# In which Steophan hijacks an ATMB thread about misogyny by accusing Blasey Ford of false accusation **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 18, 2019, 1:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-steophan-hijacks-an-atmb-thread-about-misogyny-by-accusing-blasey-ford-of-false-accusation/843610 "2019-11-18T13:07:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2019, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-steophan-hijacks-an-atmb-thread-about-misogyny-by-accusing-blasey-ford-of-false-accusation/843610/161 "2019-11-21T19:57:33Z")
> [@margin](#): > > Zimmerman was also explicitly told by actual cops to back off, but instead he went after Martin. That’s absolutely false. He had no direct communication with actual cops before the shooting, and the advice he was given by the phone operator was that he didn’t need to follow him. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2019, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-steophan-hijacks-an-atmb-thread-about-misogyny-by-accusing-blasey-ford-of-false-accusation/843610/162 "2019-11-21T20:01:00Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > So, how come Ford’s circumstantial evidence is not real evidence and should be tossed out? :dubious: There is no circumstantial evidence to support Ford’s claim. That is the problem if you want to believe her in the face of the strong evidence that she’s wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2019, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-steophan-hijacks-an-atmb-thread-about-misogyny-by-accusing-blasey-ford-of-false-accusation/843610/163 "2019-11-21T20:11:59Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > This is untrue. Depending on the circumstances, “following someone and asking them what they’re doing” could certainly qualify as one of any number of crimes, for example it could qualify as “menacing”. No it couldn’t. There would need to be several additional elements to reach even that minor level. > [@](#): > > No, but as a black man living in a country and state where black men have often been the target of “vigilante justice” while being guilty of no crime, it is very understandable why he may have been spooked. So what? It doesn’t matter how spooked he was if there was no imminent threat of serious harm. > [@](#): > > Cite? Zimmerman’s otherwise inexplicable injuries. The main cite, though, is the trial. From your posts here, it’s clear you haven’t looked at the actual evidence presented, and are constantly ignoring the people who tell you what that evidence was. > [@](#): > > Do you have any evidence whatsoever that Martin wasn’t feeling threatened, for example because Zimmerman brandished the gun at him, as he would do to his girlfriend on Nov 18, 2013? Zimmerman has a long history of violence, such as when he attacked another girlfriend on Jan 9, 2015 with a wine bottle, or on Nov 9, 2016 when he started yelling at a waitress until the cops were called to escort him off the premises, at which point he told the police officer removing him that he “didn’t know he were a [N Word] lover”. You have it backwards, you need to prove he did do that. Which you can’t, because it didn’t happen. **Shodan** has already explained why. As for your other claims, they again are unsupported allegations that are so unlikely to be true they didn’t even get to court. In fact, both of the claims by his partners were shown to be false - there was no gun involved in the first incident, and the woman admitted to lying, as did the woman who made the second allegation. In fact, Zimmerman has never been convicted of any crime, and the only violent crime I know about that he was involved in lead to someone being convicted for attempting to murder him. Once again, you are factually wrong about just about every claim you make. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2019, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-steophan-hijacks-an-atmb-thread-about-misogyny-by-accusing-blasey-ford-of-false-accusation/843610/164 "2019-11-21T20:19:57Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > No it couldn’t. There would need to be several additional elements to reach even that minor level. Precisely, and luckily for Zimmerman, he killed Martin, so we’ll never find out if any of those additional elements occurred. > [@](#): > > Zimmerman’s otherwise inexplicable injuries. The main cite, though, is the trial. From your posts here, it’s clear you haven’t looked at the actual evidence presented, and are constantly ignoring the people who tell you what that evidence was. You’re hillarious > [@](#): > > You have it backwards, you need to prove he did do that. Which you can’t, because Because Zimmerman killed an unarmed kid, so we’ll never get to hear the other side of the story > [@](#): > > In fact, both of the claims by his partners were shown to be false - there was no gun involved in the first incident, and the woman admitted to lying, as did the woman who made the second allegation. Just because a woman drops the charges doesn’t mean she was lying. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2019, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-steophan-hijacks-an-atmb-thread-about-misogyny-by-accusing-blasey-ford-of-false-accusation/843610/165 "2019-11-21T20:26:36Z")
The fact that your only defense is, “He hasn’t been convicted of anything and the evidence wouldn’t hold up in court!” is pretty telling. I’m not saying Zimmerman should be in jail, because based on Florida law, he shouldn’t. I AM saying that he’s a waste of oxygen; morally equivalent to a murderer, whatever his legal status; and a generally vile human being all around. I would ALSO argue that Stand Your Ground is a terrible law that causes situations like this to occur. But I’m not a lawyer, and I’m making no legal arguments. The fact that you and Shodan resort to them is, as I said, telling. “My client may be a piece of shit, but here’s a list of technicalities that get him off!” ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2019, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-steophan-hijacks-an-atmb-thread-about-misogyny-by-accusing-blasey-ford-of-false-accusation/843610/166 "2019-11-21T20:27:24Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > Just because a woman drops the charges doesn’t mean she was lying. Yes, it does. She was either lying when she said it happened, or lying when she said it didn’t. Also, again you show a complete lack of grasp of the facts - an individual can’t drop the charges against someone, it’s the state that charges. Which they would have done had there been actual evidence. We have a very clear pattern, though, We have Zimmerman repeatedly being accused of violence, and those accusations repeatedly being shown to be unsupported or actually false. What is clearly happening is that people, presumably encouraged by people with views like yours, think they can accuse him of anything because of the Martin case and be believed. People like you lead to an attempt to murder him - as if being the victim of an unprovoked attack and having to kill someone to defend himself wasn’t bad enough. Check again what actually happened. Zimmerman is the fucking _victim_ here. All these attacks on him are a much finer example of victim-blaming that anything that’s been said about Ms Ford, or anyone else in this thread. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2019, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-steophan-hijacks-an-atmb-thread-about-misogyny-by-accusing-blasey-ford-of-false-accusation/843610/167 "2019-11-21T20:29:18Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > Yes, it does. She was either lying when she said it happened, or lying when she said it didn’t. Also, again you show a complete lack of grasp of the facts - an individual can’t drop the charges against someone, it’s the state that charges. Which they would have done had there been actual evidence. > > We have a very clear pattern, though, We have Zimmerman repeatedly being accused of violence, and those accusations repeatedly being shown to be unsupported or actually false. What is clearly happening is that people, presumably encouraged by people with views like yours, think they can accuse him of anything because of the Martin case and be believed. People like you lead to an attempt to murder him - as if being the victim of an unprovoked attack and having to kill someone to defend himself wasn’t bad enough. > > Check again what actually happened. Zimmerman is the fucking _victim_ here. All these attacks on him are a much finer example of victim-blaming that anything that’s been said about Ms Ford, or anyone else in this thread. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA Wait, you’re serious? Oh, my God. Get help. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2019, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-steophan-hijacks-an-atmb-thread-about-misogyny-by-accusing-blasey-ford-of-false-accusation/843610/168 "2019-11-21T20:30:00Z")
Just remember, everyone – **Steophan** is someone who described a convicted child murderer who shot at fleeing children as “the sort of people normal people want around them”. There’s not really much point in discussing right and wrong with someone like that. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2019, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-steophan-hijacks-an-atmb-thread-about-misogyny-by-accusing-blasey-ford-of-false-accusation/843610/169 "2019-11-21T20:31:17Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Just remember, everyone – **Steophan** is someone who described a convicted child murderer who shot at fleeing children as “the sort of people normal people want around them”. There’s not really much point in discussing right and wrong with someone like that. Yep, I think you are correct. Thanks for the reminder, I’ve fixed the glaring omission on my Ignore list. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2019, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-steophan-hijacks-an-atmb-thread-about-misogyny-by-accusing-blasey-ford-of-false-accusation/843610/170 "2019-11-21T20:33:28Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > The fact that your only defense is, “He hasn’t been convicted of anything and the evidence wouldn’t hold up in court!” is pretty telling. I’m not saying Zimmerman should be in jail, because based on Florida law, he shouldn’t. I AM saying that he’s a waste of oxygen; morally equivalent to a murderer, whatever his legal status; and a generally vile human being all around. I would ALSO argue that Stand Your Ground is a terrible law that causes situations like this to occur. But I’m not a lawyer, and I’m making no legal arguments. The fact that you and Shodan resort to them is, as I said, telling. “My client may be a piece of shit, but here’s a list of technicalities that get him off!” No, that’s not my fucking argument. My argument is that Zimmerman was attacked by Martin, had to defend himself, and you are blaming him for that. You are what _actual_ victim-blaming looks like. He’s morally a far better person than you are. The accusations aren’t just technically not proven, they are in most cases - specifically the shooting of Martin and the allegation of brandishing a gun at his partner - provably false. Stand Your Ground should be considered a basic human right. The only person to blame for Trayvon Martin’s death is Trayvon Martin, who caused it when he attacked Zimmerman. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2019, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-steophan-hijacks-an-atmb-thread-about-misogyny-by-accusing-blasey-ford-of-false-accusation/843610/171 "2019-11-21T20:35:02Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA > > Wait, you’re serious? > > Oh, my God. > > Get help. You are the one who needs help. You think it’s appropriate to laugh at the victims of violent crime. You are fucking scum. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2019, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-steophan-hijacks-an-atmb-thread-about-misogyny-by-accusing-blasey-ford-of-false-accusation/843610/172 "2019-11-21T20:36:56Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > Right, so we are back to the “the savage black, his rage fueled by mary–joo–ana, was overcome by bloodlust and attacked Zimmerman unprovoked” theory. Well, we certainly have disposed of your theory of Martin attacking Zimmerman because Zimmerman brandished a gun. But it is encouraging to see you recognize this, at least for a moment. Progress! Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2019, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-steophan-hijacks-an-atmb-thread-about-misogyny-by-accusing-blasey-ford-of-false-accusation/843610/173 "2019-11-21T20:39:06Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Just remember, everyone – **Steophan** is someone who described a convicted child murderer who shot at fleeing children as “the sort of people normal people want around them”. There’s not really much point in discussing right and wrong with someone like that. If you don’t think defending yourself against someone who threatens you with a fucking shotgun is acceptable behaviour, then you have no morals whatsoever. I’d rather have him or Zimmerman as neighbours than you. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2019, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-steophan-hijacks-an-atmb-thread-about-misogyny-by-accusing-blasey-ford-of-false-accusation/843610/174 "2019-11-21T20:42:01Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > If you don’t think defending yourself against someone who threatens you with a fucking shotgun is acceptable behaviour How do you know they threatened him with a “fucking shotgun”? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2019, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-steophan-hijacks-an-atmb-thread-about-misogyny-by-accusing-blasey-ford-of-false-accusation/843610/175 "2019-11-21T20:46:28Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > How do you know they threatened him with a “fucking shotgun”? He doesn’t. He just, apparently, likes to take the word, with no other evidence, of people who kill black children, even when they’re proven liars. If you can’t trust the word of a proven liar and convicted child murder who shot at fleeing children, who can you trust? ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2019, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-steophan-hijacks-an-atmb-thread-about-misogyny-by-accusing-blasey-ford-of-false-accusation/843610/176 "2019-11-21T20:48:44Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > How do you know they threatened him with a “fucking shotgun”? Because old guys with no criminal record don’t go around shooting people for no reason. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2019, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-steophan-hijacks-an-atmb-thread-about-misogyny-by-accusing-blasey-ford-of-false-accusation/843610/177 "2019-11-21T20:49:23Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > If you don’t think defending yourself against someone who threatens you with a fucking shotgun is acceptable behaviour, then you have no morals whatsoever. I’d rather have him or Zimmerman as neighbours than you. Everyone read this carefully - Steophan would rather have, as a neighbor, a convicted child murder who shot at fleeing children, vs a stranger with no criminal record, because of a disagreement. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2019, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-steophan-hijacks-an-atmb-thread-about-misogyny-by-accusing-blasey-ford-of-false-accusation/843610/178 "2019-11-21T20:49:49Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > He doesn’t. He just, apparently, likes to take the word, with no other evidence, of people who kill black children, even when they’re proven liars. > > If you can’t trust the word of a proven liar and convicted child murder who shot at fleeing children, who can you trust? You are a proven liar, and a paedophile. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2019, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-steophan-hijacks-an-atmb-thread-about-misogyny-by-accusing-blasey-ford-of-false-accusation/843610/179 "2019-11-21T20:51:35Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > Because old guys with no criminal record don’t go around shooting people for no reason. Hmmm…what about [this guy](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephen_Paddock) ? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2019, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-steophan-hijacks-an-atmb-thread-about-misogyny-by-accusing-blasey-ford-of-false-accusation/843610/180 "2019-11-21T20:51:47Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > You are a proven liar, and a paedophile. Here it is, folks. Just in case it gets edited. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-steophan-hijacks-an-atmb-thread-about-misogyny-by-accusing-blasey-ford-of-false-accusation/843610.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-steophan-hijacks-an-atmb-thread-about-misogyny-by-accusing-blasey-ford-of-false-accusation/843610.md?page=10)