# In which TSS Pits prosecutors **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 5, 2010, 4:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-tss-pits-prosecutors/556088 "2010-10-05T04:51:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 10\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2010, 4:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-tss-pits-prosecutors/556088/1 "2010-10-05T04:51:32Z")
and in particular State Bar Prosecutors. > **[Law.com](https://www.law.com/?id=1202472897418&slreturn=20230723025405)** > > Law.com delivers news, insights and resources that allow legal professionals to anticipate opportunities, adapt to change, and prepare for future success. Less than 1 percent of prosecutors who commit misconduct in California are prosecuted. Duh. When the rate of prosecution is so low the incentive to avoid committing misconduct is very small indeed. 99+ percent of the prosecutors bar can safely rely on their own honor, or lack thereof, to keep the public safe from prosecutorial misconduct. With such a cozy relationship with the State Bar Court, is it any wonder our system is so corrupt. ---
**Author:** ![Laudenum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7993a0/32.png) [@Laudenum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Laudenum)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2010, 10:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-tss-pits-prosecutors/556088/2 "2010-10-05T10:25:13Z")
> [@Article cited above](#): > > **"[P]rosecutorial misconduct as indicated in the Innocence Project report does not always equate with attorney misconduct for disciplinary purposes,**" the association said. “The State Bar believes that it is disciplining criminal prosecutors where appropriate and where the misconduct was willful and can be establish by clear and convincing evidence.” It added that misconduct is a “serious issue” and that the bar association is looking into the assertions made by the Innocence Project. > > The report also found that in 282 of the cases, the courts did not decide whether a prosecutor’s actions were improper. Instead, they concluded that regardless of the alleged misconduct, the defendant received a fair trial. The Innocence Project reviewed only appellate court rulings and a few other cases. Seems that they may be comparing apples and oranges. ---
**Author:** ![Hamlet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hamlet/32/2818_2.png) [@Hamlet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamlet)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2010, 1:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-tss-pits-prosecutors/556088/3 "2010-10-05T13:15:34Z")
“The report included recommendations for reform. It called for district attorneys to adopt internal policies that do not tolerate misconduct. It also called for the state bar to increase disciplinary transparency.” I fully support these recommendations, and think that there should be more disciplinary actions taken against prosecutors who deliberately violate the ethics rules. That said, I take the Innocence Projects’ “statistics” worth a grain of salt. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2010, 1:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-tss-pits-prosecutors/556088/4 "2010-10-05T13:23:24Z")
From the report itself: > [@](#): > > The Misconduct Study’s findings as to the results in these 707 cases were as follows: In the vast majority—548 of the 707 cases—courts found misconduct but nevertheless upheld the convictions, ruling that the misconduct was harmless—that the defendants received fair trials notwithstanding the prosecutor’s conduct. Only in 159 of the 707 cases—about 20 percent—did the courts find that the misconduct was harmful; in these cases they either set aside the conviction or sentence, declared a mistrial or barred evidence. That’s a good clue as to the sweeping definition they’re using for “misconduct.” ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2010, 4:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-tss-pits-prosecutors/556088/5 "2010-10-06T04:23:40Z")
Yeah, well fuck all those misconducting prosecutors up the ass with a rusty chainsaw. They are all a bunch of little Nifongs. ---
**Author:** ![Camus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ba8739/32.png) [@Camus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Camus)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2010, 8:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-tss-pits-prosecutors/556088/6 "2010-10-06T08:47:53Z")
> [@The\_Second\_Stone](#): > > Yeah, well fuck all those misconducting prosecutors up the ass with a rusty chainsaw. They are all a bunch of little Nifongs. “Misconduct” can be defined as broad as a prosecutor’s unintentional slip of the tongue. During a stabbing case I conducted a few years ago, the trial judge ordered that the part of the Defendant’s videotaped confession which included the defendant talking about being from Mexico and having 3 fake IDs when arrested be precluded. This particular Defendant wasn’t charged with forgery, possession of a fraudulent documents, or illegally entering the US. During the trial itself, as I was potting up the Defendant’s confession after it was entered into evidence, I turned up the volume a few seconds too soon to the part when the Defendant said he was from Mexico (but turned it down before anything else could be heard). Technically, that accident might have been considered misconduct, but ultimately it was harmless since the victim was also from Mexico and testified to that, testified through a Spanish interpreter, and was heavily implied (over my objections) by the defense attorney to be in the US illegally himself. Not to mention the rest of the video was the Defendant admitting that he stabbed the victim with a butcher knife three times because he was pissed at him. So, before you damn the souls of all prosecutors to hell whose errors or misconduct may technically be considered harmless, have a little perspective. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2010, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-tss-pits-prosecutors/556088/7 "2010-10-06T17:56:18Z")
Oh yes, I’m sorry. I didn’t realize I was in the Pit and that I must put everything in perspective and not exaggerate and paint with an over broad brush. I take it all back. Fuck no. ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2010, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-tss-pits-prosecutors/556088/8 "2010-10-06T19:07:28Z")
Question for the OP: How many criminal cases have you defended? Hint: If the answer is zero, you don’t have a fucking clue what you’re talking about. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2010, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-tss-pits-prosecutors/556088/9 "2010-10-06T19:57:40Z")
I hate to go all Bricker on you, but the answer really depends on what you mean by “criminal cases” and “defended”. As for your evaluation, you are perhaps being a little hyperbolic? Even if I’ve just read about and/or attended a few trials, I would know more than “zero” for all non-Pit values of zero. I’m primarily a civil lawyer, and now that I think back on it, I have actuallly defended a number of misdemeanor cases, and one case in front of the State Bar Court and advised on a number of others. Prosecutors bring cases that are utter shit, and police lie through their teeth. My opinion of prosecutors is informed by a number of cases I’ve encountered over the years and a few I’ve read about, including Nifong and the Benjamin Fields case. While I am sure that there are honest prosecutors out there, it’s the 99 percent of the prosecutors that are giving the other 1 percent a bad name. That there is insufficient self-policing by fellow prosecutors is a large part of the problem. All those Illinois cases with wrongful death penalty convictions due to prosecutorial and police misconduct? Where are all the prosecutions of the prosecutors and police that faked and overstated evidence in capital cases? The ethics prosecutions? They don’t exist and never will because prosecutors won’t go after their own for conduct that is the worst possible. Until prosecutors start prosecuting their own for ethical and criminal lapses as fast and as relentlessly as they prosecute the innocent, Nifong and Fields will be the exception. And neither of these fuckers is in jail or facing jail or even indictment, despite the fact that they committed crimes. Oak, I’m going to throw back the challenge at you: until you can honestly say that you prosecute dirty prosecutors, you don’t know what the fuck you are talking about. ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2010, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-tss-pits-prosecutors/556088/10 "2010-10-06T21:51:35Z")
Well…I don’t do criminal at all anymore, and when I did it was strictly defense, but my experience is much different than yours, and likely involves more actual experience in criminal trials. You’re saying all prosecutors are unethical based on the actions of a few. You ought to know what a flimsy argument that is. That’s as nonsensical as the usual suspects around here that say all cops/conservatives/people that disagree with a political position are unethical, stupid, and otherwise unpleasant company.