# In which Stoid (The Prosecutor) Cross-examines Bricker (George Zimmerman) **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [April 22, 2012, 5:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-stoid-the-prosecutor-cross-examines-bricker-george-zimmerman/619561 "2012-04-22T05:35:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 17
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2012, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-stoid-the-prosecutor-cross-examines-bricker-george-zimmerman/619561/321 "2012-05-04T01:53:12Z")
I’ve been teaching some of my kids about “solved games,” games where if you go first, you can guarantee victory. I’ve given them a game with a complex solution ([Nim](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nim)) and asked them to look for winning positions, positions from which they can’t possibly lose. Over and over I have kids come up to me claiming a position is winning, but it’s not, so I calmly play against them and beat them. They look so puzzled, and sometimes they’ll say, “Yeah, but if you did THIS instead, then I’d win.” I have to explain to them that it’s only a winning position if you win despite what your opponent does, not if your opponent plays into your hands. Not sure what reminded me of this story. ---
**Author:** ![TokyoBayer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tokyobayer/32/13989_2.png) [@TokyoBayer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TokyoBayer)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2012, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-stoid-the-prosecutor-cross-examines-bricker-george-zimmerman/619561/322 "2012-05-04T02:31:17Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > They look so puzzled, and sometimes they’ll say, “Yeah, but if you did THIS instead, then I’d win.” I have to explain to them that it’s only a winning position if you win despite what your opponent does, not if your opponent plays into your hands. This is what I like to call “red teaming,” which is to have someone pretend to be your opponent go through and poke holes in your defenses. It can be really easy to get caught up yourself in your strengths. ---
**Author:** ![TokyoBayer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tokyobayer/32/13989_2.png) [@TokyoBayer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TokyoBayer)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2012, 2:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-stoid-the-prosecutor-cross-examines-bricker-george-zimmerman/619561/323 "2012-05-04T02:35:49Z")
> [@BottledBlondJeanie](#): > > Can’t…help…self. Think she’s probably going to attribute some expert-ish oinions from you as security personnel i.e., how you’re trained to handle certain situations. I would assume a ruling on a motion in limine allowing certain questions, but not on an expert basis unless defense opens the door, but also a limiting instruction. Good call. ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2012, 4:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-stoid-the-prosecutor-cross-examines-bricker-george-zimmerman/619561/324 "2012-05-04T04:50:45Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > I don’t exactly know. Everything was happening so quickly. I think he just had one hand on my forehead, with the heel of his palm shoving forward so that my head slammed back into what I think was the sidewalk. I think both my hands were in front of me trying to push him away but he had a lt more reach than I did, because he was so much taller. So all you did was give a few ineffectual pushes with your hopelessly short arms and weak arms? You never tried to punch, grab, scratch, slap, or otherwise fight back or attempt to gain control or stop him? It was just try to push, fail, then " I have no choice but to blow a hole in his chest"? ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2012, 4:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-stoid-the-prosecutor-cross-examines-bricker-george-zimmerman/619561/325 "2012-05-04T04:52:43Z")
> [@Stoid](#): > > So all you did was give a few ineffectual pushes with your hopelessly short arms and weak arms? You never tried to punch, grab, scratch, slap, or otherwise fight back or attempt to gain control or stop him? It was just try to push, fail, then " I have no choice but to blow a hole in his chest"? You’re starting to sound ridiculous now. You should at least stay within the spirit of your own thread, and make a good faith effort to ascertain the facts, rather than pursue this snide, leading line of questioning. ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2012, 7:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-stoid-the-prosecutor-cross-examines-bricker-george-zimmerman/619561/326 "2012-05-04T07:28:46Z")
> [@Stoid](#): > > So all you did was give a few ineffectual pushes with your hopelessly short arms and weak arms? You never tried to punch, grab, scratch, slap, or otherwise fight back or attempt to gain control or stop him? It was just try to push, fail, then " I have no choice but to blow a hole in his chest"? Weird. You (the prosecutor) just said that Zimmerman had hopelessly short and weak arms. Why would you make him look like a weak person who was at the mercy of someone more powerful than him? Not only that, but you’ve conceded that Zimmerman was under attack! You’re trying to prosecute this guy not bolster his defense. ---
**Author:** ![BottledBlondJeanie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/0ea827/32.png) [@BottledBlondJeanie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BottledBlondJeanie)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2012, 10:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-stoid-the-prosecutor-cross-examines-bricker-george-zimmerman/619561/327 "2012-05-04T10:44:18Z")
> [@mhendo](#): > > You’re starting to sound ridiculous now. > > You should at least stay within the spirit of your own thread, and make a good faith effort to ascertain the facts, rather than pursue this snide, leading line of questioning. Leading the witness is perfectly acceptable as he is a hostile witness on cross. Frankly, most of the line of questioning should force Zimmerman/Bricker to only answer “yes” or “no.” All of this compound, argumentative questioning/testifying would never be allowed. ---
**Author:** ![brazil84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8491ac/32.png) [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2012, 12:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-stoid-the-prosecutor-cross-examines-bricker-george-zimmerman/619561/328 "2012-05-04T12:32:20Z")
> [@BottledBlondJeanie](#): > > Leading the witness is perfectly acceptable as he is a hostile witness on cross. I agree, but I think **Stoid** ’s question was objectionable as overly argumentative. ---
**Author:** ![GrandWino](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grandwino/32/67_2.png) [@GrandWino](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GrandWino)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2012, 12:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-stoid-the-prosecutor-cross-examines-bricker-george-zimmerman/619561/329 "2012-05-04T12:47:09Z")
So is the Shyamalan twist here going to be that Stoid believed Zimmerman’s story all along? She’s doing all his work for him. ---
**Author:** ![Living\_Well\_Is\_Best\_Revenge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/6bbea6/32.png) [@Living\_Well\_Is\_Best\_Revenge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Living_Well_Is_Best_Revenge)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2012, 1:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-stoid-the-prosecutor-cross-examines-bricker-george-zimmerman/619561/330 "2012-05-04T13:03:27Z")
> [@Bob Ducca](#): > > So is the Shyamalan twist here going to be that Stoid believed Zimmerman’s story all along? She’s doing all his work for him. LOL. ---
**Author:** ![enomaj](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/59ef9b/32.png) [@enomaj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enomaj)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2012, 1:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-stoid-the-prosecutor-cross-examines-bricker-george-zimmerman/619561/331 "2012-05-04T13:04:03Z")
> [@Bob Ducca](#): > > So is the Shyamalan twist here going to be that Stoid believed Zimmerman’s story all along? She’s doing all his work for him. [I see Black people.](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zEuC5GF_Lts) ---
**Author:** ![BottledBlondJeanie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/0ea827/32.png) [@BottledBlondJeanie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BottledBlondJeanie)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2012, 1:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-stoid-the-prosecutor-cross-examines-bricker-george-zimmerman/619561/332 "2012-05-04T13:22:09Z")
> [@brazil84](#): > > I agree, but I think **Stoid** ’s question was objectionable as overly argumentative. Agreed. That’s why I followed it with “All of this compound, argumentative questioning/testifying would never be allowed.” ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2012, 1:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-stoid-the-prosecutor-cross-examines-bricker-george-zimmerman/619561/333 "2012-05-04T13:22:31Z")
> [@BottledBlondJeanie](#): > > Leading the witness is perfectly acceptable as he is a hostile witness on cross. Frankly, most of the line of questioning should force Zimmerman/Bricker to only answer “yes” or “no.” All of this compound, argumentative questioning/testifying would never be allowed. _Then the judge would have to stop it_ sua sponte\*, because while I certainly would object if I thought it was hurting my guy, I think it’s making him look even more sympathetic, so as the defense counsel, I’m certainly not going to step in and stop it.\* ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2012, 1:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-stoid-the-prosecutor-cross-examines-bricker-george-zimmerman/619561/334 "2012-05-04T13:27:18Z")
> [@Stoid](#): > > So all you did was give a few ineffectual pushes with your hopelessly short arms and weak arms? You never tried to punch, grab, scratch, slap, or otherwise fight back or attempt to gain control or stop him? It was just try to push, fail, then " I have no choice but to blow a hole in his chest"? I didn’t say weak, just that he had a longer reach than I did. And yes, of course I tried to push him off and punch him, but lying on the ground it wasn’t easy for me to punch with any force. I can’t bench press 150 pounds at the gym. I couldn’t lift a 150 pound guy off me. And it’s not like he was just sitting there quietly letting me push; he was fighting back hitting me. He was really mad, really angry. ---
**Author:** ![BottledBlondJeanie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/0ea827/32.png) [@BottledBlondJeanie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BottledBlondJeanie)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2012, 1:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-stoid-the-prosecutor-cross-examines-bricker-george-zimmerman/619561/335 "2012-05-04T13:46:42Z")
True Bricker, just because a question is improper/objectionable does not mean it’s always a good idea to object. I’d be sitting at table trying to suppress my smile. ---
**Author:** ![furt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/439d5e/32.png) [@furt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/furt)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2012, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-stoid-the-prosecutor-cross-examines-bricker-george-zimmerman/619561/336 "2012-05-04T15:12:35Z")
> [@Bob Ducca](#): > > So is the Shyamalan twist here going to be that Stoid believed Zimmerman’s story all along? She’s doing all his work for him. _Believed_ him? The whole thing was a set-up from the jump, and they’re gonna split the proceeds from the book and movie rights and move to Brazil together. ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2012, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-stoid-the-prosecutor-cross-examines-bricker-george-zimmerman/619561/337 "2012-05-04T15:13:30Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > I I couldn’t lift a 150 pound guy off me. . Except you just told us that you could: that’s exactly what you did to get to your gun to kill him. ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2012, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-stoid-the-prosecutor-cross-examines-bricker-george-zimmerman/619561/338 "2012-05-04T15:26:39Z")
> [@Stoid](#): > > Except you just told us that you could: that’s exactly what you did to get to your gun to kill him. Cite? ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2012, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-stoid-the-prosecutor-cross-examines-bricker-george-zimmerman/619561/339 "2012-05-04T15:49:00Z")
> [@Stoid](#): > > Except you just told us that you could: that’s exactly what you did to get to your gun to kill him. No, ma’am. I wasn’t able to get him off me. I was able to get him to move enough that I could get my gun out of its holster. In the gym, I can move the 150 pound setting on the bench press, but I can’t lift the bar completely. Same thing here. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2012, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-stoid-the-prosecutor-cross-examines-bricker-george-zimmerman/619561/340 "2012-05-04T17:05:37Z")
> [@BottledBlondJeanie](#): > > Leading the witness is perfectly acceptable as he is a hostile witness on cross. Frankly, most of the line of questioning should force Zimmerman/Bricker to only answer “yes” or “no.” All of this compound, argumentative questioning/testifying would never be allowed. Right. I shouldn’t have said leading. It was more the obviously sarcastic and derisive language that i was talking about. As **Bricker** says, though, it’s mainly serving to make the witness look more sympathetic. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-stoid-the-prosecutor-cross-examines-bricker-george-zimmerman/619561.md?page=16) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-stoid-the-prosecutor-cross-examines-bricker-george-zimmerman/619561.md?page=18)