# In which I pit Mary Jo Kopechne **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 27, 2009, 3:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-i-pit-mary-jo-kopechne/507871 "2009-08-27T03:47:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2009, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-i-pit-mary-jo-kopechne/507871/121 "2009-08-27T19:11:15Z")
> [@elbows](#): > > Really? Laura Bush should get a pass because she wasn’t a public figure at the time? > WTF? > > Did you miss the part where she never even got a traffic ticket for missing a stop sign and taking a life? How is that anything but shameful? > > They both took lives by unsafely operating their vehicles into accidents. > > One is expected to continue paying for it after he’s dead. > The other, didn’t get so much as a ticket, much less stand before a judge. Uh, you’re missing the important part. It’s what he did _after_ the accident that poses the problem. ---
**Author:** ![emcee2k](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7bcc69/32.png) [@emcee2k](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/emcee2k)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2009, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-i-pit-mary-jo-kopechne/507871/122 "2009-08-27T19:12:39Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > She was never charged with a _crime_. She did get a traffic ticket. > > Anyway, nobody said she should “get a pass”. The point you don’t seem to get is that Ted Kennedy holds a public office, which makes him a valid target for criticism. Laura Bush does not- and never has- which means criticizing her is pointless and makes you look all of eight years old- “well, _she_ did it too!” What does that have to do with what I said? ---
**Author:** ![elbows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b3f665/32.png) [@elbows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elbows)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2009, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-i-pit-mary-jo-kopechne/507871/123 "2009-08-27T19:14:13Z")
My point is that they both made a similar mistake (auto accident), with similar outcomes (two lives lost). One paid for it all his life and continues to, after his death, it likely cost him the white house. The other, not so many consequences, sailed right into the white house. I don’t care that one was a public figure, there shouldn’t be that disparity in consequences for the taking a life. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2009, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-i-pit-mary-jo-kopechne/507871/124 "2009-08-27T19:16:42Z")
_sigh_ You do know that Laura Bush wasn’t President, right? ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2009, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-i-pit-mary-jo-kopechne/507871/125 "2009-08-27T19:19:11Z")
“Teddy was jist taking that Mary Jo lass to midnight Mass, when they came to a bridge built by one o’ them Eyetalian contractors.” ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2009, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-i-pit-mary-jo-kopechne/507871/126 "2009-08-27T19:21:03Z")
> [@elbows](#): > > My point is that they both made a similar mistake (auto accident), with similar outcomes (two lives lost). > > One paid for it all his life and continues to, after his death, it likely cost him the white house. > > The other, not so many consequences, sailed right into the white house. > > I don’t care that one was a public figure, there shouldn’t be that disparity in consequences for the taking a life. Let’s try this again: [QUOTE=magellan01] Uh, you’re missing the important part. It’s what he did _after_ the accident that poses the problem. [/QUOTE] ---
**Author:** ![emcee2k](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7bcc69/32.png) [@emcee2k](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/emcee2k)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2009, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-i-pit-mary-jo-kopechne/507871/127 "2009-08-27T19:25:07Z")
> [@elbows](#): > > My point is that they both made a similar mistake (auto accident), with similar outcomes (two lives lost). > > One paid for it all his life and continues to, after his death, it likely cost him the white house. > > The other, not so many consequences, sailed right into the white house. > > I don’t care that one was a public figure, there shouldn’t be that disparity in consequences for the taking a life. He got drunk, drove his car into a channel, left a woman there to drown, while he went home and took a nap. No trial, no jail time, he didn’t even lose his Senate seat, his punishment was “He didn’t get to be president”. Yeah, poor guy. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2009, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-i-pit-mary-jo-kopechne/507871/128 "2009-08-27T19:29:45Z")
There is no evidence that he was drunk. ---
**Author:** ![emcee2k](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7bcc69/32.png) [@emcee2k](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/emcee2k)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2009, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-i-pit-mary-jo-kopechne/507871/129 "2009-08-27T19:40:49Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > There is no evidence that he was drunk. Sure there is. Arguably, not enough that he could have been convicted, but definitely evidence. ---
**Author:** ![bup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6bbea6/32.png) [@bup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bup)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2009, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-i-pit-mary-jo-kopechne/507871/130 "2009-08-27T19:41:20Z")
At _some_ point in his life, he got drunk. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2009, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-i-pit-mary-jo-kopechne/507871/131 "2009-08-27T19:48:24Z")
> [@jtgain](#): > > Here is one thing that I never understood: Kennedy said that he passed several houses on his way back to the hotel, but didn’t stop because no lights were on. WTF?!? There is a girl dying at the bottom of a channel. I think that is a good excuse to interrupt someone’s beauty sleep. Not houses so much as cottages. No lights were on = possibly unoccupied. Once again, he’s damned either way. If he spent thirty seconds at each house he stopped at, banging on the door in an effort to wake someone up, then you’d complain he didn’t give them a chance to wake up. If he spent four minutes at each house he stopped at, banging on the door in an effort to wake someone up, then you’d complain how he was wasting time trying summer cottages when he knew, knew for certain, there was a phone only a short distance away. But let him pass by the cottages without trying, and then THAT becomes the indictment of his behavior. > [@emcee2k](#): > > Sure there is. Arguably, not enough that he could have been convicted, but definitely evidence. What is that evidence? ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2009, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-i-pit-mary-jo-kopechne/507871/132 "2009-08-27T19:51:21Z")
> [@emcee2k](#): > > Sure there is. Arguably, not enough that he could have been convicted, but definitely evidence. I’m afraid your say-so doesn’t qualify as evidence. It falls more into the category of ‘speculation’. ---
**Author:** ![bup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6bbea6/32.png) [@bup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bup)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2009, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-i-pit-mary-jo-kopechne/507871/133 "2009-08-27T19:57:39Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > > [@](#): > > > > Sure there is. Arguably, not enough that he could have been convicted, but definitely evidence. > > What is that evidence? I heard he drove off a bridge. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2009, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-i-pit-mary-jo-kopechne/507871/134 "2009-08-27T19:57:53Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > I’m afraid your say-so doesn’t qualify as evidence. It falls more into the category of ‘speculation’. He was at a party where there was alcohol being served. He admitted to drinking and he left at after 11pm. And then he drives his car off of a bridge and kills someone, and then leaves the scene of the accident. He also was known to have a problem with alcohol. Now, as the other poster said, he wouldn’t get convicted in a court of law with this circumstantial evidence, but it sure as hell is enough in most peoples minds. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2009, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-i-pit-mary-jo-kopechne/507871/135 "2009-08-27T20:00:24Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Not houses so much as cottages. No lights were on = possibly unoccupied. > > Once again, he’s damned either way. If he spent thirty seconds at each house he stopped at, banging on the door in an effort to wake someone up, then you’d complain he didn’t give them a chance to wake up. If he spent four minutes at each house he stopped at, banging on the door in an effort to wake someone up, then you’d complain how he was wasting time trying summer cottages when he knew, knew for certain, there was a phone only a short distance away. But let him pass by the cottages without trying, and then THAT becomes the indictment of his behavior. That might make sense if he used the phone at the hotel to call the cops. But he waited until the next morning. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2009, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-i-pit-mary-jo-kopechne/507871/136 "2009-08-27T20:00:26Z")
> [@jtgain](#): > > He was at a party where there was alcohol being served. He admitted to drinking and he left at after 11pm. And then he drives his car off of a bridge and kills someone, and then leaves the scene of the accident. He also was known to have a problem with alcohol. > > Now, as the other poster said, he wouldn’t get convicted in a court of law with this circumstantial evidence, but it sure as hell is enough in most peoples minds. None of that is evidence- not even circumstantial evidence. ---
**Author:** ![Xema](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/9de053/32.png) [@Xema](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Xema)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2009, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-i-pit-mary-jo-kopechne/507871/137 "2009-08-27T20:05:33Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > But let him pass by the cottages without trying, and then THAT becomes the indictment of his behavior. Well, that plus the fact that he didn’t alert the police until hours after the accident, and after he’d consulted with his advisors. The implication that he was at that point not looking to help her is strong. > [@](#): > > What is that evidence? One point would be Teddy’s long penchant for booze and broads - something that seems to be accepted by even his strong supporters. If he was at a party with alcohol and a bunch of women and not drinking, it would have been very seriously out of character. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2009, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-i-pit-mary-jo-kopechne/507871/138 "2009-08-27T20:06:17Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > None of that is evidence- not even circumstantial evidence. So if I was on trial for DUI and someone saw me drinking before I got into the car, that wouldn’t be valuable evidence for the prosecutor to use? ---
**Author:** ![Xema](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/9de053/32.png) [@Xema](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Xema)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2009, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-i-pit-mary-jo-kopechne/507871/139 "2009-08-27T20:06:33Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > None of that is evidence- not even circumstantial evidence. Why is it not circumstantial evidence? ---
**Author:** ![emcee2k](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7bcc69/32.png) [@emcee2k](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/emcee2k)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2009, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-i-pit-mary-jo-kopechne/507871/140 "2009-08-27T20:11:48Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > …What is that evidence? The fact that he drove his car into the water in the first place. His behavior after the accident. He didn’t report the incident, even once he had access to phone. He told the other men who knew, not to tell anyone else what had happened, and that _he_ would notify authorities. But he didn’t. He went back to his hotel and went to bed. Consistent with someone who didn’t want to immediately take a sobriety test. > [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > I’m afraid your say-so doesn’t qualify as evidence. It falls more into the category of ‘speculation’. This is pointless semantics. I’m not claiming that the evidence that he was drunk was simply “because I said so”. Anytime someone takes known facts and uses them to draw a conclusion about the unknowns of an incident it’s “speculation”. Every time a criminal charge is brought against someone it’s “speculation”. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-i-pit-mary-jo-kopechne/507871.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-i-pit-mary-jo-kopechne/507871.md?page=8)