# In which I pit Mary Jo Kopechne **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 27, 2009, 3:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-i-pit-mary-jo-kopechne/507871 "2009-08-27T03:47:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![emcee2k](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7bcc69/32.png) [@emcee2k](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/emcee2k)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2009, 3:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-i-pit-mary-jo-kopechne/507871/161 "2009-08-28T03:27:45Z")
> [@mswas](#): > > ..,With the exception of **CrazyCatLady** I think anyone else bringing up other examples were doing so for cynical reasons. The implication is, ‘this isn’t important’, rather than just expanding the compassion to other people… No, I think the implication is that you’re being disingenuous. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2009, 3:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-i-pit-mary-jo-kopechne/507871/162 "2009-08-28T03:50:38Z")
I remember the joke going round was that if it had been Bobby, he would have swum to shore and reported his car as having been stolen. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2009, 4:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-i-pit-mary-jo-kopechne/507871/163 "2009-08-28T04:21:02Z")
Thank ghod **mswas** is bringing up the tragedy of Mary Jo Kopechne, because no one else is. Besides Michael Savage, Glen Beck, Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity, Ann Coulter, Fox News and hundreds of others, that is. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2009, 4:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-i-pit-mary-jo-kopechne/507871/164 "2009-08-28T04:24:09Z")
Has any of the above-mentioned goons referenced the “Andropov Connection” yet? Or is that still too laughable even for them? ---
**Author:** ![aldiboronti](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9fc348/32.png) [@aldiboronti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aldiboronti)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2009, 6:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-i-pit-mary-jo-kopechne/507871/165 "2009-08-28T06:52:49Z")
I guess we must bow to the Kennedy consensus on this board. It’s quite clear to me now that Kopechne was a little tramp who forced the frightened Teddy into the car and then drunkenly drove it off the bridge as she was attempting to molest him. Callously leaving Kennedy to his fate she swam towards safety while he gasped for breath in the one small air pocket that remained in the car. Summoning up the legendary Kennedy strength and courage in adversity Teddy finally managed to extricate himself and made it to the shore. But, all unknown to him, sinister eyes were watching the events unfold that night. Right wing conspirators, who constantly followed Kennedy to gather dirt on him, saw a golden opportunity to destroy him. As the drunken and cursing Kopechne staggered from the water the conspirators seized her and quickly conveyed her back to the car in the depths of the river. Then one of them, posing as a fisherman, approached Teddy and assured him that he’d alerted the authorities and the best thing Kennedy could do was to go back to his hotel and get a good night’s sleep. A grateful Teddy stammered his thanks and did just that, believing Kopechne to be safe and that the police knew about the accident. Meanwhile the conspirators called Republican Party Headquarters to report on the night’s events. This was one Kennedy that would never become President. As the champagne sparkled into celebratory glasses in that dark and terrible building, Kennedy slept, his boyish face untroubled. It was not long to remain so. The morning revealed to him the full depths of the iniquity of his enemies. After shedding a silent tear for Mary Jo who, evil bitch though she had been, was yet undeserving of such an end, the future Lion of the Senate girded his loins for battle. By God, his foes may have won this round but they would not win the war! It’s a stirring tale. They should film it. Oliver Stone would be perfect. ---
**Author:** ![Zoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a4c791/32.png) [@Zoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoe)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2009, 9:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-i-pit-mary-jo-kopechne/507871/166 "2009-08-28T09:05:03Z")
A few days after the accident at Chappauquiddick, Ted Kennedy went public with a speech to the citizens of Massachusetts. It was broadcast the same day that he pled guilty to leaving the scene of an accident. [This speech is just about six minutes long.](http://www.myfoxboston.com/dpp/news/politics/senator_ted_kennedy/ted_kennedy_speeches_082709) I saw it broadcast live. For some of us it makes a differerence to have seen it live because it gives a perspective of what was going on at that time. Between the time of the accident on July 18 and Teddy’s speech a few days later, man landed on the moon. Our minds were distracted between joy and sorrow. Keep in mind also that it had been only a little over a year since Bobby Kennedy had been assasinated while he was running for President – and expected to win the nomination. We were still numb from that and from Martin Luther King, Jr. assasination. And there was still this big scar on our country from the assasination of President Kennedy. He was a very popular President. If some of you grieve for Mary Jo, can you imagine for a moment how some others here might feel about the last and probably, in the long run, most influential for the good of the people of the Kennedy brothers? When you were born, **mswas** , there was no one who had as yet served 50 or even 47 years. The current President of the United States can’t remember when Ted wasn’t in the Senate. I’m certainly not going to participate in any stone-throwing parties for Edward Kennedy even though it is very sad that such a nice young woman died needlessly. ---
**Author:** ![aldiboronti](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9fc348/32.png) [@aldiboronti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aldiboronti)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2009, 9:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-i-pit-mary-jo-kopechne/507871/167 "2009-08-28T09:28:02Z")
I was around 21 at the time of Chappaquiddick, I remember that conference and I remember the reams of press and media coverage. All about Kennedy. The effect on the Kennedys, the Kennedy Curse, the tragedy of the Kennedys, the sadness of Rose, the grief of Teddy, and so on and so forth. One began to wonder just who the fuck had died here. But then the Kennedys always were a vainglorious and self-centered family. ---
**Author:** ![El\_Kabong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/el_kabong/32/496_2.png) [@El\_Kabong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Kabong)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2009, 11:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-i-pit-mary-jo-kopechne/507871/168 "2009-08-28T11:16:43Z")
> [@aldiboronti](#): > > I guess we must bow to the Kennedy consensus on this board. Yes. Er, what “Kennedy consensus” would that be, exactly? That he was a deeply flawed man who nevertheless had a significant impact on the legislative environment of the past 40 years? That’s pretty much the closest thing to a consensus I can see. Certainly nothing anyone has said on this board bears any relation to the bizarre fantasy that makes up the rest of the quoted post. ---
**Author:** ![Xema](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/9de053/32.png) [@Xema](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Xema)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2009, 1:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-i-pit-mary-jo-kopechne/507871/169 "2009-08-28T13:13:02Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Thank ghod **mswas** is bringing up the tragedy of Mary Jo Kopechne, because no one else is. > > Besides Michael Savage, Glen Beck, Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity, Ann Coulter, Fox News and hundreds of others, that is. I note that the hundreds of others include essentiaily all the mainstream news outlets I’ve checked. ---
**Author:** ![aldiboronti](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9fc348/32.png) [@aldiboronti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aldiboronti)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2009, 1:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-i-pit-mary-jo-kopechne/507871/170 "2009-08-28T13:33:14Z")
> [@El\_Kabong](#): > > Yes. > > Er, what “Kennedy consensus” would that be, exactly? That he was a deeply flawed man who nevertheless had a significant impact on the legislative environment of the past 40 years? That’s pretty much the closest thing to a consensus I can see. > > Certainly nothing anyone has said on this board bears any relation to the bizarre fantasy that makes up the rest of the quoted post. Jesus Christ on a fucking crutch, it was _supposed_ to be a bizarre fantasy. Look at the top of the page there. See the title of the thread? And the consensus I referred to was that, though flawed, Kennedy was one of the ‘good guys’. Needless to say, I disagree and took that concept to absurd extremes. Perhaps when your humor transplant has been successful you can try again. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2009, 1:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-i-pit-mary-jo-kopechne/507871/171 "2009-08-28T13:39:22Z")
> [@Xema](#): > > I note that the hundreds of others include essentiaily all the mainstream news outlets I’ve checked. Which makes her pretty much the most remembered “forgotten” victim is history. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2009, 1:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-i-pit-mary-jo-kopechne/507871/172 "2009-08-28T13:48:34Z")
> [@aldiboronti](#): > > I was around 21 at the time of Chappaquiddick, I remember that conference and I remember the reams of press and media coverage. All about Kennedy. The effect on the Kennedys, the Kennedy Curse, the tragedy of the Kennedys, the sadness of Rose, the grief of Teddy, and so on and so forth. One began to wonder just who the fuck had died here. > > But then the Kennedys always were a vainglorious and self-centered family. It’s amazing that no one brought up Mary Jo’s name whenever Ted Kennedy was mentioned. No, wait-they did. Every damn time he was in the news, every time he voted on a bill, every time he gave a speech, every time he donated time and/or money to a cause he thought was worthy, conservatives dug up Mary Jo’s body and swung it around like baseball bat. Why don’t you Google “Kopechne” and see how often her name has been used by the right? ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2009, 1:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-i-pit-mary-jo-kopechne/507871/173 "2009-08-28T13:55:35Z")
> [@aldiboronti](#): > > I guess we must bow to the Kennedy consensus on this board. It’s quite clear to me now that Kopechne was a little tramp who forced the frightened Teddy into the car and then drunkenly drove it off the bridge as she was attempting to molest him. Fallacy of the excluded middle. No one is saying Kennedy acted perfectly, or that kopechne was at fault. But her death was an accident. In the wake of that accident, Kennedy acted poorly. That’s the most reasonable conclusion that can be drawn from this. Why is it that opinions on this issue seem to conform so strongly to party lines? I have no reason to support or whitewash Senator Kennedy; indeed, I am oppposed to the vast majority of his political efforts. But I’m capable of looking at facts and reaching conclusions independent of that. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2009, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-i-pit-mary-jo-kopechne/507871/174 "2009-08-28T14:19:35Z")
Indeed, you are, you have your moments. Which is why, sooner or later, you’re ours. Behold, the awesome corruptive power of reason and thought! ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2009, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-i-pit-mary-jo-kopechne/507871/175 "2009-08-28T14:21:46Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Indeed, you are, you have your moments. Which is why, sooner or later, you’re ours. Behold, the awesome corruptive power of reason and thought! Did you miss the part about “…oppposed to the vast majority of his political efforts…?” 😛 ---
**Author:** ![aldiboronti](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9fc348/32.png) [@aldiboronti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aldiboronti)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2009, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-i-pit-mary-jo-kopechne/507871/176 "2009-08-28T14:25:05Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > It’s amazing that no one brought up Mary Jo’s name whenever Ted Kennedy was mentioned. > > No, wait-they did. Every damn time he was in the news, every time he voted on a bill, every time he gave a speech, every time he donated time and/or money to a cause he thought was worthy, conservatives dug up Mary Jo’s body and swung it around like baseball bat. Why don’t you Google “Kopechne” and see how often her name has been used by the right? You misunderstand. I didn’t mean she wasn’t mentioned. She was, frequently. My point was that much of the media viewed it as a tragedy for the _Kennedys_. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2009, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-i-pit-mary-jo-kopechne/507871/177 "2009-08-28T14:25:25Z")
Never had that much use for him, or any of the Kennedys for that matter. JFK is wildly overestimated, LBJ did the heavy lifting on civil rights, JFK took the credit. Bobby didn’t come out against the war until it was an absolute lead pipe cinch. And Teddy was the Fredo of the Kennedy Mob. Liberals will compromise, if you decide to beat their Mamma to death with a hammer, they’ll compromise with you so that you only beat her into a coma. _Feh._ My enemies merely make me mad, my allies make me weep. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2009, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-i-pit-mary-jo-kopechne/507871/178 "2009-08-28T14:28:12Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Did you miss the part about “…oppposed to the vast majority of his political efforts…?” 😛 Did you miss the part about “sooner or later”? The process of becoming a progressive is almost never like getting knocked off your mule on the way to Damascus, its more like being nibbled to death by ducks. ---
**Author:** ![aldiboronti](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9fc348/32.png) [@aldiboronti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aldiboronti)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2009, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-i-pit-mary-jo-kopechne/507871/179 "2009-08-28T14:36:33Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Fallacy of the excluded middle. No one is saying Kennedy acted perfectly, or that kopechne was at fault. > > But her death was an accident. In the wake of that accident, Kennedy acted poorly. That’s the most reasonable conclusion that can be drawn from this. > > Why is it that opinions on this issue seem to conform so strongly to party lines? I suppose it’s natural that they should. Many on the right see this, and have always seen it, as a stick with which to beat a political opponent. I am not of that number. I think his politics are irrelevant. I would hold exactly the same opinion if this were an icon of the right. (And I think your comment would hold good then too: we would see condemnatory posts from the left and exculpatory ones from the right.) ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2009, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-i-pit-mary-jo-kopechne/507871/180 "2009-08-28T14:57:42Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Never had that much use for him, or any of the Kennedys for that matter. JFK is wildly overestimated, LBJ did the heavy lifting on civil rights, JFK took the credit. I think you could argue that JFK _got_ the credit. I don’t think you can say he _took_ it. After all, he was dead. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-i-pit-mary-jo-kopechne/507871.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-i-pit-mary-jo-kopechne/507871.md?page=10)