than twice her age. I am perfectly comfortable with the double-standard here. I think an adult man should be held to a higher standard than a teenage girl, and in this comparison the teenage girl lived up to a higher standard. So no I don’t feel the same way because Laura Bush didn’t do the things that Ted Kennedy did that makes this a bad thing. You’re really missing the point. No one is upset that Ted Kennedy got into a car accident, they are upset that he fled the scene and waited to inform the authorities. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2009, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-i-pit-mary-jo-kopechne/507871/88 "2009-08-27T16:38:46Z")
> [@mswas](#): > > In which I say, if the US prices were to drop to equalize with Canadian prices the pharmaceutical companies would have to raise prices or lose a massive amount of their profit. > > That’s hardly saying that Canada should subsidize American drug prices, and I really don’t comprehend how you can even interpret it that way. You should go back and read what you posted. > [@With friends like us, what do the UK and Canada need with enemies?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/with-friends-like-us-what-do-the-uk-and-canada-need-with-enemies/507433/13): > > Can you explain to me why Canada deserves low drug prices but we don’t? > [@With friends like us, what do the UK and Canada need with enemies?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/with-friends-like-us-what-do-the-uk-and-canada-need-with-enemies/507433/17): > > I guess we need to get on that so that Canada can pay more. If you wish to continue your denials, you should post in that thread, not this one. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2009, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-i-pit-mary-jo-kopechne/507871/89 "2009-08-27T16:39:59Z")
> [@Ca3799](#): > > Do you have the same feeling about Laura Bush and the driving accident/death she caused when she was a teen? Do you think she had been drinking? Do you think the road she was driving on was more or less dangerous than the one Kennedy took? Snopes says there’s no evidence she was drinking whatsoever. It’s more likely that she was gabbing (there was another teenage girl in the car) and simply didn’t see the oncoming vehicle. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2009, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-i-pit-mary-jo-kopechne/507871/90 "2009-08-27T16:43:54Z")
> [@mswas](#): > > I don’t think it’s a relevant comparison really. She was a teenager and she didn’t flee the scene. I don’t know if they had breathalyzer’s then, but if they did I am certain she took one…because she didn’t leave the scene. So your concern is not related to person’s dying in accidents caused by others, but rather arises out of whether the person causing the accident reports it in a timely manner. Well, some say timeliness is next to godliness, so you are welcome to your opinion, but try not to pretend that your concern is for the person who died. ---
**Author:** ![elbows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b3f665/32.png) [@elbows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elbows)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2009, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-i-pit-mary-jo-kopechne/507871/91 "2009-08-27T16:47:36Z")
Laura Bush went through a stop sign, took a life, didn’t get so much as a ticket, never expressed a public regret, did not keep her out of the white house. Ted Kennedy, missed a turn, (confused from bump on head, did not call ems promptly), took a life, trialed in court, convicted in the press, never allowed to forget it, kept him out of the white house, expressed nothing but regret his entire career. I’m not debating whether either was guilty of anything criminal, they were accidents, after all. But it’s amusing to watch the Right’s outrage over one and complete equivocation of the other. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2009, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-i-pit-mary-jo-kopechne/507871/92 "2009-08-27T16:52:25Z")
> [@elbows](#): > > Laura Bush went through a stop sign, took a life, didn’t get so much as a ticket, never expressed a public regret, did not keep her out of the white house. FTR, I am very, very far from being on the right. However, Laura Welch (as she then was) was not a public figure at the time of the accident. She was the daughter of a well-to-do real estate magnate, but I doubt she was any more famous than you or I. Expecting an expression of “public regret” is ridiculous- although she certainly has expressed regret on the record. Moreover, she is not now and has never been a candidate for public office. It doesn’t matter if she clubbed Michael Vick’s rottweiler puppies for him; her criminal record has no bearing on her husband’s election, unless the voters choose to make it an issue. Now, seriously, shut up. You’re making our side look bad. Worse, you’re making us look stupid. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2009, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-i-pit-mary-jo-kopechne/507871/93 "2009-08-27T16:54:53Z")
But to put a finer point on it. The death of Michael Douglas who seemed to be a promising young man in a fatal collision when Laura Bush should have stopped is a terrible tragedy. Yes, I feel just as bad for him and his family as I do for Mary Jo Kopechne. I cannot imagine how horrible it must have been for his Father driving in the car behind him to watch his son get killed like that. I hope I never have to deal with something like that. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2009, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-i-pit-mary-jo-kopechne/507871/94 "2009-08-27T16:56:11Z")
> [@Muffin](#): > > You should go back and read what you posted. > > If you wish to continue your denials, you should post in that thread, not this one. How is that a denial? What you are saying that means and what it means are not the same thing. If we paid significantly less it’s likely Canada would have to pay more. That’s hardly subsidization. Subsidization, that word, it does not mean what you think it means. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2009, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-i-pit-mary-jo-kopechne/507871/95 "2009-08-27T16:57:19Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > FTR, I am very, very far from being on the right. > > However, Laura Welch (as she then was) was not a public figure at the time of the accident. She was the daughter of a well-to-do real estate magnate, but I doubt she was any more famous than you or I. Expecting an expression of “public regret” is ridiculous- although she certainly has expressed regret on the record. > > Moreover, she is not now and has never been a candidate for public office. It doesn’t matter if she clubbed Michael Vick’s rottweiler puppies for him; her criminal record has no bearing on her husband’s election, unless the voters choose to make it an issue. > > Now, seriously, shut up. You’re making our side look bad. Worse, you’re making us look stupid. You’d better top before I fall in love with you and believe me, I’d make a really fucking creepy stalker. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2009, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-i-pit-mary-jo-kopechne/507871/96 "2009-08-27T17:04:44Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > And I think we agree that, whether Kopechne could have been saved or not, it was a topic than Kennedy gave far less attention than it deserved. He was far too busy trying to save his own political ass. Kennedy himself conceded as much. > [@](#): > > And rightly so. No matter how you spin it, it came down to a crisis, and Kennedy panicked. Such a person does not belong with his finger anywhere near the nuclear trigger. Maybe. Of course, I’d say a person that has just suffered a concussion doesn’t below near the “trigger.” It’s possible that some of his actions post-crash were the result of a brain addled by impact, not substance abuse. But that truly is a “we’ll never know” proposition. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2009, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-i-pit-mary-jo-kopechne/507871/97 "2009-08-27T17:05:44Z")
> [@elbows](#): > > But it’s amusing to watch the Right’s outrage over one and complete equivocation of the other. Ahem. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2009, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-i-pit-mary-jo-kopechne/507871/98 "2009-08-27T17:15:09Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Maybe. Of course, I’d say a person that has just suffered a concussion doesn’t below near the “trigger.” It’s possible that some of his actions post-crash were the result of a brain addled by impact, not substance abuse. Does seem a little funny how much better he was at plans to rescue himself as an innocent third party. > [@](#): > > But that truly is a “we’ll never know” proposition. Quite true. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2009, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-i-pit-mary-jo-kopechne/507871/99 "2009-08-27T17:18:18Z")
> [@mswas](#): > > First of all that’s not what trolling means. From the [SDSAB Report: What is a Troll](http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/1764/what-is-a-troll): > [@](#): > > The main point about trolls is that they intentionally mislead others…Trolling aims to elicit an emotional reaction from those with a hair-trigger on the reply key. > [@](#): > > This is my final answer to you. Sorry, the correct answer was “Spanish Inquisition”. Here’s your $1,000 check - I bet you wish you had a friend you could have phoned, huh? ---
**Author:** ![Maeglin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8baadc/32.png) [@Maeglin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maeglin)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2009, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-i-pit-mary-jo-kopechne/507871/100 "2009-08-27T17:22:15Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Ahem. I do not think he was talking about you. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-i-pit-mary-jo-kopechne/507871.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-i-pit-mary-jo-kopechne/507871.md?page=6)