# In which Miller oversteps his bounds... **URL:** \ **Category:** About This Message Board\ **Created:** [July 23, 2011, 7:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-miller-oversteps-his-bounds/590068 "2011-07-23T07:20:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2011, 3:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-miller-oversteps-his-bounds/590068/121 "2011-07-25T03:46:37Z")
> [@Stink Fish Pot](#): > > You seem to have an issue with SA’s politics, and that’s fine. Hmmm…nope, not it at all. ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2011, 4:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-miller-oversteps-his-bounds/590068/122 "2011-07-25T04:39:18Z")
I see 1 part ill-considered modding (which has been wholly acknowledged) to 10 parts hysterical over-reaction to the same (once it was established that no warning was issued). Plus a lot of whining. I’m a little disappointed in SA. Back in the Pit, I thought he dextrously re-directed his POV to a more appropriate thread. I had hoped he was going to be a mensch. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2011, 5:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-miller-oversteps-his-bounds/590068/123 "2011-07-25T05:24:35Z")
Sorry to disappoint, **M for M** , but what you see as a minor instance of ill-considered mod behavior is from my point of view nothing but flat-out bullying by a moderator who has long had it in for me, and who has openly stated his dislike for me on a number of previous occasions. And none of us likes to be bullied. **Miller** is free to make whatever determination he wants to make as to whether I’m hijacking a thread or taking over a thread or whatever. His position as a moderator gives him that right. But he doesn’t have the right to tell me to shut up, and I’m not going to sit still for it if he does even if that strikes some people as an overreaction. ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2011, 5:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-miller-oversteps-his-bounds/590068/124 "2011-07-25T05:40:21Z")
But\*\* Miller\*\* has backed off the remark: he said that he was too brief and essentially endorsed your construction in post 4. He didn’t apologize for his gruffness, but that in my view is not where the problem laid. I’ll add 2 other observations, but please take them with a grain of salt: I’m not good with online advice. > [@](#): > > Diogenes the Cynic gets criticized for posting one-line declarative statements as though they are fact, and now I’m being criticized for explaining myself. 1. It’s partly a matter of finding that golden mean, right? Partly, at least. 2. **Bricker** often finds himself in quandaries analogous to the one you had in the Susanann pitting. He’s gotten better at his game. He’s succinct without being preposterous and sticks close to his point. ---
**Author:** ![Crazyhorse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crazyhorse/32/31_2.png) [@Crazyhorse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crazyhorse)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2011, 5:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-miller-oversteps-his-bounds/590068/125 "2011-07-25T05:46:43Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > His position as a moderator gives him that right. But he doesn’t have the right to tell me to shut up, and I’m not going to sit still for it if he does even if that strikes some people as an overreaction. It does. His position as moderator does give him the right to tell you to shut up. See the quote in post #14 of this thread. - “I’ve never told staff they’re not permitted to be sarcastic or stern and wouldn’t dream of doing so.” The second half of that quote seems equally pertinent as well: “I do occasionally point out that when you’re dealing with somebody who gets exercised over minor matters it’s best as a tactical matter not to give them an excuse to get worked up. Clearly that would have been the smarter course in the present case.” ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2011, 6:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-miller-oversteps-his-bounds/590068/126 "2011-07-25T06:18:27Z")
Why is the first half not pertinent? The part that says, “\*SDMB staff isn’t allowed to insult or abuse people…”? \* Being told to “Shut up” is abusive and insulting, no matter who says it. I doubt very much that **Miller** would ever tell the author of those words to shut up, and for that very reason. It is simply disingenuous to take the position that telling someone to shut up is not abusive or insulting when virtually everyone under the sun knows it is. ---
**Author:** ![Crazyhorse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crazyhorse/32/31_2.png) [@Crazyhorse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crazyhorse)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2011, 6:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-miller-oversteps-his-bounds/590068/127 "2011-07-25T06:48:59Z")
That’s where it having been a Pit thread comes into play. You were already being insulted by other posters who were asking you to stop the hijack too. The OP finally posted again and said the pitting wasn’t about you, and would you please “[far worse than shut up]”. By the time a mod stepped in to say “Shut up” all the reasons why were self-explanatory. Had it been a warning I would agree more information was required directly from the mod. But it was a friendly mod note, not a warning, and it was clear you knew why, they knew why, and everyone reading the thread knew why. It was just a formality that you were apparently insisting upon for a mod to actually make you before you stopped the hijack. So \*\*Miller \*\*obliged, with little verbal ornamentation. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2011, 8:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-miller-oversteps-his-bounds/590068/128 "2011-07-25T08:56:47Z")
No, I never thought I was hijacking that thread, and I still don’t. Posters don’t get to decide for themselves what constitutes a hijack, so the fact they were accusing me of it in no way meant to me that I should take it seriously. Mostly I viewed it as sour grapes because discussing the issues they had brought up was interfering with their conservative-poster bashing. There were a ton of dynamics at work in that thread which you are unaware of, between me and several of the thread’s posters and between me and **Miller**. To say that there was considerable longstanding animus all the way around would be an understatement. So no, I wasn’t waiting for **Miller** to come in and shoo me away. I wasn’t waiting for anything because there was nothing going on in that thread that was unusual and which hasn’t happened in a thousand other threads on this board, whether I was participating or not. However, I think I’ve reached the point now where I’ve said everything I have to say on this subject. I thank the posters who have come to my defense, and I’m happy that the board allows this forum for posters who feel they’ve been wronged to address their complaints. As far as I’m concerned, I’m ready to let the issue drop now and probably won’t be posting further to the thread unless something important enough to warrant it happens to come up. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2011, 1:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-miller-oversteps-his-bounds/590068/129 "2011-07-25T13:44:26Z")
Awake all night over this, eh? ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2011, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-miller-oversteps-his-bounds/590068/130 "2011-07-25T14:21:58Z")
More like awake all night, along with this. (And still awake now, doing other stuff, five hours later. 🆒) Oops. I said I wasn’t going to be posting anymore unless somebody said something important. Blew that one, didn’t I? 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2011, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-miller-oversteps-his-bounds/590068/131 "2011-07-25T14:28:16Z")
> [@Measure\_for\_Measure](#): > > 1. **Bricker** often finds himself in quandaries analogous to the one you had in the Susanann pitting. He’s gotten better at his game. He’s succinct without being preposterous and sticks close to his point. Coping strategies that would be unnecessary, in my opinion, if I were reliably liberal. But I choose to post on a board that leans stringly left for good reasons, the most compelling of which is it forces me to be able to defend propositions I hold against highly motivated attack, and either refine or disacrd them if they are wanting. It would be nice if I could do that in a more even-handed environment, but that’s probably an impossible goal, since the very one-sidedness that creates the zealous debate attacks I want also creates the zealous personal attacks I could do without. Irritating but small price to pay. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2011, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-miller-oversteps-his-bounds/590068/132 "2011-07-25T14:50:11Z")
> [@zoid](#): > > No we have not reached that consensus because that’s not what happened. Well, if I understand **Miller** , it was considered a hijack, and my description of events is accurate. Unless Miller wants to explain himself a bit more than he has to date, I will stand by my description. Miller did not want anything to interfere with the Pitting of **Susanan** , who he dislikes. **Starving Artist** ’s first point, that her position was being badly misttated, was accurate, since it was the Pit the focus shifted to attacks on **Starving Artist** , and **Miller** saw that the Pitting was not going as he liked. So he tried to silence the poster who was deflating the attacks on **Susanan**. Which is an abuse of his position. I suspect that on some level, Miller recognizes this, which is why he is so chary about explaining his position. simply saying it is a hijack without explaining how it is, or how it differs from the regular hijacks/derailments of Pittings of posters with which he disagrees less vehemently. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2011, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-miller-oversteps-his-bounds/590068/133 "2011-07-25T14:59:52Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Miller did not want anything to interfere with the Pitting of **Susanan** , who he dislikes. Breathtaking. ---
**Author:** ![El\_Kabong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/el_kabong/32/496_2.png) [@El\_Kabong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Kabong)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2011, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-miller-oversteps-his-bounds/590068/134 "2011-07-25T15:23:30Z")
[Quote=Shodan] Miller did not want anything to interfere with the Pitting of Susanan, who he dislikes. Starving Artist’s first point, that her position was being badly misttated, was accurate, since it was the Pit the focus shifted to attacks on Starving Artist, and Miller saw that the Pitting was not going as he liked. So he tried to silence the poster who was deflating the attacks on Susanan. [/Quote] All that based on two words, totalling six letters. Impressive. I don’t know, by the logic above, sounds almost as if **Miller** was doing **Starving Artist** a favor by saving him from further attack. Jeez, ya can’t win around here. ---
**Author:** ![zoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zoid/32/336_2.png) [@zoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zoid)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2011, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-miller-oversteps-his-bounds/590068/135 "2011-07-25T15:24:40Z")
Regards, Shodan [/QUOTE] > [@Shodan](#): > > Well, if I understand **Miller** , it was considered a hijack, and my description of events is accurate. Unless Miller wants to explain himself a bit more than he has to date, I will stand by my description. > > Miller did not want anything to interfere with the Pitting of **Susanan** , who he dislikes. **Starving Artist** ’s first point, that her position was being badly misttated, was accurate, since it was the Pit the focus shifted to attacks on **Starving Artist** , and **Miller** saw that the Pitting was not going as he liked. So he tried to silence the poster who was deflating the attacks on **Susanan**. > > Which is an abuse of his position. I suspect that on some level, Miller recognizes this, which is why he is so chary about explaining his position. simply saying it is a hijack without explaining how it is, or how it differs from the regular hijacks/derailments of Pittings of posters with which he disagrees less vehemently. > > Regards, > Shodan Your description of events is highly innaccurate. > [@Shodan](#): > > Miller did not want anything to interfere with the Pitting of **Susanan** , who he dislikes. **Starving Artist** ’s first point, that her position was being badly misttated, was accurate, since it was the Pit the focus shifted to attacks on **Starving Artist** , and **Miller** saw that the Pitting was not going as he liked. So he tried to silence the poster who was deflating the attacks on **Susanan**. This is not what happened. The thread was hijacked, nothing more nefarious was going on, you’re imagining motivation that does not exist. ---
**Author:** ![Drunky\_Smurf](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drunky_smurf/32/449_2.png) [@Drunky\_Smurf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drunky_Smurf)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2011, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-miller-oversteps-his-bounds/590068/136 "2011-07-25T15:38:48Z")
> [@zoid](#): > > _snip_ The thread was hijacked, nothing more nefarious was going on… _snip_. Yes it was, by Bosstone and then continued by other posters attacking SA simply because they do not like him. SA was simply responding to others attacking him. ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2011, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-miller-oversteps-his-bounds/590068/137 "2011-07-25T16:00:07Z")
> [@Drunky\_Smurf](#): > > Yes it was, by Bosstone and then continued by other posters attacking SA simply because they do not like him. Good thing the thread was in the Pit, eh? ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2011, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-miller-oversteps-his-bounds/590068/138 "2011-07-25T17:10:04Z")
> [@zoid](#): > > No we have not reached that consensus because that’s not what happened. Yes, it was. _That was easy._ ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2011, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-miller-oversteps-his-bounds/590068/139 "2011-07-25T17:15:56Z")
[QUOTE=zoid] Your description of events is highly innaccurate. [/QUOTE] No it’s not. It’s completely accurate. [QUOTE=zoid] This is not what happened. [/QUOTE] Yes, it is. [QUOTE=zoid] The thread was hijacked, nothing more nefarious was going on, you’re imagining motivation that does not exist. [/QUOTE] No, he’s not. It was a slight hijack—nothing out of the ordinary—of which SA was only partially responsible. The SA haters are the ones most responsible. Plus, fifteen minutes before Miller offered up his post, SA had politely said he was backing out of the discussion. ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2011, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-miller-oversteps-his-bounds/590068/140 "2011-07-25T17:39:02Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > Plus, fifteen minutes before Miller offered up his post, SA had politely said he was backing out of the discussion. Don’t read **SA** ’s posts often, do you? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-miller-oversteps-his-bounds/590068.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-miller-oversteps-his-bounds/590068.md?page=8)