# In which Stoid (The Prosecutor) Cross-examines Bricker (George Zimmerman) **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [April 22, 2012, 5:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-stoid-the-prosecutor-cross-examines-bricker-george-zimmerman/619561 "2012-04-22T05:35:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2012, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-stoid-the-prosecutor-cross-examines-bricker-george-zimmerman/619561/41 "2012-04-22T23:38:23Z")
I don’t want us to get too lost, Mr. Zimmerman, so I’m restating my map-related questions to help you focus when you have an opportunity to examine the map so you can answer the following questions. Please, as much as you are able, indicate the time periods for each event or period between. Just your best approximation, of course. [ul] [li] What were you doing when you first saw Trayvon, the point at which you observed him and he sruck you as suspicious?[/li][li] If you were traveling in your truck, which direction were you facing, where were you, and where was Trayvon?[/li][li] At that time, when you first observed Trayvon, did you continue moving, did you stop, did you park, did you change direction?[/li][li] How long after you first observed Trayvon did you call the police, and where were you when you did so? If you have not already indicated and described it, please explain how your position changed relative to the start, and how Trayvon’s changed, if it did.[/li][li] Where was Trayvon when you told the dispatcher he was coming towards you?[/li][li] Where was Trayvon when you told the dispatcher he was running, and where did he run to that you lost sight of him?[/li][li] Where did you go at that point, when you lost sight of him? I assume you went somewhere, changed your position in some way because you lost track of where you were.[/li][/ul] To refresh your memory, you said: > [@](#): > > As the dispatcher said the police were en route,the individual began to move, and I was afraid he would get away before the police arrived. _ **I started to follow him.** _ Do you mean you followed him on foot, that you exited the vehicle, or do you mean that you drove after him somehow? Please refer to the map in explaining your answer. > [@](#): > > The dispatcher realized I was following him and asked me not to. I think the words used were “We don’t need you to do that.” And I thought, sure, they don’t need me, they don’t have to live with more break-ins. But I was sick of calling the cops, they take their sweet time, and the prowler gets away. Do you mean us to understand, then, that you disregarded the dispatcher and persisted in following Trayvon, either on foot or your vehicle? Or should we take this simply as commentary? > [@](#): > > I lost sight of the individual about halfway down the block and I realized I had been watching for him and talking to the police and had gotten turned around in my head; Presumably this is because at some point in the sequence of events you changed position, moving in some way from where you started? Or should we take this to mean that you had not moved the vehicle since you first saw Trayvon, you had only followed him on foot? Or something else? ---
**Author:** ![voltaire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voltaire/32/313_2.png) [@voltaire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/voltaire)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2012, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-stoid-the-prosecutor-cross-examines-bricker-george-zimmerman/619561/42 "2012-04-22T23:44:28Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Are we allowed to place any bets in this thread? 'Cause I wanna put some dough on **Bricker**. Heh, I’m expecting a Jedi Cochran line in the closing, like “If his head is split, you MUST acquit!” ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2012, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-stoid-the-prosecutor-cross-examines-bricker-george-zimmerman/619561/43 "2012-04-22T23:47:45Z")
> [@AClockworkMelon](#): > > I think 12 Dopers should be chosen randomly to determine the winner of this contest. I volunteer to interview the candidates and ensure that they are impartial. I’m for it, but only if we do a mock voire dire in a separate thread. (It would get too cluttered in this one.) ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2012, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-stoid-the-prosecutor-cross-examines-bricker-george-zimmerman/619561/44 "2012-04-22T23:55:43Z")
Can I be the bailiff? I already have the uniform and the sassy one-liners. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2012, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-stoid-the-prosecutor-cross-examines-bricker-george-zimmerman/619561/45 "2012-04-22T23:58:29Z")
> [@Stoid](#): > > Mr. Zimmerman, please indicate on the map exactly where you were when you first observed Mr. Martin. Also tell us if you were moving, and if so what direction. Also indicate where you were at the point you called the police and spoke with the dispatcher, and where Mr. Martin was at that time, when you were describing him as “coming toward” you. Also please indicate where Mr. Martin was running when he ran, as you described to the dispatcher. How would anyone actually know that? People aren’t like Jeffy in the Family Circus, there’s no little lines of dashes following you around.:rolleyes: I have been in complexes like those, and they can get very confusing, as everything is very similar. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2012, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-stoid-the-prosecutor-cross-examines-bricker-george-zimmerman/619561/46 "2012-04-22T23:59:34Z")
> [@Stoid](#): > > I don’t want us to get too lost, Mr. Zimmerman, so I’m restating my map-related questions to help you focus when you have an opportunity to examine the map so you can answer the following questions. Please, as much as you are able, indicate the time periods for each event or period between. Just your best approximation, of course. > [ul] > [li] What were you doing when you first saw Trayvon, the point at which you observed him and he sruck you as suspicious?[/li][li] If you were traveling in your truck, which direction were you facing, where were you, and where was Trayvon?[/li][li] At that time, when you first observed Trayvon, did you continue moving, did you stop, did you park, did you change direction?[/li][li] How long after you first observed Trayvon did you call the police, and where were you when you did so? If you have not already indicated and described it, please explain how your position changed relative to the start, and how Trayvon’s changed, if it did.[/li][li] Where was Trayvon when you told the dispatcher he was coming towards you?[/li][li] Where was Trayvon when you told the dispatcher he was running, and where did he run to that you lost sight of him?[/li][li] Where did you go at that point, when you lost sight of him? I assume you went somewhere, changed your position in some way because you lost track of where you were.[/li][/ul] How would anyone actually know that? People aren’t like Jeffy in the Family Circus, there’s no little lines of dashes following you around. I have been in complexes like those, and they can get very confusing, as everything is very similar. ---
**Author:** ![Airbeck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/airbeck/32/6574_2.png) [@Airbeck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airbeck)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2012, 12:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-stoid-the-prosecutor-cross-examines-bricker-george-zimmerman/619561/47 "2012-04-23T00:05:21Z")
well then wouldn’t “I don’t remember” be a valid response then? Are you saying that the questions should not be allowed to be asked? ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2012, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-stoid-the-prosecutor-cross-examines-bricker-george-zimmerman/619561/48 "2012-04-23T00:09:58Z")
FOr the record going forward, a reminder: > [@](#): > > Originally Posted by Bricker > I’ll take that challenge. We can **start a new thread, ignore anyone else who tries to step in and derail it** , and you pose questions to me as though I were Zimmerman, and I 'll answer them based on my understanding of the evidence and fill in the blanks with a scenario I create. We’re not going to use this thread to debate or extensively discuss the questions and answers, you can do that in the speculation thread. We are playing this out to see if Zimmerman’s story can be made to make sense or if the holes are too big to plug. So while I might want to respond to some people commenting or otherwise questioning things, I’m mostly not gonna and I don’t think Bricker plans to, either. I hope not, anyway. So it would be nice if you actually refrained from doing it in this thread to begin with, but just letting you know in any case. Just like a real trial, ya gotta watch how it all plays out… ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2012, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-stoid-the-prosecutor-cross-examines-bricker-george-zimmerman/619561/49 "2012-04-23T00:11:37Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > Can I be the bailiff? I already have the uniform and the sassy one-liners. I’m down with it! Bailiff, remove that man! ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2012, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-stoid-the-prosecutor-cross-examines-bricker-george-zimmerman/619561/50 "2012-04-23T00:55:42Z")
> [@Stoid](#): > > Was there any reason you thought he might be reaching for such a weapon, if he had one? Had anything happened, or were you just generally concerned that someone with a weapon would automatically be inclined to reach for it randomly? What I mean to say is that you appear to be telling us that the proximity between his hand and waistband immediately suggested to you that he had a weapon, and I’m trying to understand why, even if he had one, you would think he was reaching for it? > > If indeed that was the thought process you had, forgive me if I’m assuming too much and please feel free to clarify if there’s anything I’ve misunderstood. Since my original thought was that he was casing the neighborhood, his gesture towards his waist made me think of a weapon. That’s all. It was just my thought, that burglars might carry weapons. ---
**Author:** ![Joey\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2012, 2:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-stoid-the-prosecutor-cross-examines-bricker-george-zimmerman/619561/51 "2012-04-23T02:00:13Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > Can I be the bailiff? I already have the uniform and the sassy one-liners. Only if we can shave your head and call you Bull. ---
**Author:** ![newme](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/e0b2c6/32.png) [@newme](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/newme)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2012, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-stoid-the-prosecutor-cross-examines-bricker-george-zimmerman/619561/52 "2012-04-23T02:17:44Z")
> [@Stoid](#): > > Also, since you mention that you were looking at his hands, which were near his waistband, did you notice him carrying a 7-11 bag, or holding a bottle of iced tea in one or the other of his hands? If you did notice that one or the other of his hands was occupied carrying or holding the items we know he had just purchased from the 7-11, iced tea and a packet of Skittles candy, does your statment that his his hands were near his waistband mean that he was holding these items near his waist, that only one hand was near his waistband, or something else? I’m filing an amicus curiae brief. FWIW the Martin family attorney states police found the skittles and tea in Martin’s pockets. [http://racetothestoneage.tumblr.com/post/18961787419/misterdelfuego-family-of-florida-boy-killed-by](http://racetothestoneage.tumblr.com/post/18961787419/misterdelfuego-family-of-florida-boy-killed-by) > [@](#): > > “What do the police find in his pocket? Skittles,” Crump said. “A can of Arizona ice tea in his jacket pocket and Skittles in his front pocket for his brother Chad.” ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2012, 2:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-stoid-the-prosecutor-cross-examines-bricker-george-zimmerman/619561/53 "2012-04-23T02:25:30Z")
“Mr. Zimmerman, if there was a button on the desk in front of you, and you could kill all the little thug black kids who’ve humiliated you through the years just by pushing the button, would you push that button?” WOULD YOU?? ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2012, 2:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-stoid-the-prosecutor-cross-examines-bricker-george-zimmerman/619561/54 "2012-04-23T02:43:07Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Since my original thought was that he was casing the neighborhood, his gesture towards his waist made me think of a weapon. That’s all. It was just my thought, that burglars might carry weapons. So according to your testimony, you found Trayvon suspicious and you feared he might be a burglar casing the neighborhood. You came to this fear or belief based on the following things: [ul] [li]He was walking slowly, which you found odd because of the rain and it also made you think he might be on drugs[/li][li]He was looking at houses in a manner that suggested to you that he was trying to see if people were home, the way a burglar would do.[/li][/ul] I would be interested to know if you can describe for us the particulars of the way someone looks at house that, for you, distinguishes it as someone who is casing a house in hopes of targeting it for burglary from the way anyone else might look at houses from simple curiosity. Since these are the only things that led you to find Trayvon suspicious, can we safely assume that if the person you saw walking slowly in the rain and looking at houses had been a middle-aged white woman, you would have suspected her of being a burglar as well? Or a 20-something Asian man? Or a mid-30’s white man in a suit and tie? And that you would have called the police to report the person? ---
**Author:** ![Kimmy\_Gibbler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Kimmy\_Gibbler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimmy_Gibbler)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2012, 3:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-stoid-the-prosecutor-cross-examines-bricker-george-zimmerman/619561/55 "2012-04-23T03:51:37Z")
> [@Stoid](#): > > Since these are the only things that led you to find Trayvon suspicious, can we safely assume that if the person you saw walking slowly in the rain and looking at houses had been a middle-aged white woman, you would have suspected her of being a burglar as well? Or a 20-something Asian man? Or a mid-30’s white man in a suit and tie? And that you would have called the police to report the person? Objection: speculative, badgering, _and_ counsel has ceased to ask a question and has instead launched into an entirely inappropriate commentary on the witness’s imagined prejudices. ---
**Author:** ![Kimmy\_Gibbler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Kimmy\_Gibbler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimmy_Gibbler)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2012, 4:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-stoid-the-prosecutor-cross-examines-bricker-george-zimmerman/619561/56 "2012-04-23T04:17:58Z")
Not to mention, it’s a pretty dumb question to ask, since Bricker-qua-Zimmerman needs only answer “yes, I would have likewise suspected them” (not that defense counsel or a judge would sustain the question, and a judge might even supress it sua sponte even if no defense objection were forthcoming). Because it is a collateral issue, no extrinsic evidence could be introduced to attempt to impeach Zimmerman. That is, the jury would be left with your question and Zimmerman’s claim of equal opportunity suspiciousness. ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2012, 4:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-stoid-the-prosecutor-cross-examines-bricker-george-zimmerman/619561/57 "2012-04-23T04:31:45Z")
> [@Kimmy\_Gibbler](#): > > Objection: speculative, badgering, _and_ counsel has ceased to ask a question and has instead launched into an entirely inappropriate commentary on the witness’s imagined prejudices. Kimmy, can you please refrain from playing lawyer? Bricker and I agreed to do this thread with each other, and I’d really appreciate it if you would just leave it to Bricker to be his defense attorney. Please. Not least because the point is not really to play lawyer so much as it is to see if Bricker can make Zimmerman’s story work. Thank you. ---
**Author:** ![Kimmy\_Gibbler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Kimmy\_Gibbler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimmy_Gibbler)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2012, 4:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-stoid-the-prosecutor-cross-examines-bricker-george-zimmerman/619561/58 "2012-04-23T04:40:28Z")
> [@Stoid](#): > > Kimmy, can you please refrain from playing lawyer? Bricker and I agreed to do this thread with each other, and I’d really appreciate it if you would just leave it to Bricker to be his defense attorney. Please. Not least because the point is not really to play lawyer so much as it is to see if Bricker can make Zimmerman’s story work. > > Thank you. Sorry, no. This is a message board, not the Salon du Stoid. Get a blog if you want to conduct your intellectual experiments (particularly if it is for public consumption but not for public comment). Six “My Pretty Jesuses” was enough. Thanks. ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2012, 5:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-stoid-the-prosecutor-cross-examines-bricker-george-zimmerman/619561/59 "2012-04-23T05:58:30Z")
> [@Kimmy\_Gibbler](#): > > This is a message board With threads on specific topics, and rules about what constitutes mannerly participation, what constitutes threadshitting, what constitutes being a jerk, etc. Per **Bricker** ’s very fun suggestion based on my challenge, _this_ thread is _specifically_: > [@](#): > > We can start a new thread, ignore anyone else who tries **to step in and derail it** , and **you** pose questions to me as though I were Zimmerman, and **I 'll answer them based on my understanding of the evidence and fill in the blanks with a scenario I create.** This is not the “Everyone come in an pretend you’re the defense!” thread, so in what way are you contributing to the topic, the purpose, and the spirit of the thread by deliberately inserting yourself in a _manner directly in opposition to the OP_ and to my polite request that you, along with everyone else, respect what Bricker and I are doing? Everyone else is managing to play along nicely, enjoying it for what it is, why can’t you? ---
**Author:** ![PlainJain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/5daacb/32.png) [@PlainJain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PlainJain)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2012, 6:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-stoid-the-prosecutor-cross-examines-bricker-george-zimmerman/619561/60 "2012-04-23T06:23:33Z")
You’re not doing a very good job of following **Bricke** r’s suggestion of ignoring anyone else who tries to step in and derail it either. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-stoid-the-prosecutor-cross-examines-bricker-george-zimmerman/619561.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-stoid-the-prosecutor-cross-examines-bricker-george-zimmerman/619561.md?page=4)