# In Which Thea and I Discuss "Karma" **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 31, 2003, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-thea-and-i-discuss-karma/210719 "2003-10-31T20:35:45Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Eve](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Eve](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eve)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2003, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-thea-and-i-discuss-karma/210719/1 "2003-10-31T20:35:45Z")
Some of you know my cute little coworker Thea. I was saying I wished I believed in karma, because I have done some really really good things this year that I don’t want to mention here or I will ruin my reputation as a total bitch. “Oh, I totally believe in karma,” says Thea. “That’s why good things keep happening to me.” “Thea, the universe does not give a fuck about you and I,” I said. “Every day, good people get hit by trucks and evil bastards die happily in their beds at the age of 95.” “Nooo,” says Thea, “maybe they were good in a previous life or something.” “If you’re going to go all Squirrely MacLaine on me, I’m going to go have some coffee.” So what is it with this “karma” nonsense? I constantly hear people talking about it, but does anyone actually, seriously _believe_ in it? ---
**Author:** ![Kalhoun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3bc359/32.png) [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2003, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-thea-and-i-discuss-karma/210719/2 "2003-10-31T20:58:51Z")
It’s total bullshit, that’s what it is. Mr. Kalhoun and I jokingly call it “good caramels.” Like, “Honey, I helped that lady across the street. I hope I get some good caramels out of the deal.” If you believe in Karma, you have to believe in supernatural forces (who have notebooks and keep track of stuff). I suppose it makes the Theas of the world a little more comfy, but it’s still total bullshit in my book. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2003, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-thea-and-i-discuss-karma/210719/3 "2003-10-31T21:03:10Z")
Well, it’s quite likely that if you do good things for other people, they will remember and do good things for you in return. As for whether this is a Cosmic force of Karma, it’s quite simple. You have an hypothesis. Set up an experiment and see if it can be verified. If not, it’s junk. It’s no more nonsensical, though, than the literal interpretation of the Genesis story in the Bible. I don’t remember the exact figures, but a large portion of the US population believes that story. ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2003, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-thea-and-i-discuss-karma/210719/4 "2003-10-31T21:03:48Z")
Define Karma IIRC the clasic definition involves activities from your past lives. ---
**Author:** ![Eve](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Eve](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eve)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2003, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-thea-and-i-discuss-karma/210719/5 "2003-10-31T21:13:41Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by SimonX \* > \*\*Define Karma \*\* I have no idea. The dictionary says, “The force generated by a person’s action held in Hinduism and Buddhism to perpetuate transmigration and in its ethical consequences to determine the nature of the person’s next existence.” But I think in the addled hippie minds of most karma believers, it just boils down to “if you do good things, good thingsa will happen to you, and if you do bad things, bad things will happen to you.” ---
**Author:** ![Kalhoun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3bc359/32.png) [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2003, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-thea-and-i-discuss-karma/210719/6 "2003-10-31T21:16:50Z")
I agree with John Mace, that good deeds usually beget good deeds. But I don’t think there’s a cosmic score-keeper. And it doesn’t account for all the evil shit that happens to good people (and vice versa). We’re all just along for the ride. ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2003, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-thea-and-i-discuss-karma/210719/7 "2003-10-31T21:18:02Z")
w/o the past lives bit, it’s harder to justify bad things happenning to infants and such. Maybe there’s something else similar but different than karma? ---
**Author:** ![Eve](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Eve](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eve)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2003, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-thea-and-i-discuss-karma/210719/8 "2003-10-31T21:21:42Z")
I won’t dismiss the dictionary definition of “karma,” as I know next to nothing about Hinduism and Buddhism and I know better than to Pit someone’s religious beliefs. But what about the seemingly prevalent “hippie karma” that Thea seems to ascribe to? ---
**Author:** ![Ghanima](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Ghanima](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ghanima)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2003, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-thea-and-i-discuss-karma/210719/9 "2003-10-31T21:30:28Z")
I totally believe in it dude, when it works. Otherwise I don’t. Example #1: Jerk that grew marijuana in our apartmenthouse basement, profited greatly and wouldn’t share (people living there had to pay full price!), got our house broken into by thugs with guns, and didn’t pay rent. Then he lost ALL of his money on a bikini calendar scam! AHAHAHA KARMA works! Every time I think of him buying drinks for the “potential models” that ripped him off, I get a warm fuzzy feeling. Example #2: The Bush family. Clearly there is no basis for the idea of karma, or they would have long since been out of the political picture. ---
**Author:** ![robertliguori](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/46a35a/32.png) [@robertliguori](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robertliguori)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2003, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-thea-and-i-discuss-karma/210719/10 "2003-10-31T21:35:49Z")
In one sense, what we recognise as good coincides with long-term survival strategy. I.E.: Backstabbing everyone at the first oppertunity simply makes you end up alone and friendless when you break your leg and need food. This is simply a correlation, however. One major problem with the theory is that karma requires at least one massively complex act of moral unfairness (the arbitrary making of the universe). If you need a theory to enforce justice, you can’t do it in our universe, because it is patently unjust, less what we enforce on it. ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2003, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-thea-and-i-discuss-karma/210719/11 "2003-10-31T21:37:53Z")
To _some extent_, I suppose that it’s true. Your actions have an impact on your enviroment, (people included in “enviroment”). Many things happen when we aren’t looking. For example, dope dealers who rip people off are the ones who get ratted out first. ---
**Author:** ![Eve](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Eve](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eve)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2003, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-thea-and-i-discuss-karma/210719/12 "2003-10-31T21:41:14Z")
But if “karma” works, wouldn’t it work for everyone? Otherwise it would be randomly insane and cruel. Which doesn’t explain why, say, a cute little toddler dies of leukemia at three, but Leni Riefenstahl lives a long, happy life. Either karma works for everyone or it works for no one. Right? ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2003, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-thea-and-i-discuss-karma/210719/13 "2003-10-31T21:42:57Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Eve \* > \*\*But if “karma” works, wouldn’t it work for everyone? Otherwise it would be randomly insane and cruel. Which doesn’t explain why, say, a cute little toddler dies of leukemia at three, but Leni Riefenstahl lives a long, happy life. Either karma works for everyone or it works for no one. Right? \*\* To _some extent_. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2003, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-thea-and-i-discuss-karma/210719/14 "2003-10-31T23:14:41Z")
Karma _could_ work… Everyone gets punished for their sins in their next life… Everyone gets rewarded for their good deeds… It would be kind of nice to think of the books always balancing… But since we don’t _remember_ our past lives, the appearance is that of random punishments and rewards. Yeah, maybe the innocent little baby that dies of some hellish birth defect is the reincarnation of Joe Stalin, while someone who lives a really lucky life is the reincarnation of Saint Augustine… But we don’t have any way to know that… When you’re training a puppy, you always punish him _immediately_ when he does something wrong. You don’t wait six weeks and then punish him; otherwise, there’s no chance he’ll ever learn to associate his behavior with the punishment. Karma is indistinguishable from random punishment. That isn’t necessarily a reason for it not to be true… But it’s a reason for me _not to like it,_ and thus…I don’t… Trinopus ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2003, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-thea-and-i-discuss-karma/210719/15 "2003-10-31T23:48:15Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Ghanima \* > \*\*Example #2: The Bush family. Clearly there is no basis for the idea of karma, or they would have long since been out of the political picture. \*\* Don’t give up. There’s still time for the lot of them to be trampled to death by pigs in tap shoes. And re the OP, it’s obviously just self-actualizing wish fulfillment. It’s “accept Jesus on your deathbed” in a slightly different scarf. ---
**Author:** ![gubernator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@gubernator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gubernator)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2003, 1:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-thea-and-i-discuss-karma/210719/16 "2003-11-01T01:08:05Z")
Karma. Sorta works. Some times. Ex: Grandfather fought in china against either the japs in WWII or the communists in the china civil war, or both, can’t remember which. One time he saved a wounded soldier from outside of his company/squad whatever, can’t remember what his rank was at the time, but it was definitely a leadership role. So anyway wounded, almost dead stranger soldier was saved (my grandfather’s decision), nourished back to health and whatnot when old grandpa’s own regiment was extremely low on supplies and wanted to just abandon the soldier. Soldier guy tagged along with grandpa’s gang after he recovered. One month after he was saved, the regiment was under heavy attack, the soldiers in the regiment were all cowering in their boats, trying to avoid being shot while trying to get away. Stranger soldier happened to have been sorta lying on top of grandpa, cause due to lack of spaces in the boat and whatnot, the soldiers were stuffed in the boats like tuna in a can. Shots were fired, and the soldier got hit and was killed, in the process shielding my grandpa from bullets that would’ve otherwise killed him. Maybe Karma could be bull after all, but the story is still damned neat. ---
**Author:** ![El\_Cid\_Viscoso](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/41988e/32.png) [@El\_Cid\_Viscoso](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Cid_Viscoso)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2003, 2:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-thea-and-i-discuss-karma/210719/17 "2003-11-01T02:13:23Z")
> [@](#): > > _by Eve_ > > …karma … I constantly hear people talking about it, but does anyone actually, seriously _believe_ in it? I know this is a thread intended to lure **elucidator** away from his _Parson’s Law_ on CD, with which he plans to disown **Weird With Words** , but I’ll chime in. Besides, he’s basking in the wonders of his **Milum** pit-post from last night. 🙂 When I die, I will without a doubt be cast back onto the Earth as another human, possibly smarter, with likely a crippling speech impediment. I believe I am here on this planet until I “get it right.” Each transgression in this lifetime not only ensures my reincarnation, but also threatens the likelihood of reincarnation as say, a Bostonian. 😉 Good deeds can make up for these transgressions, but they must be truly selfless deeds. All the shoes I’ve donated to Goodwill do not count. Instant karma? It was my childhood “boogeyman.” Nothing worse than de-pantsing your little brother only to find, several hours later and in the comforts of Home, that you’d split your shorts right down to your Y-briefs. ---
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2003, 10:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-thea-and-i-discuss-karma/210719/18 "2003-11-01T10:59:25Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Eve \* > \*\*I won’t dismiss the dictionary definition of “karma,” as I know next to nothing about Hinduism and Buddhism and I know better than to Pit someone’s religious beliefs. > > But what about the seemingly prevalent “hippie karma” that Thea seems to ascribe to? \*\* You will reap what you sow. What goes around comes around. Like attracks like, etc. are sayings that have been with us forever. Karma is debt if it is negative and knowledge if it is positive. It does work. It is real. We are not in a position to judge others actions in relation to the whole, nor are they to judge us. When we pass into the spirit world we will review our deeds and make corrections. These corrections may be painful (psychologically) if we have been hurtful to others. All wrongs will be corrected and all rights rewarded with growth. Nothing goes unnoticed. Notice that I did not say God will punish you. God punishes no one. You and only you will be the judge of your own deeds. In the spirit world one can see the truth of all things and know the precise extent of their interaction with others. In reality we are all one being, when we hurt others we hurt ourselves. When we help others, we help ourselves. This is the most common belief of Karma. Love ---
**Author:** ![ccwaterback](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/df705f/32.png) [@ccwaterback](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ccwaterback)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2003, 11:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-thea-and-i-discuss-karma/210719/19 "2003-11-01T11:47:11Z")
It’s just an internal gratification like other religious concepts. “I did good so God will repay me”, kinda thing. ---
**Author:** ![xejkh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/22d042/32.png) [@xejkh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/xejkh)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2003, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-thea-and-i-discuss-karma/210719/20 "2003-11-01T15:56:43Z")
> [@](#): > > It’s just an internal gratification like other religious concepts. “I did good so God will repay me”, kinda thing. > [@](#): > > But if “karma” works, wouldn’t it work for everyone? Otherwise it would be randomly insane and cruel. Which doesn’t explain why, say, a cute little toddler dies of leukemia at three, but Leni Riefenstahl lives a long, happy life. Either karma works for everyone or it works for no one. Right? I don’t know about Hinduism, but karma in the Buddhist sense works either way: you do good and it will benefit you; do bad and it will harm you. This suggests a conscious will behind that act: consciously dropping an anvil on a person and killing him is wrong and will bring forth unpleasant consequences; but dropping an anvil accidentally and killing him is not harmful karma. Karma can appear “insane and cruel” unless you look at existence from a different (here ie Buddhist) perspective: that when we die we are “reborn” into another plane (eg as humans, deities etc). A cute little toddler may die of leukemia at age 3 because of bad karma accumulated in his/her previous life; Riefenstahl leads a good life now perhaps of good karma, but there is no guarantee of what kind of life she will lead after rebirth. As for the toddler untimely death means that some of the bad karma is wiped out - this is almost a turn for the better in the future. In either case karma is not insane nor cruel; just a law in a universe that is different from what some of us may understand. This is of course a religious/philosophical argument. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-thea-and-i-discuss-karma/210719.md?page=2)