In WWII, were U.S. enlisted men issued pistols?

[Lust4Life]

@Scumpup

That shooting mutineers thing is something that has always puzzled me. I realize that it did, in fact, occur in many armies in both World Wars. The puzzling part is why a soldier with a rifle or submachine gun and possibly a couple grenades would allow himself to be shot down by a guy with a pistol…especially when you consider the pipsqueak handgun cartridges that many military issue pistols used at the time. Anything short of a brain-penetrating headshot from an officers pistol should have generated an immediate response in kind from a full-powered rifle or a burst from an smg.

The practice began before SMGs or grenades (as we know them )were around and like many things in the military it just carried on.

Why not a rifle?
Well I think that the officer would be close up to the putative mutineers so wouldn’t actually need any range, plus a short is easier to swing around close up to cover multiple potential targets on the principal of which one of you is prepared to die first before you get to kill me.

But thats just my guess.

[Scumpup]

@muldoonthief

I know this has already been debunked here, but the legend doesn’t even make sense. A Garand en bloc clip is basically a molded piece of steel which can hold exactly eight rounds. If you take one round out, the clip loses tension and all the others fall out. And ammo was always issued to GI’s already loaded in clips, since loading one by hand is a giant pain in the ass, even when you’re not being shot at. So having 8 guys each pop one round out of a clip leaves 56 unusable rounds.

If they each loaded a clip into their rifle, then manually worked the action to eject a live round, that would leave each man with a rifle loaded with 7 rounds. That would provide 8 loose rounds to (tediously) load into a clip.

[Martini_Enfield]

@muldoonthief

I know this has already been debunked here, but the legend doesn’t even make sense. A Garand en bloc clip is basically a molded piece of steel which can hold exactly eight rounds. If you take one round out, the clip loses tension and all the others fall out. And ammo was always issued to GI’s already loaded in clips, since loading one by hand is a giant pain in the ass, even when you’re not being shot at. So having 8 guys each pop one round out of a clip leaves 56 unusable rounds.

And the legend also fails to take into account the many, many rifles and SMGs that would have been lying on the beach within a minute or so of the first landing.

[muldoonthief]

@Scumpup

If they each loaded a clip into their rifle, then manually worked the action to eject a live round, that would leave each man with a rifle loaded with 7 rounds. That would provide 8 loose rounds to (tediously) load into a clip.

Now that sounds both safe and practical to do on a landing craft. Load weapons, safety off, eject a round, catch it in mid air, then load them into an empty clip (and where the hell did the general get an empty clip?), all while puttering around in the surf waiting to hit the beach. All because no privates will obey an order from a guy with a star on his helmet?

[Alessan]

@Martini_Enfield

And the legend also fails to take into account the many, many rifles and SMGs that would have been lying on the beach within a minute or so of the first landing.

Actually, that makes sense, as no leader would go into battle assuming that some of his men will die. I mean, can you imagine him saying (or even thinking), “Well, I want a gun, but I think I’ll wait for one of you losers to buy the farm”?

I mean, of course he knew that some of his people would be killed, but there’s a difference between knowing something and planning on something. Plus, just “hoping” that a rifle will show ups smacks of amateurism. His troops had prepared for the invasion for years; the least he could do was invest some forethought into it himself.

[Scumpup]

@muldoonthief

Now that sounds both safe and practical to do on a landing craft. Load weapons, safety off, eject a round, catch it in mid air, then load them into an empty clip (and where the hell did the general get an empty clip?), all while puttering around in the surf waiting to hit the beach. All because no privates will obey an order from a guy with a star on his helmet?

I didn’t say it happened that way. The point is that it is, in fact, possible for 8 men to each supply a single round without making the other 56 rounds useless. The story is almost certainly apocryphal.

[Martini_Enfield]

@Alessan

Actually, that makes sense, as no leader would go into battle assuming that some of his men will die. I mean, can you imagine him saying (or even thinking), “Well, I want a gun, but I think I’ll wait for one of you losers to buy the farm”?

I don’t have a reference handy, but I’ve read in several places that the Official Casualty Projections for D-Day were significantly larger than the actual casualties. So, in this case, a leader was going into battle assuming some of his men would die. Unfortunately a lot of them did, but not as many as The People In Charge thought, which is good.

Plus, just “hoping” that a rifle will show ups smacks of amateurism. His troops had prepared for the invasion for years; the least he could do was invest some forethought into it himself.

That’s very true. Even if he had completely overlooked that he would need a rifle or SMG as part of the landings, all he would have to do would be to go to the Quartermaster prior to departure and request a firearm and ammunition, which would have been provided.

But we’re arguing semantics here, as I think it’s been well established the story is apocryphal.

[Otara]

“(and where the hell did the general get an empty clip?)”

From all the empty clips that resulted from everyone loading their M1’s in order to eject a round of course .

Otara

[Martini_Enfield]

@Otara

“(and where the hell did the general get an empty clip?)”

From all the empty clips that resulted from everyone loading their M1’s in order to eject a round of course .

Otara

The M1 Garand uses an en bloc clip; which means the clip actually stays in the rifle, unlike the charger clips used on the Lee-Enfield, Mauser, or Mosin-Nagant rifles.

[Otara]

Rats!

Otara