# In which Miller oversteps his bounds... **URL:** \ **Category:** About This Message Board\ **Created:** [July 23, 2011, 7:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-miller-oversteps-his-bounds/590068 "2011-07-23T07:20:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![PlainJain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/5daacb/32.png) [@PlainJain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PlainJain)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2011, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-miller-oversteps-his-bounds/590068/21 "2011-07-23T16:14:14Z")
> [@Garfield226](#): > > I don’t need to be concerned if a drunk in a bar calls me a jackass, because I can call him a jackass right back. If a drunk cop in a bar calls me a jackass and then I get arrested or knocked in the skull with a nightstick for calling him a jackass right back, well, then we have a problem. Moral of the story? Don’t act like a jackass. Simple. ---
**Author:** ![Crazyhorse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crazyhorse/32/31_2.png) [@Crazyhorse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crazyhorse)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2011, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-miller-oversteps-his-bounds/590068/22 "2011-07-23T16:31:06Z")
> [@Gfactor](#): > > 1. He made that statement in a forum where civility is not required, in a thread where others were within the rules to call each other “fucking insane old coot,” and other choice epithets, so your sensitivity seems misplaced. > [@Garfield226](#): > > Given that **SA** couldn’t have responded to **Miller** in kind, given that he was acting as a moderator, it seems pretty disingenuous to say “You were in the pit, people act that way there.” Ah I think I see the misunderstanding here. After point number 2 that you quoted above, there was a point number 3 that you might have mistaken for “yada yada yada”. But what it actually said was: > [@Gfactor](#): > > 1. Even in forums other than the Pit that note is probably ok. As Ed has noted: > > [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=12497133&postcount=126](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=12497133&postcount=126) ---
**Author:** ![Garfield226](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Garfield226](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Garfield226)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2011, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-miller-oversteps-his-bounds/590068/23 "2011-07-23T16:32:39Z")
> [@Crazyhorse](#): > > Ah I think I see the misunderstanding here. After point number 2 that you quoted above, there was a point number 3 that you might have mistaken for “yada yada yada”. But what it actually said was: What makes you think I didn’t see it? I was addressing point 2. You want to recount all the other posts in the thread too, just in case I missed them? ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2011, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-miller-oversteps-his-bounds/590068/24 "2011-07-23T16:35:30Z")
> [@Garfield226](#): > > Given that **SA** couldn’t have responded to **Miller** in kind, given that he was acting as a moderator, it seems pretty disingenuous to say “You were in the pit, people act that way there.” > > I don’t need to be concerned if a drunk in a bar calls me a jackass, because I can call him a jackass right back. If a drunk cop in a bar calls me a jackass and then I get arrested or knocked in the skull with a nightstick for calling him a jackass right back, well, then we have a problem. It’s really too bad that SA has no recourse. Imagine a perfect world in which he had the right to start an **entire thread** to do nothing but tell the world what a model citizen he is and how the mods are jackbooted thugs. That would undercut your entire argument. Wouldn’t it? ---
**Author:** ![Crazyhorse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crazyhorse/32/31_2.png) [@Crazyhorse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crazyhorse)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2011, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-miller-oversteps-his-bounds/590068/25 "2011-07-23T16:43:23Z")
> [@Garfield226](#): > > What makes you think I didn’t see it? I was addressing point 2. Well, I was giving you the benefit of the doubt that you wouldn’t be wasting everyone’s time with a point that you already knew was completely moot, and had already been addressed just one line later in the very post to which you were replying. I see that was a generous assumption. ---
**Author:** ![Garfield226](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Garfield226](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Garfield226)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2011, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-miller-oversteps-his-bounds/590068/26 "2011-07-23T16:47:27Z")
> [@Crazyhorse](#): > > Well, I was giving you the benefit of the doubt that you wouldn’t be wasting everyone’s time with a point that you already knew was completely moot, and had already been addressed just one line later in the very post to which you were replying. I see that was a generous assumption. Completely moot enough that **Gfactor** took the time to make it. That’s some amazing moot right there. ---
**Author:** ![Crazyhorse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crazyhorse/32/31_2.png) [@Crazyhorse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crazyhorse)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2011, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-miller-oversteps-his-bounds/590068/27 "2011-07-23T16:56:23Z")
> [@Garfield226](#): > > Completely moot enough that **Gfactor** took the time to make it. That’s some amazing moot right there. Your post was moot because \*\*Gfactor \*\*already answered it, preemptively making it a moot point. Clear? Probably not. I’ll let you sort it out with him should he choose to devote any more time to answering it again. ---
**Author:** ![Garfield226](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Garfield226](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Garfield226)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2011, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-miller-oversteps-his-bounds/590068/28 "2011-07-23T16:58:42Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > It’s really too bad that SA has no recourse. Imagine a perfect world in which he had the right to start an **entire thread** to do nothing but tell the world what a model citizen he is and how the mods are jackbooted thugs. That would undercut your entire argument. > > Wouldn’t it? For what it’s worth, although I wish it was generally the policy that mods were to be more professional when acting as mods, I don’t think **Miller** broke any rules or overstepped any bounds in that thread. I was specifically addressing the one assertion by **Gfactor** that because it’s ok for posters to treat each other like shit in the pit then we shouldn’t be surprised when mods act that way too. I have no interest in defending **SA**. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2011, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-miller-oversteps-his-bounds/590068/29 "2011-07-23T17:01:34Z")
I was pretty surprised to see that note. Is there some context where it’s supposed to be obvious what the issue was? That sort of “hijack” (if it even was) is extremely commonplace on this MB. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2011, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-miller-oversteps-his-bounds/590068/30 "2011-07-23T17:25:25Z")
I agree - **Miller** , if you are going to moderate it would be useful to give some indication of why you felt it necessary to intervene. I don’t think it was even a hijack, except in the sense that anything other than participation in the pile-on was a hijack. It appears to me that **Miller** simply did not want anyone to come to **Susanann** ’s defense. And **Starving Artist** ’s point is valid - “I’m glad you posted so we can tell you not to post” is pretty stupid. And **ladyfoxfyre** did misstate **Susanann** ’s response. Miller - either give some indication as to why you felt it necessary, as a moderator, to order a poster not to participate in a Pit thread, or withdraw the note and make it clear that **SA** or anyone else may participate in all the forums of the Straight Dope. And if it is just going to be “coming to the defense of an unpopular poster is a hijack”, then make that clear. Or else shut up. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Zoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a4c791/32.png) [@Zoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoe)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2011, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-miller-oversteps-his-bounds/590068/31 "2011-07-23T17:44:38Z")
> [@](#): > > **Garfield** : I was specifically addressing the one assertion by Gfactor that because it’s ok for posters to treat each other like shit in the pit then we shouldn’t be surprised when mods act that way too. I have no interest in defending SA. But the answer to the central question of this thread is answered here: > [@](#): > > **Ed** : **SDMB staff isn’t allowed to insult or abuse people** but otherwise they’re given fairly wide latitude in dealing with posters. If a student in my classroom had told me to “shut up,” that would certainly have been considered abusive and insulting. I certainly didn’t tell my students that. If **SA** had been in need of a warning, then a complete sentence from **Miller** telling him that he needed to shut up would be about as close to the line as a mod could come. Even that is unnecessary. Of couse, if any of you, including **Miller** , think that “shut up” is not abusive or insulting, then I assume that it is okay for me to tell you to “shut up” and you won’t think that I have intended insult. ---
**Author:** ![Ostrya](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/35a633/32.png) [@Ostrya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ostrya)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2011, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-miller-oversteps-his-bounds/590068/32 "2011-07-23T17:44:48Z")
I agree with Shodan. Ladyfoxfyre was wrong with her statement, Starving Artist made that point, was then piled on by other posters for his political views which then begged him to defend. He did so and was told to “Shut Up” by a mod - with his hat on - and not as a poster. Which of course disallows any response. Shameful. It looks like another leftwing, clique group bunch of bs to me. ---
**Author:** ![Zoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a4c791/32.png) [@Zoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoe)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2011, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-miller-oversteps-his-bounds/590068/33 "2011-07-23T17:50:09Z")
> [@](#): > > **the lone cashew** : It looks like another leftwing, clique group bunch of bs to me. I don’t know you well enough to know if you are being sarcastic. **SA** is aware that I am about as left wing as anyone in here. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2011, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-miller-oversteps-his-bounds/590068/34 "2011-07-23T18:33:26Z")
The thread is a pitting of that chick for a half-dozen issues, including the deficit quote (the silliness of which was incorrectly explained by the OP). It’s not a hijack to challenge part of the basis for a pitting, of course. But it is poor message board etiquette to reduce the whole OP to that point, and worse, use it as a springboard for launching (or continuing) tangential flame wars against other posters: > [@Starving Artist](#): > > C’mon now, 'fess up. You are perfectly fine with people lying/unthinkingly exaggerating what someone else has said as long as the distortion creates a bias you favor, aren’t you? > [@Starving Artist](#): > > Tell ya what, gonzo. How’s about I somehow find out where you live and then go find the nearest homeless guy and bring him to your house. And then lets allow him come in and look over your belongings and your income records and decide for himself what he should be entitled to take for himself because you have more than he does. I’d bet we’d find out you’re just as “selfish” as anyone else. Maybe those other posters deserved some snide moderating too, but the hub of those spokes was **SA** , leading to a fairly simple solution. It’s not much of a defense to say you were just defending yourself when your method of defense is deliberately inflammatory and likely to lead to a complete derailing of the thread. ---
**Author:** ![PlainJain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/5daacb/32.png) [@PlainJain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PlainJain)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2011, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-miller-oversteps-his-bounds/590068/35 "2011-07-23T18:44:08Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > I agree - **Miller** , if you are going to moderate it would be useful to give some indication of why you felt it necessary to intervene. Oh, please. :rolleyes: Chumming in ATMB? For shame. But it doesn’t surprise me. Best wishes, Jain ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2011, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-miller-oversteps-his-bounds/590068/36 "2011-07-23T18:49:36Z")
He saved SA a warning . He was merely pointing out that if SA kept going off topic to spout his canned ,right wing, off topic propaganda, he would get a warning. Perhaps he could have been more polite. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2011, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-miller-oversteps-his-bounds/590068/37 "2011-07-23T18:57:07Z")
> [@PlainJain](#): > > Oh, please. :rolleyes: > > Chumming in ATMB? For shame. But it doesn’t surprise me. > > Best wishes, > Jain I have no idea what you are saying here. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![wmfellows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c2a13f/32.png) [@wmfellows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wmfellows)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2011, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-miller-oversteps-his-bounds/590068/38 "2011-07-23T19:29:34Z")
> [@Zoe](#): > > Of couse, if any of you, including **Miller** , think that “shut up” is not abusive or insulting, then I assume that it is okay for me to tell you to “shut up” and you won’t think that I have intended insult. shut up is not an insult. Shut up you stupid git is an insult. Shut up is an order. I should think as a school teacher you might have a mastery of this distinction. Of course shut up is not gentle nor polite. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2011, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-miller-oversteps-his-bounds/590068/39 "2011-07-23T19:43:31Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > I agree - **Miller** , if you are going to moderate it would be useful to give some indication of why you felt it necessary to intervene. That’s a fair point. In the future, I’ll endeavor to make my highhanded and condescending moderation more specific. Luckily, in this case, **Starving Artist** correctly divined my intent in his second post to this thread, so that’s one crisis averted. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2011, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-miller-oversteps-his-bounds/590068/40 "2011-07-23T19:50:01Z")
If you mean that it was a hijack, that requires a bit of explanation. In what sense was it a hijack? Regards, Shodan [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-miller-oversteps-his-bounds/590068.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-miller-oversteps-his-bounds/590068.md?page=3)