# In WWII, were U.S. enlisted men issued pistols? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [February 10, 2009, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-wwii-were-u-s-enlisted-men-issued-pistols/485246 "2009-02-10T17:54:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2009, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-wwii-were-u-s-enlisted-men-issued-pistols/485246/41 "2009-02-11T16:50:41Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > If your statement stands on the basis of a couple of anecdotes how is it better than mine? I have several hundred soldiers within walking distance, do you want me to take a poll? The inconsequential weight of a pistol will not keep you from carrying a few extra magazines. It is not either or. You ever train in combat firearm techniques? It is a lot quicker to drop your arm down and draw your already loaded pistol than it is to either clear a jam or find another magazine and reload. It is a common drill that I have done many many times. Trainers in modern warfare understand this. It wasn’t drilled that way in WWII but many of the soldiers understood the need and would beg borrow or steal to get a pistol. Many of them were issued but more wanted them. Very true that soldiers who weren’t issued handguns often wanted them. Back when the US military permitted soldiers to take souvenier weapons, captured handguns were highly sought after items. They were not only cool souveniers, but also a desirable weapon. As I understand it, the rules on souveniers are now very strict and captured weapons are more-or-less completely forbidden. ---
**Author:** ![Lust4Life](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ecc23a/32.png) [@Lust4Life](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lust4Life)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2009, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-wwii-were-u-s-enlisted-men-issued-pistols/485246/42 "2009-02-11T17:00:43Z")
IMHO officers were issued with pistols more for the risk of mutiny/refusal to obey an order then to actually use against the enemy. As stated upthread inWW1 British officers after a while started carrying rifles in the big attacks because they looked more like the rest of the men. They had previously suffered disproportionate losses on quite a heavy scale when they were identifiable as officers. ---
**Author:** ![Spiny\_Norman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9de0a6/32.png) [@Spiny\_Norman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spiny_Norman)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2009, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-wwii-were-u-s-enlisted-men-issued-pistols/485246/43 "2009-02-11T17:05:37Z")
> [@cornflakes](#): > > This was recorded in [The Longest Day.](http://www.amazon.com/Longest-Day-Classic-Epic-D-Day/dp/B0002OUQSK/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1234329854&sr=1-1) I’m probably wrong, but I thought that it was another officer. Ouch - The Longest Day is not always that bloody reliable in the first place. With the other cites here, I guess I’ll have to admit my faulty memory. ---
**Author:** ![Spiny\_Norman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9de0a6/32.png) [@Spiny\_Norman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spiny_Norman)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2009, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-wwii-were-u-s-enlisted-men-issued-pistols/485246/44 "2009-02-11T17:10:47Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > I guess it depends on the military in question. I’ve been inside plenty of HQs, and they’ve all been armed with rifles or carbines. I’m sure that’s the case. The IDF has always had a practical outlook on things. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2009, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-wwii-were-u-s-enlisted-men-issued-pistols/485246/45 "2009-02-11T17:34:14Z")
> [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](#): > > As I recall, various WW2 memoirs by enlisted men speak of picking up pistols from dead enemy soldiers whenever possible. As _souvenirs._ The Luger has very highly in demand _as a souvenir_. My Dad told of a dude coming from the European front to New Guinia who had one, and being offered a samurai sword and a couple of Nambu’s for it. Samurai swords were the hot souvenir in the Pacific. Note the Gen Omar Bradley routinely carried a M1 carbine for a good % of WWII, when he was out in the field. At Normandy, there should have been quite a few dropped weapons from casualties, should a General need one. My Dad was in a HQ unit in the Pacific front, and most dudes in his unit carried pistols, carbines or Thompsons. Dad had to scavenge for a Garand, he claimed it was the best infantry weapon the time. He claimed the Grease gun was a piece of crap, but the M1 Carbine was well-liked. ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2009, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-wwii-were-u-s-enlisted-men-issued-pistols/485246/46 "2009-02-11T17:35:08Z")
> [@Lust4Life](#): > > IMHO officers were issued with pistols more for the risk of mutiny/refusal to obey an order then to actually use against the enemy. > > As stated upthread inWW1 British officers after a while started carrying rifles in the big attacks because they looked more like the rest of the men. > > They had previously suffered disproportionate losses on quite a heavy scale when they were identifiable as officers. That shooting mutineers thing is something that has always puzzled me. I realize that it did, in fact, occur in many armies in both World Wars. The puzzling part is why a soldier with a rifle or submachine gun and possibly a couple grenades would allow himself to be shot down by a guy with a pistol…especially when you consider the pipsqueak handgun cartridges that many military issue pistols used at the time. Anything short of a brain-penetrating headshot from an officers pistol should have generated an immediate response in kind from a full-powered rifle or a burst from an smg. ---
**Author:** ![Count\_No\_Account](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/13edae/32.png) [@Count\_No\_Account](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Count_No_Account)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2009, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-wwii-were-u-s-enlisted-men-issued-pistols/485246/47 "2009-02-11T18:10:28Z")
The Smith and Wesson Model 59 was designed for a Navy spec and was issued briefly to SEAL’s as a suppressed, high-cap 9mm. Of course, that was during the Vietnam conflict so please forgive my going slightly OT. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2009, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-wwii-were-u-s-enlisted-men-issued-pistols/485246/48 "2009-02-11T18:16:53Z")
> [@Scumpup](#): > > That shooting mutineers thing is something that has always puzzled me. I realize that it did, in fact, occur in many armies in both World Wars. The puzzling part is why a soldier with a rifle or submachine gun and possibly a couple grenades would allow himself to be shot down by a guy with a pistol…especially when you consider the pipsqueak handgun cartridges that many military issue pistols used at the time. Anything short of a brain-penetrating headshot from an officers pistol should have generated an immediate response in kind from a full-powered rifle or a burst from an smg. I don’t know what you’re talking about. For one thing, the standard U.S. pistol round at that time was the .45 ACP, which isn’t exactly a pipsqueak as those things go. Secondly, a submachine gun fires pistol ammunition. I have shot a Thompson submachine gun a few times - it uses that same .45 ACP cartridge. In general, at close range, any of these bullets will leave you just as dead. ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2009, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-wwii-were-u-s-enlisted-men-issued-pistols/485246/49 "2009-02-11T18:37:50Z")
I wasn’t limiting things to just the US, especially since we weren’t known for shooting mutineers during the World Wars. The countries that did, like Italy, Japan, and the Soviet Union for example, didn’t issue .45 caliber pistols. The Italians used such “powerhouses” as the 9mm Glisenti, the .32 acp and the .380 acp. The Japanese used the feeble 8mm Nambu. The Soviets were still issuing the lackluster 7.62mm Nagant in large numbers. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2009, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-wwii-were-u-s-enlisted-men-issued-pistols/485246/50 "2009-02-11T19:02:35Z")
Point taken. But I don’t know that mutiny was the danger here - desertion and cowardice was. And a man who was too afraid to fight the dreaded enemy would probably be too afraid to shoot a fellow countryman. ---
**Author:** ![sqweels](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f19dbf/32.png) [@sqweels](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sqweels)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2009, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-wwii-were-u-s-enlisted-men-issued-pistols/485246/51 "2009-02-11T20:18:22Z")
> [@Scumpup](#): > > Very true that soldiers who weren’t issued handguns often wanted them. Back when the US military permitted soldiers to take souvenier weapons, captured handguns were highly sought after items. They were not only cool souveniers, but also a desirable weapon. Didn’t the Germans execute any GI who was caught with a Luger? Or is that just a UL or propaganda? ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2009, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-wwii-were-u-s-enlisted-men-issued-pistols/485246/52 "2009-02-11T20:24:44Z")
I am guessing that’s mostly a UL. ---
**Author:** ![Mister\_Rik](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mister_rik/32/491_2.png) [@Mister\_Rik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mister_Rik)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2009, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-wwii-were-u-s-enlisted-men-issued-pistols/485246/53 "2009-02-11T20:53:23Z")
> [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](#): > > As I recall, various WW2 memoirs by enlisted men speak of picking up pistols from dead enemy soldiers whenever possible. My grandfather came home with a German Luger pistol. My sister has it now. ---
**Author:** ![Count\_No\_Account](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/13edae/32.png) [@Count\_No\_Account](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Count_No_Account)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2009, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-wwii-were-u-s-enlisted-men-issued-pistols/485246/54 "2009-02-11T21:53:54Z")
Apparently, sergeants in cavalry divisions had them in WWII… . [http://www.awon.org/willie/wj3.JPG](http://www.awon.org/willie/wj3.JPG) ---
**Author:** ![sqweels](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f19dbf/32.png) [@sqweels](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sqweels)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2009, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-wwii-were-u-s-enlisted-men-issued-pistols/485246/55 "2009-02-11T22:07:52Z")
> [@Mister\_Rik](#): > > My grandfather came home with a German Luger pistol. My sister has it now. I can just picture her with it as one of her “accessories”. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Martini\_Enfield](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/martini_enfield/32/11123_2.png) [@Martini\_Enfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martini_Enfield)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2009, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-wwii-were-u-s-enlisted-men-issued-pistols/485246/56 "2009-02-12T02:51:52Z")
> [@sqweels](#): > > Didn’t the Germans execute any GI who was caught with a Luger? Or is that just a UL or propaganda? Definitely an Urban Legend; the only (combat) personnel the Germans would (officially) summarily execute were captured British Commandos, but war being what is there were a lot of “shot whilst trying to escapes” (on both sides) and so on, but generally it had nothing to do with the sidearms the captured soldiers had on their person. The Germans made extensive use of captured handguns (and longarms) during WWII, and Lugers weren’t actually as common during WWII as popular culture and received wisdom would have you believe- the standard issue German sidearm during WWII was the Walther P-38, although they were still making Lugers, and later on in the war the Germans were using pretty much anything they could get their hands on. The Mauser C96 saw quite a bit of use with both the Germans and the Russians during WWII. Also, Lugers are notoriously finicky guns, and not all that well suited to combat use. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2009, 7:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-wwii-were-u-s-enlisted-men-issued-pistols/485246/57 "2009-02-12T07:17:35Z")
> [@Scumpup](#): > > Very true that soldiers who weren’t issued handguns often wanted them. Back when the US military permitted soldiers to take souvenier weapons, captured handguns were highly sought after items. They were not only cool souveniers, but also a desirable weapon. > As I understand it, the rules on souveniers are now very strict and captured weapons are more-or-less completely forbidden. I have joked about it. In WWII they plundered for souveniers, banged nurses and French broads two at a time, and had canteens full of whiskey. And we call them the Greatest Generation. Now you can’t drink, have sex or take trophies. How do they expect us to win a war? > [@Martini\_Enfield](#): > > The Germans made extensive use of captured handguns (and longarms) during WWII, and Lugers weren’t actually as common during WWII as popular culture and received wisdom would have you believe- the standard issue German sidearm during WWII was the Walther P-38, although they were still making Lugers, and later on in the war the Germans were using pretty much anything they could get their hands on. The Mauser C96 saw quite a bit of use with both the Germans and the Russians during WWII. > > Also, Lugers are notoriously finicky guns, and not all that well suited to combat use. I own a P-38. It is a factory refurbished model from 1964. It’s a nice solid gun. Fun to shoot. But the Lugar looks cooler. ---
**Author:** ![Martini\_Enfield](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/martini_enfield/32/11123_2.png) [@Martini\_Enfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martini_Enfield)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2009, 7:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-wwii-were-u-s-enlisted-men-issued-pistols/485246/58 "2009-02-12T07:20:29Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > I own a P-38. It is a factory refurbished model from 1964. It’s a nice solid gun. Fun to shoot. But the Lugar looks cooler. They also jam if you use the wrong ammo or get them dirty. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2009, 1:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-wwii-were-u-s-enlisted-men-issued-pistols/485246/59 "2009-02-12T13:11:20Z")
The Luger does have a narrow range of ammunition that it likes. Ammo that duplicates German WWI-era military specs with respect to pressure, bullet weight, and bullet profile is to be preferred. The Luger isn’t a piece that lets you shoot whatever ammo you found for cheap. IME, the Luger is like the M-16 WRT cleaning. They do operate best when kept clean, but the amount of cleaning required is often overstated. I will never\_ever\_forgive myself for not buying a WWI bringback Luger about 10 years ago. It was a long barrelled model with shoulder stock and drum magazine. I ran across it in an antiques shop. It was with a bunch of other stuff on consignment from an estate. I inquired about the price and the lady told me “the family said they can’t let pappy’s gun go for less than $1100.” I didn’t have that much cash in my pocket at the time and didn’t want to put it on a credit card so I passed. What a retard!:smack: ---
**Author:** ![muldoonthief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muldoonthief/32/3188_2.png) [@muldoonthief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/muldoonthief)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2009, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-wwii-were-u-s-enlisted-men-issued-pistols/485246/60 "2009-02-12T15:12:45Z")
> [@Spiny\_Norman](#): > > Another example is that of Brig. T. Roosevelt Jr., who pleaded with his superiors and got permission to land with the first wave on Utah beach. According to one record (going from memory, so no cite, sorry) he’d managed to procure himself a rifle, but no ammunition. (Perhaps understandably, once the troops were in the landing craft and felt the reality of the situation, they did not feel inclined to share their ammunition. Apparently he ended up ordering 8 separate men to give up one round each, so he could at least get a full clip.) I know this has already been debunked here, but the legend doesn’t even make sense. A Garand [en bloc clip](http://lonelymachines.org/2008/05/05/gun-terminology-some-clarification/) is basically a molded piece of steel which can hold exactly eight rounds. If you take one round out, the clip loses tension and all the others fall out. And ammo was always issued to GI’s already loaded in clips, since loading one by hand is a giant pain in the ass, even when you’re not being shot at. So having 8 guys each pop one round out of a clip leaves 56 unusable rounds. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-wwii-were-u-s-enlisted-men-issued-pistols/485246.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-wwii-were-u-s-enlisted-men-issued-pistols/485246.md?page=4)