# In World War 2 how did the Germans and the Japanese ambassadors get to their posts ? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [May 22, 2015, 11:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-world-war-2-how-did-the-germans-and-the-japanese-ambassadors-get-to-their-posts/720577 "2015-05-22T11:03:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 9\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![davida03801](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b5e925/32.png) [@davida03801](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davida03801)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2015, 11:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-world-war-2-how-did-the-germans-and-the-japanese-ambassadors-get-to-their-posts/720577/1 "2015-05-22T11:03:17Z")
I watched an old episode of Battlefield Detectives (about the Battle of the Bulge) and it stated that Hitler told the Japanese Ambassador an outline of this campaign several months prior to the start of the battle. This got me to thinking. The entire world was at war and very few neutral countries, and very limited means to travel that distance. How is it the Germans and the Japanese ambassadors actually traveled and arrived to their posts in the other country ? ---
**Author:** ![Shakester](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shakester/32/437_2.png) [@Shakester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shakester)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2015, 12:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-world-war-2-how-did-the-germans-and-the-japanese-ambassadors-get-to-their-posts/720577/2 "2015-05-22T12:12:40Z")
They were already in place when the war began. ---
**Author:** ![Shakester](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shakester/32/437_2.png) [@Shakester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shakester)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2015, 12:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-world-war-2-how-did-the-germans-and-the-japanese-ambassadors-get-to-their-posts/720577/3 "2015-05-22T12:13:52Z")
More info… > **[Hiroshi Ōshima](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hiroshi_%C5%8Cshima)** > > Baron Hiroshi Ōshima (大島 浩, Ōshima Hiroshi, April 19, 1886 – June 6, 1975) was a Japanese general in the Imperial Japanese Army and diplomat. He served as the Japanese ambassador to Germany before and during World War II and was, unwittingly, a major source of communications intelligence for the Allies. His role was perhaps best summed up by General George C. Marshall, who identified Ōshima as "our main basis of information regarding Hitler's intentions in Europe". After World War II, he was conv... > **[Heinrich Georg Stahmer](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heinrich_Georg_Stahmer)** > > Heinrich Georg Stahmer (3 May 1892 in Hamburg, Germany – 13 June 1978 in Vaduz, Liechtenstein) was a German diplomat and economist by training who was in charge of German–Japanese relations at the German Foreign Ministry. He was an aide to Foreign Minister Joachim von Ribbentrop (1938–1940), special envoy to Japan and ambassador to the pro-Japanese Reorganized National Government of China in occupied Nanjing (1940–1943), before becoming German Ambassador to Japan (1943–1945). > A native of Hamburg... ---
**Author:** ![Malden\_Capell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/malden_capell/32/5274_2.png) [@Malden\_Capell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malden_Capell)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2015, 12:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-world-war-2-how-did-the-germans-and-the-japanese-ambassadors-get-to-their-posts/720577/4 "2015-05-22T12:31:13Z")
Communications could take place by wire, which would go through neutral countries and enjoy diplomatic immunity (is there immunity if a diplomat is travelling to a co-combatant country via the high seas? Like, is it a violation of international law for the Royal Navy to sink a submarine which an ambassador to Spain from Japan was on?) ---
**Author:** ![ftg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ftg/32/2801_2.png) [@ftg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ftg)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2015, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-world-war-2-how-did-the-germans-and-the-japanese-ambassadors-get-to-their-posts/720577/5 "2015-05-22T17:28:37Z")
In theory, a Japanese diplomatic courier could travel to Germany along a route such as: Japan to Vladivostok, across the Trans-Siberian railway to far nortwest Russia, then to Sweden, then to Germany. Note that even right up to Summer of 1945, Japanese diplomats routinely traveled to Moscow. The big issue would be how to hop from Russia to Sweden. By air over Nazi held territory or Finland (which was at war with the USSR most of the time)? By sea out of Murmansk- but what nationality ship and to where? And probably not safe at all. Maybe a southwest route would be better: To Turkey and then a lot of options to get to Germany from there. A German diplomatic courier would have a much harder time. Travel across Asia would be impossible: not thru Russia, India, etc. That leaves pretty much submarine. Some Germans war materials were shipped to Japan via that route, why not a person? At least one German u-boat ended up in Japan Navy in 1943 and at least 4 were ended up in Japanese hands around the East Indies when Germany fell. ---
**Author:** ![Donnerwetter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b2d939/32.png) [@Donnerwetter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Donnerwetter)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2015, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-world-war-2-how-did-the-germans-and-the-japanese-ambassadors-get-to-their-posts/720577/6 "2015-05-22T18:10:43Z")
The Japanese ambassador to Germany, Hiroshi Ōshima, travelled from Japan to Germany in February 1941 (i. e. before Japan entered the war against the Allies) and stayed there until the end of the war [1]. Eugen Ott, the German ambassador to Japan from 1940 to 1942 stayed in Asia after he was recalled from his post [2]. Ott already served as German military attaché in Japan prior to taking up the post as ambassador [2]. His successor, Heinrich Georg Stahmer [3], had already been stationed in Asia (in China as well as in Japan) before he took up the post as German ambassador to Japan. [1] [Hiroshi Ōshima - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hiroshi_%C5%8Cshima#Military_career) [2] [Eugen Ott (Generalmajor) – Wikipedia](http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eugen_Ott_(Generalmajor)#Milit.C3.A4rattach.C3.A9_und_Botschafter_in_Japan_.281933.E2.80.931942.29) [3] [Heinrich Georg Stahmer - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heinrich_Georg_Stahmer) ---
**Author:** ![Donnerwetter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b2d939/32.png) [@Donnerwetter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Donnerwetter)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2015, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-world-war-2-how-did-the-germans-and-the-japanese-ambassadors-get-to-their-posts/720577/7 "2015-05-22T18:25:32Z")
Also worth mentioning is the fate of the [German submarine U-234](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_submarine_U-234): > [@](#): > > Her first and only mission into enemy territory consisted of the attempted delivery of uranium oxide and German advanced weapons technology to the Empire of Japan. After learning of Germany’s unconditional surrender, the submarine’s crew surrendered to the United States on 14 May 1945. > […] > Passengers > U-234 was carrying twelve passengers, including a German general, four German naval officers, civilian engineers and scientists and two Japanese naval officers. The German personnel included General Ulrich Kessler of the Luftwaffe, who was to take over Luftwaffe liaison duties in Tokyo; Kai Nieschling, a Naval Fleet Judge Advocate who was to rid the German diplomatic corps in Japan of the remnants of the Richard Sorge spy ring; Dr. Heinz Schlicke, a specialist in radar, infra-red, and countermeasures and director of the Naval Test Fields in Kiel (later recruited by the USA in Operation Paperclip); and August Bringewalde, who was in charge of Me 262 production at Messerschmitt. > > The Japanese passengers were Lieutenant Commander Hideo Tomonaga of the Imperial Japanese Navy, a naval architect and submarine designer who had come to Germany in 1943 on the Japanese submarine I-29, and Lieutenant Commander Shoji Genzo, an aircraft specialist and former naval attaché. ---
**Author:** ![Schnitte](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/schnitte/32/9033_2.png) [@Schnitte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Schnitte)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2015, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-world-war-2-how-did-the-germans-and-the-japanese-ambassadors-get-to-their-posts/720577/8 "2015-05-24T14:33:29Z")
> [@Malden\_Capell](#): > > (is there immunity if a diplomat is travelling to a co-combatant country via the high seas? Like, is it a violation of international law for the Royal Navy to sink a submarine which an ambassador to Spain from Japan was on?) The [Vienna Convention on Diplomatic Relations](http://legal.un.org/ilc/texts/instruments/english/conventions/9_1_1961.pdf), the international law source on the matter, provides that third countries have to accord immunity also to diplomats who transit their territory while travelling to their post, or from their post to their home country. Countries don’t have to issue a transit visa to such diplomats on transit, but if they do, they enjoy immunity on their journey even in third countries (Article 40). The Vienna Convention is also quite clear that diplomatic immunity also continues in case of armed conflict. Of course the Vienna Convention dates to 1961, well after the war. But it largely codifies what was applicable even before as customary international law, so I would suppose that these were the rules applying in the 1940s. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2015, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-world-war-2-how-did-the-germans-and-the-japanese-ambassadors-get-to-their-posts/720577/9 "2015-05-24T16:42:57Z")
I doubt that a country that would sink a surfaces sub with enemy survivors on deck would spare a submarine with an ambassador. 🙂