# In which Miller oversteps his bounds... **URL:** \ **Category:** About This Message Board\ **Created:** [July 23, 2011, 7:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-miller-oversteps-his-bounds/590068 "2011-07-23T07:20:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2011, 7:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-miller-oversteps-his-bounds/590068/1 "2011-07-23T07:20:01Z")
So I enter [this thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=617399) to point out that **Susanann** did not quite say the stupid thing that **ladyfoxfyre** was trying to make it look like she said. What **Susanann** said was that one of the solutions to government debt would be to reduce government spending. This is a logical, rational statement, and something that is being said all over the country by a great many people, including some fairly big wigs in Congress. However **ladyfoxfyre** presents it as though **Susanann** had said the solution was to stop all government spending, which of course is idiotic on the face of it serves to further **ladyfoxfyre’s** OP, which is that **Susanann** is an idiot. My response, which would have been my only post had no one else said anything, was: > [@](#): > > I feel compelled to point out that **Susanann** did not say “Stop spending”, she said “Reduce spending”. This little bon mot brought an insulting response from **Bosstone** , which thereby led to a certain amount of back and forth between **Bosstone** and me. In each case my posts were in response to his/hers. Then **gonzomax** comes in spouting his usual “People who don’t want to pay taxes are selfish” philosophy, which I then set about contesting. Then **ladyfoxfyre** posts her response to my objection to the inaccurate way she characterized **Susanann’s** post, and in so doing insulted me in no uncertain terms and accused me of hijacking the thread and turning it into “The STARVING ARTIST SHOW”. At this point there were 86 posts to the thread, and my contribution was all of 6 posts and concerned a variety of subjects - all raised by other posters. Then **Guinastasia** chimes in that I’m hijacking the thread and suggests that I start a thread about the deficit - a subject that only 2 or 3 of my 6 posts talked about. I replied that as member in good standing of a public message board I was entitled to challenge remarks that I regarded as inaccurate or untrue and that if other posters were allowed to make off-topic comments in a thread, then I should be able to rebut them. Still, in response to a polite request from **PlainJain** , I agreed to back out of the thread. Which brings me now to the reason for this thread. For the offense of correcting **ladyfoxfyre’s** inaccurate recounting of **Susanann’s** post, and for responding to posts off-topic posts by **Bosstone** and **gonzomax** - and in the Pit, no less, where the rules are much more slack than in other forums and where wide-ranging disagreement has always defined the forum - I get the following highhanded, condescending warning from **Miller** : > [@](#): > > [Moderating] > Starving Artist, shut up. > [/Moderating] I submit that not only was **Miller’s** behavior in addressing me this way highly unprofessional and unmoderatorly, but that at its base is the animus he has long held for me and made scant secret of. Thus it’s my belief that my behavior in the linked thread fell far short of what is usually regarded as hijacking in that forum - especially since every single post was in response to something another poster (who had not and still have not gotten a warning for making off-topic posts) had said - and that the warning I received is not based upon normal standards of behavior in the Pit, but instead is the result of being reported by petulant posters whose little hatefest had been interrupted by the facts, and by a moderator who has long had it in for me. Thus I ask that the warning I received by stricken from whatever records are kept in regard to poster behavior, and that **Miller** be instructed not to allow his personal animus to guide his moderating decisions. I think it would also serve the board in general if he were advised to deliver his moderating decisions in a more professional way, and perhaps with an explanation for why he is taking the action he is. The moderator’s role on this board is to keep posters in line and enforce the board’s rules. It is NOT to boss them around and behave like an exasperated parent, especially when there has been no real infraction, as was the case in that thread. I have never been one to agitate against the moderators, nor against board rules, and I’ve only very rarely (maybe twice in my seven or eight years here) reported other posters as I figure the moderators have plenty on their plate to begin with and I’ve been reluctant to add to their burden. In short, apart from arguing vigorously with people over political matters, I’ve always tried to be a model poster and not make waves. So I’m not given to raise this kind of issue lightly, and I would not be doing so now had I not thought that **Miller’s** behavior was not only highhanded and unprofessional but based almost solely upon his personal dislike for me. Thanks to TPTB for your consideration. ---
**Author:** ![zoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zoid/32/336_2.png) [@zoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zoid)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2011, 7:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-miller-oversteps-his-bounds/590068/2 "2011-07-23T07:25:02Z")
You hijacked the living shit out of that thread. Start a new one if you want to discuss a different topic. As was pointed out many times - it’s not always about you. ---
**Author:** ![Sleeps\_With\_Butterflies](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@Sleeps\_With\_Butterflies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sleeps_With_Butterflies)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2011, 7:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-miller-oversteps-his-bounds/590068/3 "2011-07-23T07:28:25Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > Thus I ask that the warning I received by stricken from whatever records are kept in regard to poster behavior It sure doesn’t look like a warning to me. He said he was moderating and told you to shut up. No mention of a warning at all. FWIW (not much), I have always found **Miller** to be a pretty fair mod and all around good guy. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2011, 7:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-miller-oversteps-his-bounds/590068/4 "2011-07-23T07:40:51Z")
I found him to be a good guy too, for a long time. But then he decided to start taking personally critiques I’ve posted about liberals in general, and which even at their worst are outnumbered on this board by around 1,000 to one in generalized criticisms and insults aimed at conservatives. And it appeared to me that I was being warned to stop the alleged hijack and forbidden to post further to the thread. To me this is a warning, and I would be subject to disciplinary action for ignoring it. I will concede that in light of your post it may not have been a warning that would go “on my record”, and if not then I rescind that part of my post. I imagine it will be up to **Miller** or one of the board’s other moderators/administrators to let me know whether I’ve been offically warned in the sense that my posting priviliges may be affected at some point in the future. Still, I think that **Miller’s** warning/instruction was highly unprofessional and not in keeping with the way that moderators on this board have typically enforced the board’s rules. It would have been one thing if he had said something along the line of “ **SA** , you’re out of bounds and whether you agree or not, your behavior contstitutes a hijack and I’m advising you to dial it back.” Simply yelling at posters to “shut up” is not my idea of effective or professional board moderation, and it’s certainly not typical of the way the board has been moderated since I joined in 2003. ---
**Author:** ![Crazyhorse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crazyhorse/32/31_2.png) [@Crazyhorse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crazyhorse)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2011, 7:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-miller-oversteps-his-bounds/590068/5 "2011-07-23T07:55:23Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > It would have been one thing if he had said something along the line of “ **SA** , you’re out of bounds and whether you agree or not, your behavior contstitutes a hijack and I’m advising you to dial it back.” You just described, pretty much word-for-word, what I was about to post as my opinion on what the mod note meant. You seem to have gotten the message yourself. What remains to consider here? ---
**Author:** ![rogerbox](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/76d3ee/32.png) [@rogerbox](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rogerbox)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2011, 8:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-miller-oversteps-his-bounds/590068/6 "2011-07-23T08:56:16Z")
It always amazes me how seriously adults can take this message board. ---
**Author:** ![zoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zoid/32/336_2.png) [@zoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zoid)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2011, 9:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-miller-oversteps-his-bounds/590068/7 "2011-07-23T09:44:07Z")
> [@rogerbox](#): > > It always amazes me how seriously adults can take this message board. It always amazes me how adults who claim that that message boards are too serious keep posting their ideas on message boards. ---
**Author:** ![Zoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a4c791/32.png) [@Zoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoe)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2011, 9:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-miller-oversteps-his-bounds/590068/8 "2011-07-23T09:44:39Z")
> [@](#): > > **Crazyhorse** : You seem to have gotten the message yourself. What remains to consider here? What remains to be considered is whether or not it would trouble **Miller** to keep a civil tongue in his head when cautioning Dopers. ---
**Author:** ![zoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zoid/32/336_2.png) [@zoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zoid)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2011, 10:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-miller-oversteps-his-bounds/590068/9 "2011-07-23T10:37:50Z")
> [@Zoe](#): > > What remains to be considered is whether or not it would trouble **Miller** to keep a civil tongue in his head when cautioning Dopers. try ---
**Author:** ![zoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zoid/32/336_2.png) [@zoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zoid)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2011, 10:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-miller-oversteps-his-bounds/590068/10 "2011-07-23T10:38:56Z")
deleting post - Wrong thread ---
**Author:** ![Crazyhorse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crazyhorse/32/31_2.png) [@Crazyhorse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crazyhorse)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2011, 10:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-miller-oversteps-his-bounds/590068/11 "2011-07-23T10:45:13Z")
> [@Zoe](#): > > What remains to be considered is whether or not it would trouble **Miller** to keep a civil tongue in his head when cautioning Dopers. You have every right to continue to consider it if you want to of course. It wasn’t really uncivil when you follow the flow and context of the thread. The majority of the OP here is about wanting this warning stricken from the record but no warning was issued. Second it was that they believe this ‘warning’ was due purely to a ‘long-held animus’ toward them by **Miller**. But it’s clear they were fully aware that their behavior in the thread was disruptive even before they got a mod note. (based on their own description here of how they think their mod note could have been better-worded). Finally, there were a couple of short mentions about the tone of the mod note itself. My honest opinion is that if \*\*Starving Artist \*\*had realized that it wasn’t an official warning he wouldn’t have opened this thread purely on the wording of the mod note. ---
**Author:** ![Turek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/turek/32/18782_2.png) [@Turek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Turek)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2011, 11:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-miller-oversteps-his-bounds/590068/12 "2011-07-23T11:25:16Z")
> [@The very overdue pitting of Susanann](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-very-overdue-pitting-of-susanann/590032/107): > > [Moderating] > **Starving Artist** , shut up. > [/Moderating] Thank you. ---
**Author:** ![wmfellows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c2a13f/32.png) [@wmfellows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wmfellows)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2011, 12:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-miller-oversteps-his-bounds/590068/13 "2011-07-23T12:43:39Z")
Miller was absolutely bloody right. Your tedious boring hackery are an embarrassment to the non-Left and even more unwelcome in that thread. ---
**Author:** ![Gfactor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9de053/32.png) [@Gfactor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gfactor)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2011, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-miller-oversteps-his-bounds/590068/14 "2011-07-23T14:13:55Z")
1. **Miller** didn’t issue you a warning. If you got a warning you’d know it. 2. He made that statement in a forum where civility is not required, in a thread where others were within the rules to call each other “fucking insane old coot,” and other choice epithets, so your sensitivity seems misplaced. 3. Even in forums other than the Pit that note is probably ok. As Ed has noted: > [@](#): > > SDMB staff isn’t allowed to insult or abuse people but otherwise they’re given fairly wide latitude in dealing with posters. I’ve never told staff they’re not permitted to be sarcastic or stern and wouldn’t dream of doing so. I do occasionally point out that when you’re dealing with somebody who gets exercised over minor matters it’s best as a tactical matter not to give them an excuse to get worked up. Clearly that would have been the smarter course in the present case. That said, if you come in with a lot of attitude, don’t be surprised if you get some attitude back. [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=12497133&postcount=126](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=12497133&postcount=126) ---
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2011, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-miller-oversteps-his-bounds/590068/15 "2011-07-23T14:20:21Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > I’ve always tried to be a model poster and not make waves. Don’t forget to tip the waitstaff folks, he’ll be here all week! ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2011, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-miller-oversteps-his-bounds/590068/16 "2011-07-23T15:27:38Z")
I just read that thread. It demonstrates the problem with having a board that is so heavily weighted to one side. A poster who is identified as one of the more vocal minority simply corrects a point made by another poster and he gets jumped on. Then the meme flowers that “you’re always doing this”. The poster in that thread that made it more about **SA** was **Bosstone**. But, given the way things are stacked, **SA** is the problem. Yeah, right. As far as **Miller**. I rarely have a problem with his moderation. His moderation in this instance seems strikingly unMiller-like to me. It seems uncharacteristically—and unnecessarily harsh, especially given **SA’s** post fifteen minutes earlier saying that he was going to back out of the discussion. Also, I could see **Miller** maybe making that statement as a poster, but it seems particularly odd with his mod hat on. I chalk it up to a mistake. ---
**Author:** ![Garfield226](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Garfield226](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Garfield226)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2011, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-miller-oversteps-his-bounds/590068/17 "2011-07-23T15:44:29Z")
> [@Gfactor](#): > > 1. He made that statement in a forum where civility is not required, in a thread where others were within the rules to call each other “fucking insane old coot,” and other choice epithets, so your sensitivity seems misplaced. Given that **SA** couldn’t have responded to **Miller** in kind, given that he was acting as a moderator, it seems pretty disingenuous to say “You were in the pit, people act that way there.” I don’t need to be concerned if a drunk in a bar calls me a jackass, because I can call him a jackass right back. If a drunk cop in a bar calls me a jackass and then I get arrested or knocked in the skull with a nightstick for calling him a jackass right back, well, then we have a problem. ---
**Author:** ![MOIDALIZE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e274bd/32.png) [@MOIDALIZE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MOIDALIZE)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2011, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-miller-oversteps-his-bounds/590068/18 "2011-07-23T16:06:02Z")
The mods should be able to give warnings for excessive bellyaching. ---
**Author:** ![wmfellows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c2a13f/32.png) [@wmfellows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wmfellows)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2011, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-miller-oversteps-his-bounds/590068/19 "2011-07-23T16:06:06Z")
The problem was SA just felt he had to pursue an ideological and stupid hijack. Fully merited and no bloody reason for party political complaining. ---
**Author:** ![PlainJain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/5daacb/32.png) [@PlainJain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PlainJain)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2011, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-miller-oversteps-his-bounds/590068/20 "2011-07-23T16:12:20Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > Still, I think that **Miller’s** warning/instruction was highly unprofessional and not in keeping with the way that moderators on this board have typically enforced the board’s rules. “Unprofessional”? He is an unpaid, volunteer moderator… on a message board… on the internet. And a damn good one. You were rude and out of line in that thread. Thank you, **Miller**. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-miller-oversteps-his-bounds/590068.md?page=2)