I think the general consensus here is that you were issued what you needed to do the job, and for the front line infantryman, you don’t have much use for a pistol. Of course, most soldiers are not front line infantrymen.
I think these days pistols are experiencing a bit of a comeback. Some activities for which pistols are better than rifles, such as searching cars at a checkpoint, are taking up more of a soldiers time than they perhaps did on the WW2 battlefield. Hell, for putting holes in people, a pistol is more useful than a bayonet, and doesn’t weigh a whole lot more. However, the modern maxim is that a pistol is what you use to fight your way to a rifle.
I suspect it’s the current trend, if for nothing else then to avoid sticking out in a sniper’s scope. Still, I expect that there’s not that many slung rifles to be seen at brigade HQ - as I’m sure you’ve experienced, command vehicles are cramped enough as it is. Back when I wore green, Company CO and Exec were issued pistols. The exec - that being the sort of soldier he was - always somehow managed to commandeer a rifle or submachinegun.
On topic, from WWII, I do know of a few examples of officers up-gunning in dire situations:
There is a famous photo of Gen. Joe Stilwell in his CP during the Burma defense - with his Garand, complete with bayonet, in the background. If a general is steeling himself (sorry) for personally taking part in defending the CP, it’s pretty much a given that things are not going according to plan.
Another example is that of Brig. T. Roosevelt Jr., who pleaded with his superiors and got permission to land with the first wave on Utah beach. According to one record (going from memory, so no cite, sorry) he’d managed to procure himself a rifle, but no ammunition. (Perhaps understandably, once the troops were in the landing craft and felt the reality of the situation, they did not feel inclined to share their ammunition. Apparently he ended up ordering 8 separate men to give up one round each, so he could at least get a full clip.)
Of course they weren’t from WWII but like all threads there has been a certain ammount of thread drift.
From post two:
This and other statements I was refuting. A pistol is of course not going to be your primary weapon in a firefight unless something bad has happened. It is a very useful tool. Most soldiers now would prefer to have one as their secondary weapon and the army for the most part issues two weapons to combat troops. I don’t see it being any different in WWII. I have read many accounts of those who were not issued them did not think they were useless weight. I gave accounts to prove that the statements about how unnecessary a pistol is are false.
He had the pull to get permission to land with the first wave, but didn’t have the pull to get a rifle and a few rounds? A brigadier? I know nothing about this stuff but I have trouble understanding this.
NCOs were issued pistols during WWI and WWII (when they were available), and I know that Machine-gun crews were generally issued a handgun, along with aircrew and armoured brigade units.
Just to hijack a bit. Not many people know about Teddy Roosevelt Jr. He was of course the son of the president. Although he was born into a wealthy family and very successful in private life he volunteered for service in WWI. He distinguished himself and was awarded the Distinguished Service Cross. He was also wounded and gassed which caused problems for the rest of his life. During WWII despite his poor health he served in North Africa and Sicily before successfully campaigning to have a combat command in the invasion. As the Assistant Division Commander of the 4th Infantry Division he went in on the first wave. When he found out that the force landed far from where they had planned he decided to go ahead and attack instead of trying for their intended target. “We’ll start the war from right here!” He improvised the battle plans from that spot and lead the troops off the beach, often exposing himself to enemy fire with little regard for his own safety. He did this with arthritis, a heart condition and walking with a cane. He died of a heart attack a month later and was awarded his Medal of Honor posthumously.
I guess it depends on the military in question. I’ve been inside plenty of HQs, and they’ve all been armed with rifles or carbines. Even my FiL - a 58-year-old reserve Lt. Colonel serving on the staff of an armored division - was issued an M-16 when he first showed up for reserve duty (he later traded it in for a Gallil SAR). He has no intention of seeing direct combat, but if his base comes under attack (and such things happen in war), he’s expected to take part in its defense.
You can’t be too highly ranked to get away with being in the field without a real weapon. Take IDF Chief of Staff, Lt. General Ashkenazi.
in WW1 there were plans (never implemented) to issue every GI in France with a pistol (surely unnecessary). By 1942 issue was made only to officers and those whose jobs made it difficult to carry a rifle but still needed something. Plenty of others managed to acquire them by various means. The carbine superseded the pistol to a great extent as the war went on.
Well of course there’s always going to be exceptional situations in which a backup weapon is necessary. But my statement still stands. I’ve heard from more than one soldier (my great uncle and my uncle respectively) that it would be better to have 3-4 more clips for your primary weapon than a pistol. A pistol uses up space and weight that could be better utilized on other items.
If your statement stands on the basis of a couple of anecdotes how is it better than mine? I have several hundred soldiers within walking distance, do you want me to take a poll? The inconsequential weight of a pistol will not keep you from carrying a few extra magazines. It is not either or. You ever train in combat firearm techniques? It is a lot quicker to drop your arm down and draw your already loaded pistol than it is to either clear a jam or find another magazine and reload. It is a common drill that I have done many many times. Trainers in modern warfare understand this. It wasn’t drilled that way in WWII but many of the soldiers understood the need and would beg borrow or steal to get a pistol. Many of them were issued but more wanted them.
Nope. Sergeant Major Basil Plumley was a real guy. They portrayed him exactly as he was shown in the nonfiction book. I think it was a direct quote from him. He was a tough SOB. Four combat jumps in WWII. One combat jump in Korea. Two Silver Stars, two Bronze Stars and four Purple Hearts.
