# In which I pit Zabali\_Clawbane and other bad parents **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 5, 2004, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-i-pit-zabali_clawbane-and-other-bad-parents/222855 "2004-01-05T18:33:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![culture](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/958977/32.png) [@culture](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/culture)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2004, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-i-pit-zabali_clawbane-and-other-bad-parents/222855/1 "2004-01-05T18:33:39Z")
In another thread, Zabali\_Clawbane said: > [@](#): > > In any case, Brutus, I would indeed let my son (if he were living) wear a dress, if he came to me wanting to. Boys want to experiment too, and who am I to limit a child’s self discovery and self expression? That’s not a parent’s place. A parent’s place is to teach their offspring how to survive, and be true to themselves, as well as “be honorable” to others, basically law abiding citizens who know themselves well, and accept themselves warts, “beauty marks” and all. A dress is not going to cause the male organ to shrivel up and fall off if it’s on a male frame, any more than trousers on a female frame will cause gonads to sprout between the female’s legs. Not a parents place to limit their children’s self-discovery and self-expression? Have you been smoking crack? Or have you been letting your kids smoke crack? After all, how else are they going to explore the wide world of crack-whoring unless they start smoking? This has got to be the most idiotic statement I have seen posted recently. Zabali\_Clawbane, I do not know you, and I agree that you must let your kids make mistakes and discover things for themselves, but your statement, which includes no limits on said activities, is just plain dangerous. Maybe you just forgot the statement of limitations, in which case I applogize in advance (But you should have included it in your post). However, from the gist of your post I do not think you would agree to any limits (Please, please correct me). These are the parents that I see having beer-bust for their children and letting them smoke pot. Do what you want after 18, but it is your job to socialize them and let them reach the point they can make good decisions, and equip them to make good decisions. Do you wonder why so many people have problems with kids acting up [at the movies](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=232852)? Oh, this is the pit, so #%^, (#& and ^\*$^. ---
**Author:** ![Priam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/77aa72/32.png) [@Priam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Priam)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2004, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-i-pit-zabali_clawbane-and-other-bad-parents/222855/2 "2004-01-05T18:39:20Z")
**culture** : Uhh… what the fuck? Did you actually read Zabali’s responses in that same thread? She said there were limitations on that self-expression based upon the health and safety of the child. Wearing a dress and smoking crack are two rather different things. Dresses are not, to my knowledge, addictive and dangerous substances. I know of no one who could OD and die of dresses and, trust me, if one could we’d know by now. So how’s about you post the entire context before calling Zabali a bad parent? ---
**Author:** ![carrot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9de0a6/32.png) [@carrot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carrot)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2004, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-i-pit-zabali_clawbane-and-other-bad-parents/222855/3 "2004-01-05T18:40:18Z")
Didn’t bother to read on, did you? > [@](#): > > Originally posted by Zabali\_Clawbane > \*\*I think a child can make value judgements for themselves, within reason. You have to “cultivate” it. One way to do that, IMO is by respecting the child’s right to express themselves, and guide them in how to do it in a healthy manner. Yeah, you are the parent, and can “veto” some things. Just use the “veto power” sparingly. Consider carefully whether or not it’s just a matter of conflict of aesthetic tastes, or if it’s just not practical for whatever reason, then take action. > > Example: “Yelling at the top of your lungs, throwing things, or hitting people are NOT acceptable ways to show you are angry! Go sit down until you are calm enough to talk to me about why you are so mad.” Or: “No, I know you love those shorts and that tank top, but it’s COLD out there, and you need nice warm clothes to wear for school. You can wear them when you come home from school if you want. Go get changed.” \*\* ---
**Author:** ![Priam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/77aa72/32.png) [@Priam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Priam)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2004, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-i-pit-zabali_clawbane-and-other-bad-parents/222855/4 "2004-01-05T18:41:24Z")
Should’ve inserted this into the above post. Apologies for double-posting. > [@](#): > > _Her response to Brutus_ > Respecting a person’s individuality, no matter what the age is an important thing to me. This does not mean I would let the child wear shorts in the winter, or a winter coat in the heat of summer. There are limits to self expression, versus practicality/health. > > I just don’t see wearing a dress to see what it’s like as something that would damage the child. Yeah, I’d likely ask the child if they were over say, age 3, to change out of it if we were going to the store or something, but just to play in, why not? ( could understand what kind of crap he’d get from ignorant people, even if he was innocent.) A kilt is definitely allowable, but those things are EXPENSIVE! > > I think a child can make value judgements for themselves, within reason. You have to “cultivate” it. One way to do that, IMO is by respecting the child’s right to express themselves, and guide them in how to do it in a healthy manner. Yeah, you are the parent, and can “veto” some things. Just use the “veto power” sparingly. Consider carefully whether or not it’s just a matter of conflict of aesthetic tastes, or if it’s just not practical for whatever reason, then take action. ---
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2004, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-i-pit-zabali_clawbane-and-other-bad-parents/222855/5 "2004-01-05T18:41:32Z")
Holy fuck. Are we now supposed to list everything that our posts aren’t meant to endorse? This post does not endorse: [ul][li]killing puppies[/li][li]Republicans[/li][li]having sex with minors[/li][li]smoking crack[/li][li]orange Tic-Tacs[/li][li]inferring vastly different subjects into any of Zabali\_Clawbane’s posts regarding wearing dresses[/ul][/li] Do you see where this is going? ---
**Author:** ![World\_Eater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2004, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-i-pit-zabali_clawbane-and-other-bad-parents/222855/6 "2004-01-05T18:42:19Z")
I must have missed something, I don’t think what he/she said was so bad ---
**Author:** ![culture](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/958977/32.png) [@culture](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/culture)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2004, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-i-pit-zabali_clawbane-and-other-bad-parents/222855/7 "2004-01-05T19:01:09Z")
OK, I have read the entire thing and see that Zabali\_Clawbane later effectively withdrew her previous call for total freedom of childhood self-expression and self-discovery. However, I do not think any poster or reader should be appalled that someone is taken at their word in a posting. She clearly stated that she believed it was not a parents place to limit their children’s self-expression and self-discovery. I do not see it is my job to track down every post someone has made to ensure they do not later change their mind. Also, if you bothered to read MY post, you will note the following statement: > [@](#): > > Maybe you just forgot the statement of limitations, in which case I applogize in advance (But you should have included it in your post). ---
**Author:** ![Palo\_Verde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/65b543/32.png) [@Palo\_Verde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Palo_Verde)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2004, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-i-pit-zabali_clawbane-and-other-bad-parents/222855/8 "2004-01-05T19:04:18Z")
linkity link??? ---
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2004, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-i-pit-zabali_clawbane-and-other-bad-parents/222855/9 "2004-01-05T19:19:25Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by culture \* > \*\*She clearly stated that she believed it was not a parents place to limit their children’s self-expression and self-discovery. I do not see it is my job to track down every post someone has made to ensure they do not later change their mind. What? She clearly stated _in a paragraph regarding a child wearing a dress_ to not limit a child’s self-expression. It doesn’t take a master’s degree to figure out she was talking about, wait for it, a child wearing a dress! Where the hell you got “smoking crack” out of that paragraph, only you and your shrink will know. > [@](#): > > Also, if you bothered to read MY post, you will note the following statement: \*\* What fucking “statement of limitations”?!? If I say that I like driving cars, people don’t get up in arms that I’ve expressed a desire to go on a driving rampage, running over everyone walking on the sidewalk. There’s no need to come up with a statement of limitations on what my driving enjoyment entails or excludes. In no way should Zabali\_Clawbane be expected to do the same. > [@](#): > > OK, I have read the entire thing and see that… Wait, you started up a Pit thread against a SDMB poster regarding one paragraph that person made in a thread you didn’t completely read? And that one paragraph has absolutely nothing to do with what you’re pissed about? Jackass. ---
**Author:** ![Who\_me\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/958977/32.png) [@Who\_me\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Who_me_1)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2004, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-i-pit-zabali_clawbane-and-other-bad-parents/222855/10 "2004-01-05T19:22:33Z")
The thread is [here](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=233192) and the OP (of this thread) needs to get a clue… ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2004, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-i-pit-zabali_clawbane-and-other-bad-parents/222855/11 "2004-01-05T19:25:29Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Munch \* > \*\*Holy fuck. > > Are we now supposed to list everything that our posts aren’t meant to endorse? > > This post does not endorse: > [ul][li]killing puppies[/li][li]Republicans[/li][li]having sex with minors[/li][li]smoking crack[/li][li]orange Tic-Tacs[/li][li]inferring vastly different subjects into any of Zabali\_Clawbane’s posts regarding wearing dresses[/ul][/li] > Do you see where this is going? \*\* You incredible pervert! Do you mean to tell me that you have nothing against sex with poultry? I apologize in advance if I misunderstand you, you disgusting trash. Daniel (whose post is against everything) ---
**Author:** ![Zebra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/c0e974/32.png) [@Zebra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zebra)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2004, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-i-pit-zabali_clawbane-and-other-bad-parents/222855/12 "2004-01-05T19:25:56Z")
And what is with the link to the ‘bad children in movie theatres’ thread? ---
**Author:** ![carrot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9de0a6/32.png) [@carrot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carrot)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2004, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-i-pit-zabali_clawbane-and-other-bad-parents/222855/13 "2004-01-05T19:28:48Z")
Even the part you posted limited the “total freedom” you claim **Z\_C** “called for”. > [@](#): > > A parent’s place is to teach their offspring how to survive, and be true to themselves, **as well as “be honorable” to others** , basically law abiding citizens who know themselves well, and accept themselves warts, “beauty marks” and all. Maybe, while you’re busy taking people at their words, you could figure out what their words actually are. See, I would kinda assume that “being honorable” to others would include not being a total asshole in a crowded movie theatre. Or, another example, calling someone a bad parent. ---
**Author:** ![culture](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/958977/32.png) [@culture](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/culture)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2004, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-i-pit-zabali_clawbane-and-other-bad-parents/222855/14 "2004-01-05T19:34:33Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Munch \*Wait, you started up a Pit thread against a SDMB poster regarding one paragraph that person made in a thread you didn’t completely read? And that one paragraph has absolutely nothing to do with what you’re pissed about? Jackass. \*\* Is english your primary language? If it is, you need serious help, because your reading comprehensions is abyssmal. If english a second language, I congratulate you becuase you write english much better than I speak or write any second lanugages, but your comprehension still needs improvement. Keep at it, you will get there pretty soon! ---
**Author:** ![carrot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9de0a6/32.png) [@carrot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carrot)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2004, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-i-pit-zabali_clawbane-and-other-bad-parents/222855/15 "2004-01-05T19:43:18Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by culture \* > \*\*Is english your primary language? If it is, you need serious help, because your reading comprehensions is abyssmal. If english a second language, I congratulate you becuase you write english much better than I speak or write any second lanugages, but your comprehension still needs improvement. Keep at it, you will get there pretty soon! \*\* First, the “e” in English should be capitalized. Next, “comprehensions” should be singular. Also, you’ve left out a word in your third sentence, probably “is”. I suggest revision prior to submission for grade. ---
**Author:** ![carrot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9de0a6/32.png) [@carrot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carrot)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2004, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-i-pit-zabali_clawbane-and-other-bad-parents/222855/16 "2004-01-05T19:51:11Z")
Oh, and “abysmal” takes only one “s”. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2004, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-i-pit-zabali_clawbane-and-other-bad-parents/222855/17 "2004-01-05T20:27:59Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by culture \* > \*\*Is english your primary language? If it is, you need serious help, because your reading comprehensions is abyssmal. If english a second language, I congratulate you becuase you write english much better than I speak or write any second lanugages, but your comprehension still needs improvement. Keep at it, you will get there pretty soon! \*\* Wow. I have seen people run afoul of Gaudere’s Law before, but I’ve never seen it whip anyone like a bad egg until today. Hint, **culture** : you should neither criticize anyone’s writing of English nor mock anyone’s reading comprehension, unless you’re trying to assume the mantle of the God of Irony. Daniel ---
**Author:** ![wring](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/838e76/32.png) [@wring](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wring)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2004, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-i-pit-zabali_clawbane-and-other-bad-parents/222855/18 "2004-01-05T20:29:45Z")
to the OP: admit you screwed up. Don’t quibble. Don’t try and backpeddle. Yelling at others for their lack of understanding the written word with your OP out there waving it’s arms yelling “lookit meeeeeeeeeee” is, well, ironic at least. ---
**Author:** ![Ilsa\_Lund](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/a6a055/32.png) [@Ilsa\_Lund](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ilsa_Lund)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2004, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-i-pit-zabali_clawbane-and-other-bad-parents/222855/19 "2004-01-05T20:34:02Z")
**culture** , you are _seriously[_ gonna get your ass whipped, beaten stiff, formed into teaspoon-sized balls, covered in shredded coconut, baked at 350 degrees for 5-10 minutes and turned into macaroons, dude. ---
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2004, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-i-pit-zabali_clawbane-and-other-bad-parents/222855/20 "2004-01-05T20:51:28Z")
> [@](#): > > Is english your primary language? If it is, you need serious help, because your reading comprehensions is abyssmal. If english a second language, I congratulate you becuase you write english much better than I speak or write any second lanugages, but your comprehension still needs improvement. Keep at it, you will get there pretty soon! I hear that rimjobs are incredible. I’ve never gotten one, probably never would. But if I had your ability to stick your head firmly up your own ass, I’d probably give myself one every day of my life. But could you please yank your dim-witted pinhead out of your craphole for a minute and address the points raised in this thread? Because currently you’ve only managed to come across as a complete jackass who can’t differentiate between masturbation and smashing your dick with a sledgehammer. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-i-pit-zabali_clawbane-and-other-bad-parents/222855.md?page=2)