# In Which Pit WorldHelp, AKA Wolves Dressed as Sheep **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 13, 2005, 2:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-pit-worldhelp-aka-wolves-dressed-as-sheep/284550 "2005-01-13T14:05:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 19\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2005, 2:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-pit-worldhelp-aka-wolves-dressed-as-sheep/284550/1 "2005-01-13T14:05:13Z")
According to today’s _Washington Post_, WorldHelp, a Virginia-based Christian missionary group, has taken 300 Indonesian Muslim orphans from villages destroyed by the tsunami. Now, so far, so good. **I have nothing but praise for religious enterprises that use their faith to do good in the world.** But hold, methinks I smell an agenda in the air: > [@](#): > > “Normally, Banda Aceh is closed to foreigners and closed to the gospel. But, because of this catastrophe, our partners there are earning the right to be heard and providing entrance for the gospel,” WorldHelp said in an appeal for funds on its Web site this week. > > The appeal said WorldHelp was working with native-born Christians in Indonesia who want to “plant Christian principles as early as possible” in the 300 Muslim children, all younger than 12, who lost their parents in the tsunami. > > “These children are homeless, destitute, traumatized, orphaned, with nowhere to go, nowhere to sleep and nothing to eat. If we can place them in a Christian children’s home, their faith in Christ could become the foothold to reach the Aceh people,” it said. What about raising the kids in a Muslim home? It’s quite bad enough that these children have been victimized by nature, now you have to strip them of their identities? Which, BTW is a violation of Indonesian law. The president of WorldHelp claimed that he had permission from the Indonesian government, but apparently he’s lying. > [@](#): > > “We have no knowledge of this,” Foreign Ministry spokesman Marty Natalegawa said today in Jakarta. “If confirmed, this would constitute a serious violation of the standing ban by the Indonesian government on the adoption of Acehnese children affected by the tsunami disaster and appropriate steps would be taken accordingly.” He added that he did not believe any Indonesian official would have approved the transfer of the children. So I guess instead of doing as other Christian, Muslim, and Jewish charity groups have done, helping people with no strings attached, WorldHelp saw fresh children ready to be kidnapped from their country and indoctrinated with fundy Christian nonsense. Those kids were just sitting there, free for the taking, right? Manipulative bastards. And WorldHelp got skittish when they got caught helping themselves to orphans. [quote] The Web site was changed, and the appeal was removed yesterday after _The Washington Post_ called to inquire about it. [/quote Brewster is quoted as saying > [@](#): > > “These are children who are unclaimed or unwanted. We are not trying to rip them apart from any existing family members and change their culture and change their customs,” Brewer said. “These children are going to be raised in a Christian environment. That’s no guarantee they will choose to be Christians.” Color me skeptical, but I’m highly dubious that Inodnesian orphans in a fundy Christian orphanage won’t feel the teensiest pressure to convert and repent from their heathen ways. I wonder if they’ll call it the Ann Coulter Orphanage for Children God Hath Punished. And this is not to cast any aspersions on good Christian groups who are helping out of their goodness of their hearts. I’m pitting WorldHelp only. ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2005, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-pit-worldhelp-aka-wolves-dressed-as-sheep/284550/2 "2005-01-13T14:23:38Z")
[Linkety-linkety-link](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A5018-2005Jan12.html). ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2005, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-pit-worldhelp-aka-wolves-dressed-as-sheep/284550/3 "2005-01-13T14:39:26Z")
Pretty low. It seems to me that any organization simply going and helping feed and shelter people will bear sufficient witness to Christ’s message to become “the foothold to reach the Aceh people.” When you starting planning to indoctrinate kids, behind the back of their government, you start sending a very different message than the one Christ planned. Crummy. ---
**Author:** ![NurseCarmen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5daacb/32.png) [@NurseCarmen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NurseCarmen)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2005, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-pit-worldhelp-aka-wolves-dressed-as-sheep/284550/4 "2005-01-13T14:53:23Z")
Vultures. ---
**Author:** ![MEBuckner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mebuckner/32/2896_2.png) [@MEBuckner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MEBuckner)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2005, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-pit-worldhelp-aka-wolves-dressed-as-sheep/284550/5 "2005-01-13T19:53:03Z")
Should evangelical Christians be permitted to adopt children? I mean, I’m not prejudiced or anything, and I agree that we should try to find stable homes for orphaned children, but it seems to me too many evangelicals are just trying to recruit impressionable young children into the evangelical Christian lifestyle. ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2005, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-pit-worldhelp-aka-wolves-dressed-as-sheep/284550/6 "2005-01-13T20:02:16Z")
> [@MEBuckner](#): > > Should evangelical Christians be permitted to adopt children? I mean, I’m not prejudiced or anything, and I agree that we should try to find stable homes for orphaned children, but it seems to me too many evangelicals are just trying to recruit impressionable young children into the evangelical Christian lifestyle. I’m all for orphaned children finding good homes with loving parents, even with (shudder) fundies provided that (A) there are absolutely no relatives available who want the child and (b) that the local laws on adoption are observed. Didn’t happen here. ---
**Author:** ![Incubus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c68b51/32.png) [@Incubus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Incubus)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2005, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-pit-worldhelp-aka-wolves-dressed-as-sheep/284550/7 "2005-01-13T20:03:30Z")
Well, not condoning this institution in any way, but considering all the other terrible things going on in the wake of the tsunami (kidnappings and such) not to mention that the market for black market organs probably exploded thanks to the supply of orphaned 3rd world country children, suffering at the hands of religious indocrination certainly feels like the lesser of two evils here. Damned if ya do, damned if ya don’t. ---
**Author:** ![Orbifold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/779978/32.png) [@Orbifold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Orbifold)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2005, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-pit-worldhelp-aka-wolves-dressed-as-sheep/284550/8 "2005-01-13T20:19:22Z")
> [@Incubus](#): > > Damned if ya do, damned if ya don’t. You say that as though WorldHelp’s only choices were “help the kids, but indoctrinate them in the Christian faith” and “don’t help at all”. I’m pretty sure they could find a middle ground if they really wanted to. ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2005, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-pit-worldhelp-aka-wolves-dressed-as-sheep/284550/9 "2005-01-13T20:21:12Z")
> [@Incubus](#): > > Well, not condoning this institution in any way, but considering all the other terrible things going on in the wake of the tsunami (kidnappings and such) not to mention that the market for black market organs probably exploded thanks to the supply of orphaned 3rd world country children, Say what? I’m going to need a cite on this. ---
**Author:** ![Apos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/838e76/32.png) [@Apos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apos)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2005, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-pit-worldhelp-aka-wolves-dressed-as-sheep/284550/10 "2005-01-13T20:43:27Z")
> [@MEBuckner](#): > > Should evangelical Christians be permitted to adopt children? I mean, I’m not prejudiced or anything, and I agree that we should try to find stable homes for orphaned children, but it seems to me too many evangelicals are just trying to recruit impressionable young children into the evangelical Christian lifestyle. God forbid they adopt and care for kids because they care about them, instead of seeing them as a sort of biological mem warfare machine they can train on indigenous cultures. As Mother Theresa said: as long as we can make them good Christians, it’s actually a good thing that the poor suffer, because its enobling for the rest of us to watch. ---
**Author:** ![Incubus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c68b51/32.png) [@Incubus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Incubus)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2005, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-pit-worldhelp-aka-wolves-dressed-as-sheep/284550/11 "2005-01-13T21:02:15Z")
> [@gobear](#): > > Say what? I’m going to need a cite on this. [13,000 orphans in Asia](http://www.infobeat.com/index.cfm?action=article&id=1984491) > [@](#): > > U.S. State Department spokesman Adam Ereli said Wednesday that U.S. officials were appalled by reports of human trafficking, and said the United States was coordinating with governments and organizations in the region to assist in the return and repatriation of children. It would also be foolish to turn a blind eye to the [instability](http://www.unpo.org/news_detail.php?arg=05&par=273) of the reigon, even before the tsunami hit > [@](#): > > Is deeply concerned at the extension of martial law and military operations in Aceh and the ongoing violence, including armed skirmishes, **kidnappings** , killings and other acts of violence, particularly outside the major towns of Aceh Bolding mine. [Organ trafficking in third-world countries](http://lsa.unisa.ac.za/news/archive/august/vol4/human.html) ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2005, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-pit-worldhelp-aka-wolves-dressed-as-sheep/284550/12 "2005-01-13T21:09:28Z")
> [@Incubus](#): > > [13,000 orphans in Asia](http://www.infobeat.com/index.cfm?action=article&id=1984491) > > It would also be foolish to turn a blind eye to the [instability](http://www.unpo.org/news_detail.php?arg=05&par=273) of the reigon, even before the tsunami hit > Bolding mine. > > [Organ trafficking in third-world countries](http://lsa.unisa.ac.za/news/archive/august/vol4/human.html) [/quote] You need to evaluate your cites better because none of them specifically state that children are being kidnapped from Banda Acheh and dissected for their organs. ---
**Author:** ![Tapioca\_Dextrin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Tapioca\_Dextrin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tapioca_Dextrin)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2005, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-pit-worldhelp-aka-wolves-dressed-as-sheep/284550/13 "2005-01-13T21:13:27Z")
> [@Apos](#): > > God forbid they adopt and care for kids because they care about them, instead of seeing them as a sort of biological mem warfare machine they can train on indigenous cultures. > > As Mother Theresa said: as long as we can make them good Christians, it’s actually a good thing that the poor suffer, because its enobling for the rest of us to watch. Why not turn this on its head and see if qually acceptable. If an evangelical Muslim group turned up in the US after a natural disaster and started adopting children saying “These children are homeless, destitute, traumatized, orphaned, with nowhere to go, nowhere to sleep and nothing to eat. If we can place them in a Muslim children’s home, their faith in Allah could become the foothold to reach the American people” would that be acceptable? I’d bet Fox News would be upset. ---
**Author:** ![Eve](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Eve](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eve)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2005, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-pit-worldhelp-aka-wolves-dressed-as-sheep/284550/14 "2005-01-13T21:21:01Z")
From an AP article; both Christians and Muslims are cramming their respective gods down victims’ throats: > [@](#): > > BANDA ACEH, Indonesia (AP) - Muslim radicals are handing out Qurans with the bags of rice and sugar they distribute to tsunami victims. Christian aid groups have also rushed in, quietly promising salvation in this predominantly Islamic region but fearful their presence could spark sectarian violence. The groups include everyone from al-Qaida-linked militants to evangelical Christians, and their presence is most profound in Indonesia, where the needs are greatest and the cash-strapped government has thrown open the doors to foreign aid groups. > > The heavy Muslim influence in Aceh province - one of the few Indonesian regions that has instituted Islamic law - has defined how the groups operate . . . But evangelists like Wisconsin native Mark Kosinski say it’s impossible to separate relief activities from sharing the Gospel. He acknowledged he was warned to tone down his message but says he has “a job to do.” “These people need food but they also need Jesus,” said Kosinski, who arrived this week from Malaysia. “God is trying to awaken people and help them realize that salvation is in Christ.” > > “We need religion. We need to remember our God,” said Sari Andina, a 23-year-old teacher whose camp features a mosque where children are taught Islamic studies. For party members like Jamy, the Dec. 26 tsunami was a warning for Muslims. He and other volunteers say that another disaster is inevitable unless people start living according to the teaching of the Quran. “We tell them this came from God and we have to be strong,” said Jamy, who like many Indonesians uses only one name. “This is some kind of a lesson. People forgot about God and he has now punished them. Maybe now people will realize what they have done and start going to the mosque.” Ass-monkeys, all of 'em. This is why I never contribute money to any religious groups. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2005, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-pit-worldhelp-aka-wolves-dressed-as-sheep/284550/15 "2005-01-13T21:37:52Z")
> [@Gobear](#): > > What about raising the kids in a Muslim home? It’s quite bad enough that these children have been victimized by nature, now you have to strip them of their identities? Identities? I thought you were one of those who hold that faith is merely a choice. I don’t think of that sort of thing as being an identity. I mean, I wouldn’t say, look for the guy who likes brussel sprouts because, hey, maybe he’s changed his mind. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2005, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-pit-worldhelp-aka-wolves-dressed-as-sheep/284550/16 "2005-01-13T21:45:17Z")
Hey, **gobear** and **Apos** , how come your hair is sticking up all funny-like? ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2005, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-pit-worldhelp-aka-wolves-dressed-as-sheep/284550/17 "2005-01-13T21:53:15Z")
> [@Liberal](#): > > Identities? I thought you were one of those who hold that faith is merely a choice. I don’t think of that sort of thing as being an identity. I mean, I wouldn’t say, look for the guy who likes brussel sprouts because, hey, maybe he’s changed his mind. I was thinking more like the Native American kids stolen by missionaries in the US,; bereft of language, culture, community, family, AND religion. That’s what’s going on in this case. That you can only see identity as religion just shows how narrow your vision is. In any event, identity in children and adults are different concepts. ---
**Author:** ![Apos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/838e76/32.png) [@Apos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apos)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2005, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-pit-worldhelp-aka-wolves-dressed-as-sheep/284550/18 "2005-01-13T22:23:47Z")
> [@Tapioca Dextrin](#): > > Why not turn this on its head and see if qually acceptable. If an evangelical Muslim group turned up in the US after a natural disaster and started adopting children saying > > “These children are homeless, destitute, traumatized, orphaned, with nowhere to go, nowhere to sleep and nothing to eat. If we can place them in a Muslim children’s home, their faith in Allah could become the foothold to reach the American people” > > would that be acceptable? I’d bet Fox News would be upset. So would I. Wanting to use children as your proxy for a cultural war isn’t cool. Wanting to use children in general is not cool. Now, I doubt these groups see it that way. Although most evangelical Christian groups don’t put it this way in public, they litterly believe that they are basically doing what the Dutch did for the Jews in WWII: saving people from the gas chamber of hell. They are saving these kids. And if you believe what they believe, it’s almost a moral imperative. So I have to have some degree of understanding for how they see things. But even they are hesistant to really come out and say that. And in the end, I do think the kids suffer because in the end they do get treated like footballs. > [@](#): > > Identities? I thought you were one of those who hold that faith is merely a choice. I don’t think of that sort of thing as being an identity. I mean, I wouldn’t say, look for the guy who likes brussel sprouts because, hey, maybe he’s changed his mind. Getting offtopic here a little, but personally, I give no creedence whatsoever to the idea that particular cultures or identities should be specially maintained. Cultural mixing and intra-cultural diversity is a good thing. That doesn’t mean that things like colonialism and missionary sins can’t do great evil, however. And I don’t think belief is fully a choice: it clearly is in part an identity that you can’t just on any given day decide to change like snapping your fingers. Change can happen, but its rarely predictable or straightforward. ---
**Author:** ![Incubus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c68b51/32.png) [@Incubus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Incubus)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2005, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-pit-worldhelp-aka-wolves-dressed-as-sheep/284550/19 "2005-01-13T23:34:23Z")
You need to evaluate your cites better because none of them specifically state that children are being kidnapped from Banda Acheh and dissected for their organs. [/QUOTE] I never claimed they were. I merely said it was a possibility.