# In which Stoid (The Prosecutor) Cross-examines Bricker (George Zimmerman) **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [April 22, 2012, 5:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-stoid-the-prosecutor-cross-examines-bricker-george-zimmerman/619561 "2012-04-22T05:35:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2012, 5:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-stoid-the-prosecutor-cross-examines-bricker-george-zimmerman/619561/121 "2012-04-24T05:14:04Z")
Please refer to [=“ht tp : //ret [roraunch.com/mockzim/zim1.jpg](http://roraunch.com/mockzim/zim1.jpg)”]this map which is marked to match your testimonyand tell me if it is accurate or if there is anything you’d like to change: > [@Bricker](#): > > [ul] > [li]A) when I first saw the person I now know was Treyvon Martin. Like I said, he was walking along the street, away from your purple circle on the map towards the #2 area on the map, [/li]. > [li]B) I had just turned right from Oregon Ave [/li]. > [li]C) and was on what I now know was Twin Trees, passing perpendicular to an imaginary line drawn between points 1 and 2 on your map. [/li]. > [li]D) **I stopped** briefly after [/li]. > [li]E) **I passed him** as I made the call so he was actually coming towards me. [/li]. > [li]F) Then \*\*he passed me \*\*and I began to follow him in my truck, passing along the yellow arrow on your map. [/li]. > [li]G) Then he started running, [/li]. > [li]H) and I followed him, and he kept going straight even though the street curves, basically cutting between two buildings. [/li]. > [li]I) (when Trayvon began running) I was in the green circle, and he was running towards blue oval 4.[/li]. > [li]J) First I followed him in the truck, then I got out of the truck to check the sign, and I did that at #3 circle on the map.[/li][/ul] ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2012, 5:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-stoid-the-prosecutor-cross-examines-bricker-george-zimmerman/619561/122 "2012-04-24T05:22:07Z")
> [@Stoid](#): > > Actully I don’t, I’m just being thorough in probing all the aspects that people are talking about. > [@brazil84](#): > > If you say so, but it strikes me as an odd coincidence that your badgering was focused on the one of the main issues in this country which the Left obsesses over – race. Why is it an “odd coincidence” that I was probing/badgering regarding an aspect people are talking about/one of the main issues which the left obsesses over? People are talking about it. Whether those people are left or right is immaterial. It’s an area that people are talking about. Or are you making a suggestion that because I’m liberal, I’m obsessed with race, and therefore this statement: > [@](#): > > I’m on record already in several places with my genuine belief that while he absolutely did do some profiling, it’s ridiculous to think otherwise, I dont’ think that’s a big deal or an indication that he’s some racist fuckwad out to kill black kids. I think he’s an idiot who shouldn’t play with guns. which I made in the same post, is false? I hope not… ---
**Author:** ![brazil84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8491ac/32.png) [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2012, 9:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-stoid-the-prosecutor-cross-examines-bricker-george-zimmerman/619561/123 "2012-04-24T09:20:14Z")
> [@Airbeck](#): > > You insulted my intelligence and I should apologize to you? wow. What exactly is the insult? That I pointed out that you misstated my position? And do you deny misstating my position? > [@](#): > > I said that it was in the affidavit, therefore why wouldn’t it be asked about. > > What is unreasonable about that? It’s not a question of reasonableness. It’s a question of what your position is. Once we nail down your position, we can discuss whether it is reasonable. Earlier you said this: > [@](#): > > Why wouldn’t Stoid try to establish a key part of the case? What exactly were you referring to with the phrase “a key part of the case”? ---
**Author:** ![brazil84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8491ac/32.png) [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2012, 11:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-stoid-the-prosecutor-cross-examines-bricker-george-zimmerman/619561/124 "2012-04-24T11:44:32Z")
> [@Stoid](#): > > Why is it an “odd coincidence” that I was probing/badgering regarding an aspect people are talking about/one of the main issues which the left obsesses over? There are a lot of issues in the case you could choose to obsess over. For example: Who was screaming for help; why Zimmerman felt justified in using deadly force; who threw the first punch; whether Zimmerman decided to follow Martin and why; and so on. (If I were cross examining Zimmerman, I would focus on why he decided to exit his vehicle. This seems to me to be the weakest point in his story at this point. But I am thinking about this case in terms of facts and logic – not emotion. For people who think in terms of emotion, the salient issues differ.) Anyway, of all the issues you could have chosen to obsess over, you chose to obsess over race. That’s quite a coincidence. > [@](#): > > Or are you making a suggestion that because I’m liberal, I’m obsessed with race, and therefore this statement: > > which I made in the same post, is false? I wasn’t exactly making that suggestion, but I will make it now. I’m skeptical of your claim that the race issue in this case is not a big deal to you. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2012, 12:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-stoid-the-prosecutor-cross-examines-bricker-george-zimmerman/619561/125 "2012-04-24T12:27:50Z")
> [@Stoid](#): > > Please refer to [this map](http://retroraunch.com/mockzim/zim1.jpg) which is marked to match your testimonyand tell me if it is accurate or if there is anything you’d like to change: Hold on a second. I hope **bricker** is not doing any of this from work. You are using your porn site for uploading your map? WTF? ---
**Author:** ![Crotalus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crotalus/32/41_2.png) [@Crotalus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crotalus)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2012, 1:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-stoid-the-prosecutor-cross-examines-bricker-george-zimmerman/619561/126 "2012-04-24T13:01:14Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > Hold on a second. I hope **bricker** is not doing any of this from work. You are using your porn site for uploading your map? WTF? That’s amazing. I’m glad I didn’t click on the map from my work computer. Geez. ---
**Author:** ![Airbeck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/airbeck/32/6574_2.png) [@Airbeck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airbeck)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2012, 1:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-stoid-the-prosecutor-cross-examines-bricker-george-zimmerman/619561/127 "2012-04-24T13:09:37Z")
> [@brazil84](#): > > What exactly is the insult? That I pointed out that you misstated my position? If you don’t understand how insulting your tone was in that post, then I don’t know what I can do to illustrate it to you. Maybe that’s just always how you talk to people, I don’t know. I honestly don’t care that you insulted me, but its pretty ballsy to demand that I apologize to you for anything. You were originally expressing incredulity about why Stoid was asking questions related to the profiling part of the affidavit. I simply wanted to know why you were so surprised that she was asking questions about something listed in the affidavit. In fact, iirc, one of the first thing listed in the statement about what the state claims Zimmerman did that night. If you don’t understand why questions would be asked about something listed in the affidavit, then I don’t see the point of continuing this conversation. Besides, I hear a gavel being slammed against a desk and someone shouting “Order! Order in the court I say!”. I don’t really want to get hauled away by the bailiff because of this ridiculous tangent. ---
**Author:** ![brazil84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8491ac/32.png) [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2012, 1:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-stoid-the-prosecutor-cross-examines-bricker-george-zimmerman/619561/128 "2012-04-24T13:20:15Z")
> [@Airbeck](#): > > If you don’t understand how insulting your tone was in that post, then I don’t know what I can do to illustrate it to you. Suit yourself. It doesn’t change the fact that you misstated my position. I suspect that’s the source of your feelings of having been insulted. > [@](#): > > pretty ballsy to demand that I apologize to you for anything. :shrug: You misstated my position. And you don’t seem to deny it. > [@](#): > > If you don’t understand why questions would be asked about something listed in the affidavit, then I don’t see the point of continuing this conversation. Again you are misstating my position. I did not state that I didn’t understand, I simply was interested in the fact that she was obsessed about one issue. And you yourself basically admitted that it was a “key issue.” (ETA: in your view, of course) ---
**Author:** ![Airbeck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/airbeck/32/6574_2.png) [@Airbeck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airbeck)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2012, 1:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-stoid-the-prosecutor-cross-examines-bricker-george-zimmerman/619561/129 "2012-04-24T13:30:59Z")
I don’t want to further derail this thread with you. You know exactly what my original point was. There’s nothing obsessive about asking questions related to something stated in the affidavit. You know that the state claims he profiled Martin. You also know that chronologically the profiling was the first thing that was claimed to have happened in the timeline since that happened before he even got out of his truck. Why wouldn’t that be one of the first things asked about since its one of the first things that allegedly happened? Should she ask about the gunshot first then? ---
**Author:** ![brazil84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8491ac/32.png) [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2012, 1:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-stoid-the-prosecutor-cross-examines-bricker-george-zimmerman/619561/130 "2012-04-24T13:38:09Z")
> [@Airbeck](#): > > I don’t want to further derail this thread with you. You know exactly what my original point was. There’s nothing obsessive about asking questions related to something stated in the affidavit. I disagree. If somebody chooses one issue out of many and badgers incessantly on that one issue, it’s obsessive. Note also that the affidavit says nothing about Zimmerman being suspicious of Martin because of Martin’s race. And yet **Stoid** decided to badger obsessively on this one issue. An issue which you yourself claim to be a “key issue.” An issue which the Left in general just so happens to be obsessed with. ---
**Author:** ![VarlosZ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/d78d45/32.png) [@VarlosZ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VarlosZ)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2012, 1:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-stoid-the-prosecutor-cross-examines-bricker-george-zimmerman/619561/131 "2012-04-24T13:56:24Z")
> [@Kimmy Gibbler {as Zimmerman}](#): > > Yes, I was armed. But I wanted to avoid the necessity of shooting if at all possible. So I called for help thinking that it would bring somebody by or at least startle Trayvon off. Unfortunately, that didn’t happen. He was on top of me and he was choking me by this point; I was worried if I hesitated any further, I might not survive this encounter. So, I pulled my gun out and shot. Wouldn’t it make more sense (from a strategic point of view, and possibly also in fact) if Zimmerman claimed that he screamed for help, and eventually shot Travon, because Martin was going for his gun and he (Zimmerman) therefore had very good reason to fear for his life? This is sort of why I assume Zimmerman will (should?) get off without too much trouble. He was carrying the gun legally, and while it’s fair to say that Zimmerman was \*ultimately \*the instigator or aggressor because he was the one doing the following, in terms of the immediate physical altercation that led to the shooting, it’s totally plausible that Martin instigated _that_ by shoving and/or punching Zimmerman (self-defense against someone stalking him from his point of view, but an assault by a suspicious teen from Zimmerman’s). At that point, all Zimmerman needs to say is that Martin saw his gun and went for it, or possibly even that he pulled out his own gun to scare off Martin (but he went for it). Okay, I don’t want you in my neighborhood, but Not Guilty. ---
**Author:** ![Airbeck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/airbeck/32/6574_2.png) [@Airbeck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airbeck)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2012, 1:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-stoid-the-prosecutor-cross-examines-bricker-george-zimmerman/619561/132 "2012-04-24T13:57:04Z")
> [@brazil84](#): > > I disagree. If somebody chooses one issue out of many and badgers incessantly on that one issue, it’s obsessive. Can you really say that though about the very first issue asked about, and which happens to also be the very first issue chronologically on the timeline in the affidavit? If she is equally persistent about every issue in the affidavit, and does so one by one chronologically, would you then say she was obsessed about everything at the end of the examination? ---
**Author:** ![brazil84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8491ac/32.png) [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2012, 2:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-stoid-the-prosecutor-cross-examines-bricker-george-zimmerman/619561/133 "2012-04-24T14:04:03Z")
> [@Airbeck](#): > > Can you really say that though about the very first issue asked about, and which happens to also be the very first issue chronologically on the timeline in the affidavit? Sure. Look, do you agree that the affidavit says nothing about Zimmerman being suspicious of Martin because of Martin’s race? And please answer my other question: What exactly were you referring to with the phrase “a key part of the case”? > [@](#): > > If she is equally persistent about every issue in the affidavit, and does so one by one chronologically, would you then say she was obsessed about everything at the end of the examination? Nope. ---
**Author:** ![Airbeck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/airbeck/32/6574_2.png) [@Airbeck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airbeck)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2012, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-stoid-the-prosecutor-cross-examines-bricker-george-zimmerman/619561/134 "2012-04-24T14:10:53Z")
> [@brazil84](#): > > Sure. > > Look, do you agree that the affidavit says nothing about Zimmerman being suspicious of Martin because of Martin’s race? What do you think profiling is? What is your definition of profiling? > [@brazil84](#): > > And please answer my other question: > > What exactly were you referring to with the phrase “a key part of the case”? Speaking of obsessing over something … I meant something that the prosecution would be asking about since its in the affidavit. In the paragraph about the events of the night, profiling is mentioned and was one of the first things mentioned. That’s what I meant. Can you let it go now? My choice of phrase doesn’t have the weight that you are assigning to it, so stop trying to hang it around my neck. ---
**Author:** ![brazil84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8491ac/32.png) [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2012, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-stoid-the-prosecutor-cross-examines-bricker-george-zimmerman/619561/135 "2012-04-24T14:17:24Z")
> [@Airbeck](#): > > What do you think profiling is? What is your definition of profiling? Making a guess about someone’s likelihood to engage in specified conduct based on external or superficial information about the person, or based on other proxies. Now please answer my question. It’s a simple yes or no question. > [@](#): > > I meant something that the prosecution would be asking about since its in the affidavit. . So in your view, everything mentioned in the affidavit is a “key part of the case”? ---
**Author:** ![Airbeck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/airbeck/32/6574_2.png) [@Airbeck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airbeck)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2012, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-stoid-the-prosecutor-cross-examines-bricker-george-zimmerman/619561/136 "2012-04-24T14:30:30Z")
> [@brazil84](#): > > Making a guess about someone’s likelihood to engage in specified conduct based on external or superficial information about the person, or based on other proxies. > > Now please answer my question. It’s a simple yes or no question. So what external and superficial things did Zimmerman judge Martin on? Would appearance be one of these things? Why is what I think so important to you? The answer is I don’t know what was in Zimmerman’s mind and heart when he decided Martin was up to no good and that the “asshole” needed to not get away. I don’t know, and that is what the trial and these questions are for, to try to find out. Or we can just assume everything like you are and forgo the trial entirely I guess. > [@brazil84](#): > > So in your view, everything mentioned in the affidavit is a “key part of the case”? Everything in the affidavit will be asked about at trial correct? And please stop obsessing over my choice of words like 100 posts ago. ---
**Author:** ![GrandWino](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grandwino/32/67_2.png) [@GrandWino](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GrandWino)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2012, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-stoid-the-prosecutor-cross-examines-bricker-george-zimmerman/619561/137 "2012-04-24T14:41:53Z")
Get a room you two. ---
**Author:** ![brazil84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8491ac/32.png) [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2012, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-stoid-the-prosecutor-cross-examines-bricker-george-zimmerman/619561/138 "2012-04-24T14:48:22Z")
> [@Airbeck](#): > > So what external and superficial things did Zimmerman judge Martin on? Would appearance be one of these things? Please answer my questions first. Your choice. > [@](#): > > Or we can just assume everything like you are and forgo the trial entirely I guess. Please show me where I have done so. Please quote me. Failing that, please admit I did not such thing and apologize. > [@](#): > > Everything in the affidavit will be asked about at trial correct? I don’t know. Now please answer my question. Your choice. ---
**Author:** ![Bambro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/df705f/32.png) [@Bambro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bambro)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2012, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-stoid-the-prosecutor-cross-examines-bricker-george-zimmerman/619561/139 "2012-04-24T14:49:39Z")
I didn’t think it was possible, but you two have actually made this thread MORE boring. ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2012, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-stoid-the-prosecutor-cross-examines-bricker-george-zimmerman/619561/140 "2012-04-24T14:54:40Z")
> [@brazil84](#): > > Anyway, of all the issues you could have chosen to obsess over, you chose to obsess over race. That’s quite a coincidence. > > I wasn’t exactly making that suggestion, but I will make it now. I’m skeptical of your claim that the race issue in this case is not a big deal to you. The only one obsessing over race is you: I’ve barely gotten started, and I have barely mentioned it. If I found the race issue to be a meaningful one I’d have no reason to deny it, and if you believe otherwise you should explain it, because it doesn’t make any sense to me. I’ve written a lot on the subject and almost nothing about the race issue, except to say that I don’t think it’s all that important, and in fact it isn’t: Zimmerman profiled Martin on the basis of Martin being a young black man. So? What does that change? Absolutely nothing. The reason I find Zimmermans issue of “suspicion” important is not because he focused on Martin, a black person, but because his idea of what constitutes “Suspicious” is so thin in every way it makes him paranoid and irresponsible in his behavior. As evidenced by Martin’s death. Research has shown that people who have guns are more likely to believe that other people have guns. This contributes to problems arising simply because of the presence of a gun. I could go on and I will, at a later time. > [@Airbeck](#): > > You also know that chronologically the profiling was the first thing that was claimed to have happened in the timeline since that happened before he even got out of his truck. Why wouldn’t that be one of the first things asked about since its one of the first things that allegedly happened? Should she ask about the gunshot first then? This. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-stoid-the-prosecutor-cross-examines-bricker-george-zimmerman/619561.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-stoid-the-prosecutor-cross-examines-bricker-george-zimmerman/619561.md?page=8)