In which we stew upon opposition to the death penalty...satisfying?

This is all wonderful, wring, but you’re not haranguing against the death penalty here - you’re going on about wrongful convictions (true, many of these cases involved legal technicalities rather than actual innocence). By your logic, we should never jail anyone for murder, since there’s a chance they didn’t do it and the “real killer” might be roaming around free.

It’s amazing that when I cite actual cases of released/escaped/pardoned murderers killing again, they’re derided with cries of “anecdotal”, “cheap shot” and the like. But anti-DPers apparently see nothing wrong with citing “anecdotal” cases that don’t even relate to the death penalty. Irony, anyone?

Jack still ignores the issue, no big surprise. He trots out a couple of examples of folks escaping from prison (usually not from maximum security), that they did bad things while out (newsflash bad people do bad things), and that’s his evidence that the very bad folks who are caught should be executed vs. life in prison since some people (who weren’t in maximum security at the time) escaped.

Note, these hypothetical folks (the people who might be killed if those on death row escaped - of course, so far, there’s been one very brief escape from a death row, zero deaths during the escape time), are apparently much more worthwhile of consideration than those who may have been executed for crimes they did not commit (even Sandra Day O’Connor acknowledges what he refuses to, that statistically, it’s very likely that we have indeed executed innocents).

And here I speak about yet another group of innocents: those who are murdered because the wrong person sat on death row (demonstrating the concept by showing a case where the police ignored the real killer, and convicted an innocent). So, those hypotheticals who might be killed if a d/p eligible person escaped from death row or similar secure settings, are much more worthy of consideration than the actual people who are killed because the state had the wrong person on death row (both the certain death of the wrongfully executed and those additional hypotheticals who may be vicitimized by the real killer who’s still on the loose). So, in jackland, one set of hypothetical innocent deaths must be avoided, even tho’ it means accepting a certain number of actual innocent deaths, and an additional unknown number of hypothetical innocent deaths as well.

Note, too, for the record, that in the linked case, the defendant confessed. Often that’s one of the things that death penalty advocates point to ‘but the guy said he did it!’

We like to think that we’d never, ever, falsely confess to a crime, and therefore no one else would, either. Of course, it still happens (in this case, in the case of Henry Lee Lucas, too for another example). We would hope that folks keep that in mind when hearing of ‘confessions’.

(and jack you’re statement of ‘by [your] logic’ was wrong, but that’s no surprise. My statement is that when you have convicted the wrong person -(and since we’ve released some 80+ prisoners from death row, seems likely that we’ve done it quite a bit more often than folks escape from maximum security prisons), you’ve allowed the ‘real’ killer to remain free to kill again. Says nothing remotely close to your rewording. Your suppostion includes that those 80 some folks who shouldn’t have been on death row are expendable since ‘somebody might’ escape from such a secure setting and during their (most likely brief) time out kill again. Of course, since in the cases where the wrong person was convicted, the real killer is still on the loose and no one’s looking for them (as compared to the escaped convict), those victims are also acceptable, since to question the validity of the death penalty process isn’t allowed.)

My opposition to the death penalty comes from my belief system about the sanctity of life…more so than a concern about the ineptness of our criminal justice system. In discussions that I have with friends about the dp, I don’t hesitate to trot out the typical stats (cost of executions vs cost of imprisonment), and concerns about executing innocence people.

And I take heart when people who might normally disagree with me on other social issues (George Will, for example) have a change of heart on the dp because of their distrust of governmental ability. But, when all is said and done…even IF there was a way to insure that all executions were of criminally guilty individuals, I would still oppose the death penalty. My position is often referred to as a Consistent Ethic or Seamless Garment

I think that this position IS a morally superior position (otherwise, why would I hold it? :slight_smile: ). I don’t think holding this position makes me a morally superior person.

Nope, I’ve cited numerous examples of repeat killings by murderers including but not limited to escapes, something that should not distract you from the overall issue. **

How true. Limiting the potential for “bad things” is what many, if not most supporters of the death penalty option are concerned with.**

O’Connor, in my a.m. newspaper, is quoted as saying that “the system may well be allowing some innocent defendants to be executed.” It’s a jump from that to “very likely that we have indeed executed innocents.” But hey, if the cause is righteous, why not bend a quote to your purpose.
It’s also interesting to see people (not necessarily you, wring) who until a day ago would have spat on Sandra O’Connor now worshiping her as a prophet. Causes make strange bedfellows.**

Um, wring, you’ve already acknowledged that the case of the “mentally retarded man” you cited was not a death penalty case. Speak to the issue at hand.**

You’ve brilliantly summed up your own anti-death penalty thesis. Once again, we’re knee-deep in irony.
Your latest argument here is just an extension of earlier ones - based on supposition, what-ifs and maybes. Real life doesn’t move you, so what hope do I have?