# In which Piper Cub objects to the role of middle management **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [February 16, 2015, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-piper-cub-objects-to-the-role-of-middle-management/712828 "2015-02-16T17:22:06Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![BeeGee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/b5a626/32.png) [@BeeGee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BeeGee)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2015, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-piper-cub-objects-to-the-role-of-middle-management/712828/21 "2015-02-17T20:07:12Z")
You might consider throwing in a performance bond as well. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2015, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-piper-cub-objects-to-the-role-of-middle-management/712828/22 "2015-02-17T20:10:44Z")
Are you self-insuring? ---
**Author:** ![Zebra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/c0e974/32.png) [@Zebra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zebra)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2015, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-piper-cub-objects-to-the-role-of-middle-management/712828/23 "2015-02-17T20:27:31Z")
The next time he wants to get toys out are you going to make him file a Environmental Impact Statement? ---
**Author:** ![August\_West](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/august_west/32/18069_2.png) [@August\_West](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/August_West)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2015, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-piper-cub-objects-to-the-role-of-middle-management/712828/24 "2015-02-17T21:38:52Z")
> [@chappachula](#): > > Ummmm…“because the auditor says so” is the ONLY reason to do anything when you need ISO9001 certification. > > Just like “because Mom says so” is the only reason to pick up your toys. > > (except that Mom is usually more reasonable than ISO. 🙂 ) > > [off topic rant]: ISO is to business what the TSA is to airlines. It was a good idea when it started–after all, who doesn’t want safe air travel? But now, the TSA has morphed into a huge, living monster–an all-encompassing bureaucracy, which has completely forgotten its original purpose, and whose only concern is feeding itself and providing job security for its employees.)[/rant] As a Certified Lead Auditor (Exemplar Global) for ISO9001 I have to heartily disagree. TSA was a horrible idea to begin with. ---
**Author:** ![August\_West](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/august_west/32/18069_2.png) [@August\_West](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/August_West)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2015, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-piper-cub-objects-to-the-role-of-middle-management/712828/25 "2015-02-17T21:48:16Z")
Seriously, though, whomever was in charge of implementing your quality system did you a disservice. Your example of signing a statement that says you’ve received the proper training to do your job is perfect. As an auditor, that written statement is meaningless to me, but it does create an audit trail for me to loop back to your supervisor with quite a few questions about exactly what that statement means, whether you’ve received any other training since signing the statement, etc. Just because some people think ISO9001 means you have to have 75,000 documents doesn’t make it true. In fact, there only **six** procedures that you’re required to have documented. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2015, 1:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-piper-cub-objects-to-the-role-of-middle-management/712828/26 "2015-02-18T13:46:42Z")
I am overwhelmed by all the helpful suggestions. :eek: In true middle management style, I will prepare a compendium of all of the apparent deficiencies in our processes, and pass it up the chain for an overall policy directlve. 😃 [QUOTE=suranyi] How old is Piper Cub? Because he sounds a lot like my own five year old. [/QUOTE] Six and a half. ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2015, 1:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-piper-cub-objects-to-the-role-of-middle-management/712828/27 "2015-02-18T13:54:03Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > I am overwhelmed by all the helpful suggestions. :eek: > > In true middle management style, I will prepare a compendium of all of the apparent deficiencies in our processes, and pass it up the chain for an overall policy directlve. 😃 > > Six and a half. Well, there’s your problem - the cub is clearly being held back doing menial labor - you need to provide a mentee for cub to train so that cub can move on up the ladder. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2015, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-piper-cub-objects-to-the-role-of-middle-management/712828/28 "2015-02-18T15:10:18Z")
> [@Zebra](#): > > The next time he wants to get toys out are you going to make him file a Environmental Impact Statement? Jeez, I forgot sign in/sign out documents, one for each toy! ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2015, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-piper-cub-objects-to-the-role-of-middle-management/712828/29 "2015-02-18T16:29:20Z")
> [@chappachula](#): > > Ummmm…“because the auditor says so” is the ONLY reason to do anything when you need ISO9001 certification. > > Just like “because Mom says so” is the only reason to pick up your toys. > > (except that Mom is usually more reasonable than ISO. 🙂 ) No. Sorry, but that is wrong; that is what comes out of having had an ISO implementation/auditor of the kind who does not understand the norm they’re applying - and that’s for any ISO we’re talking about, not just 9000/12000. Allow me to explain ISO 9000 to you: - document what you do, how you do it. Not how it should be done in a perfect world, not how it would be done in a company with different people, not following the examples in the manual as if every company was identical to the examples. - then do it the way you have documented it. TADAAAAAAAAAAAA! ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2015, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-piper-cub-objects-to-the-role-of-middle-management/712828/30 "2015-02-18T17:04:11Z")
> [@Nava](#): > > No. Sorry, but that is wrong; that is what comes out of having had an ISO implementation/auditor of the kind who does not understand the norm they’re applying - and that’s for any ISO we’re talking about, not just 9000/12000. > > Allow me to explain ISO 9000 to you: > > - document what you do, how you do it. Not how it should be done in a perfect world, not how it would be done in a company with different people, not following the examples in the manual as if every company was identical to the examples. > - then do it the way you have documented it. Toy Retreival and Storage Systems Documentation 1. Toss toys on floor while playing; 2. Wait until mom & dad complain about toys on floor, and demand initiation of toy retrieval and storage procedures; 3. Start to pick up toys, grudgingly; 4. Get distracted playing with toys; 5. Mom and dad lose patience, pick up toys themselves; 6. Toy retrieval and storage complete. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![swampspruce](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/swampspruce/32/261_2.png) [@swampspruce](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/swampspruce)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2015, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-piper-cub-objects-to-the-role-of-middle-management/712828/31 "2015-02-18T18:58:07Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > Only the US military would create an 8-step procedure labeled “the seven step procedure”. 😃 It also has an acronym, as all military things must: S- Situation M- Mission E- Execution S- Service and Support C- Command and Signals At least in the Canadian military. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2015, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-piper-cub-objects-to-the-role-of-middle-management/712828/32 "2015-02-18T19:17:09Z")
> [@Malthus](#): > > Toy Retreival and Storage Systems Documentation > > 1. Toss toys on floor while playing; > > 2. Wait until mom & dad complain about toys on floor, and demand initiation of toy retrieval and storage procedures; > > 3. Start to pick up toys, grudgingly; > > 4. Get distracted playing with toys; > > 5. Mom and dad lose patience, pick up toys themselves; > > 6. Toy retrieval and storage complete. 😃 That would certainly be the usual procedure in many families. But what you sometimes see in the documents is: 1. Fill play-tool retrieval form (see appendix A). [Long-text explanation of every Ogette-damned field in the Og-damned form, followed by a table where each line contains: field name, field description, instructions, Required/Optional/To be filled by manager, and three other things nobody gives a shit about] 2. Deliver play-tool retrieval form to manager. 3. Manager approves play-tool retrieval form. [No mention of what happens in case of rejection] 4. Deliver play-tool retrieval form to play-space manager. 5. Play-space manager provides play-tools listed in form. 6. Proceed with entertainment activity. 7. At end of entertainment activity, child shall retrieve each individual play-tool and deposit said tool in its storage space (see Appendix B for list of assigned storage spaces). 8. After retrieval is complete, play-space manager shall verify the state of each individual play-tool and its correct placement. And for anybody who can actually believe that, I’ve got some primo real estate, very close to the beach. ---
**Author:** ![August\_West](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/august_west/32/18069_2.png) [@August\_West](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/August_West)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2015, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-piper-cub-objects-to-the-role-of-middle-management/712828/33 "2015-02-18T19:42:48Z")
> [@Nava](#): > > That would certainly be the usual procedure in many families. But what you sometimes see in the documents is: > > 1. Fill play-tool retrieval form (see appendix A). [Long-text explanation of every Ogette-damned field in the Og-damned form, followed by a table where each line contains: field name, field description, instructions, Required/Optional/To be filled by manager, and three other things nobody gives a shit about] > > 2. Deliver play-tool retrieval form to manager. > > 3. Manager approves play-tool retrieval form. [No mention of what happens in case of rejection] > > 4. Deliver play-tool retrieval form to play-space manager. > > 5. Play-space manager provides play-tools listed in form. > > 6. Proceed with entertainment activity. > > 7. At end of entertainment activity, child shall retrieve each individual play-tool and deposit said tool in its storage space (see Appendix B for list of assigned storage spaces). > > 8. After retrieval is complete, play-space manager shall verify the state of each individual play-tool and its correct placement. > And for anybody who can actually believe that, I’ve got some primo real estate, very close to the beach. Looks like you’ve got 15 reports for failures to properly store all play-tools. What’s your corrective action? “Retrain on the procedure” :smack: ISO Auditor humor! Only on the Dope! ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2015, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-piper-cub-objects-to-the-role-of-middle-management/712828/34 "2015-02-18T20:18:17Z")
> [@swampspruce](#): > > It also has an acronym, as all military things must: > S- Situation > M- Mission > E- Execution > S- Service and Support > C- Command and Signals > > At least in the Canadian military. SMESC? Isn’t that a terrorist spy organization? ---
**Author:** ![Omar\_Little](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omar_little/32/269_2.png) [@Omar\_Little](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omar_Little)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2015, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-piper-cub-objects-to-the-role-of-middle-management/712828/35 "2015-02-20T16:49:07Z")
Two biggest lies ever told: 1. _Corporate manager says_ “Hi, we’re from corporate and we’re here to help.” 2. _Division manager replies_ “We’re glad you’re here.” ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2015, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-piper-cub-objects-to-the-role-of-middle-management/712828/36 "2015-02-20T16:56:47Z")
> [@Omar\_Little](#): > > Two biggest lies ever told: > > 1. _Corporate manager says_ “Hi, we’re from corporate and we’re here to help.” > > 2. _Division manager replies_ “We’re glad you’re here.” 1. _Outside Consultant_: “We will simplify your problem”. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Telperion](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telperion/32/509_2.png) [@Telperion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telperion)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2015, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-piper-cub-objects-to-the-role-of-middle-management/712828/37 "2015-02-20T17:10:52Z")
> [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > SMESC? Isn’t that a terrorist spy organization? It’s SMERSH, and it was the Soviet counter-intelligence department during WW2. It literally means Death to Spies, which leaves very little ambiguity about their attitude to spying. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2015, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-piper-cub-objects-to-the-role-of-middle-management/712828/38 "2015-02-20T17:23:02Z")
> [@Telperion](#): > > It’s SMERSH, and it was the Soviet counter-intelligence department during WW2. It literally means Death to Spies, which leaves very little ambiguity about their attitude to spying. _By other countries_… ---
**Author:** ![Telperion](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telperion/32/509_2.png) [@Telperion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telperion)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2015, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-piper-cub-objects-to-the-role-of-middle-management/712828/39 "2015-02-20T17:37:45Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > _By other countries_… Well, obviously. It wouldn’t be very clever to have the counter-intelligence department target your own spies, now would it? ---
**Author:** ![user\_hostile](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/user_hostile/32/474_2.png) [@user\_hostile](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/user_hostile)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2015, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-piper-cub-objects-to-the-role-of-middle-management/712828/40 "2015-02-20T18:36:37Z")
Psst! **Piper Cub** , may I suggest you get in contact with [Mr. Harvey Richards](http://www.gocomics.com/tomthedancingbug/2015/02/05)? You’ll thank me later. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-piper-cub-objects-to-the-role-of-middle-management/712828.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-piper-cub-objects-to-the-role-of-middle-management/712828.md?page=3)