# In Your Face Radical Right Happy Dance Gloating Thread **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 16, 2013, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-your-face-radical-right-happy-dance-gloating-thread/671414 "2013-10-16T17:41:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 14
**Author:** ![Karrius](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/71c47a/32.png) [@Karrius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Karrius)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2013, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-your-face-radical-right-happy-dance-gloating-thread/671414/261 "2013-10-18T01:00:46Z")
**Edit:** I’m going to make a new thread. ---
**Author:** ![Onomatopoeia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/onomatopoeia/32/4145_2.png) [@Onomatopoeia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Onomatopoeia)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2013, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-your-face-radical-right-happy-dance-gloating-thread/671414/262 "2013-10-18T01:04:38Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > You’ve just defined “rape” in a way that is simultaneously over-inclusive and over-exclusive. That’s an impressive feat of stupidity, even by your standards. Rape does not have to be penetrative. It doesn’t even have to involve a vagina at all. But it does have to be non-consensual. The law in question was many things, all of them bad, but no woman was ever, as a result of this law, going to be in a position where a doctor was going to stick something in her vagina, and she would be unable to tell him “no.” Let’s explore this. If a woman finds herself with an unwanted pregnancy and is presented with a choice of an invasive, unwanted, and wholly medically unnecessary medical procedure or carrying the unwanted fetus to term, wouldn’t you consider that unfair, inhumane, and needlessly abusive? Sure, she can say “no” to the procedure if she’s willing to accept a different kind of unwanted horror. It is not like there are no consequences to her saying “no”. What kind of choice is that, and why would anyone be okay with it? “If you don’t let us prod and probe your vagina you will be forced to gestate a fetus you don’t want whether you like it or not.” Some choice. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2013, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-your-face-radical-right-happy-dance-gloating-thread/671414/263 "2013-10-18T01:07:16Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > No. > > You seem to be completely oblivious to the distinction between “non-violent” and “non-consensual”. Sure, a sex act can be non-consensual, and hence rape, even if it isn’t violent. _ **But it can’t be non-consensual and hence rape IF THE PATIENT CONSENTS TO IT** _. > > Christ on a cracker, dude. You know those pieces of paper you have to sign at the doctor’s office before they’ll examine you? The ones called _ **consent forms** _? Gynecologists use those too. Consent under coercion isn’t consent at all. You might as well claim that it isn’t rape if the rapist makes the victim say “yes” at gunpoint. ---
**Author:** ![Karrius](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/71c47a/32.png) [@Karrius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Karrius)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2013, 1:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-your-face-radical-right-happy-dance-gloating-thread/671414/264 "2013-10-18T01:10:51Z")
[I’ve made a new thread for the rape issue.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=16767153) ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2013, 1:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-your-face-radical-right-happy-dance-gloating-thread/671414/265 "2013-10-18T01:14:50Z")
> [@Karrius](#): > > Maybe attack him in a thread where he does deserve it, but seriously - _republican actions are openly trying to hurt people_. They deserve all the responsibility and lack of sympathy that it causes. They’ve shown they themselves have no sympathy for others on this board - why should anybody have any sympathy for them, when they support jackasses? Bottom Line: If God dropped me at the Values Voters summit and informed me that he was gonna nuke the place if I failed to find 50 – make it 40, how about 30, can I get a 20, OK we’ll settle on 10 as the absolute rock-bottom – participants who did not share [the sin of Sodom](http://biblehub.com/ezekiel/16-49.htm), I would waste no time searching that could instead be used to increase my distance from Ground Zero by so much as a millimeter. ---
**Author:** ![Onomatopoeia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/onomatopoeia/32/4145_2.png) [@Onomatopoeia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Onomatopoeia)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2013, 1:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-your-face-radical-right-happy-dance-gloating-thread/671414/266 "2013-10-18T01:16:18Z")
> [@Karrius](#): > > [I’ve made a new thread for the rape issue.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=16767153) Thanks for that. I will discontinue posting on this tangent in this thread, and apologize to the other posters here, and mods, for my contribution to it. ---
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2013, 1:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-your-face-radical-right-happy-dance-gloating-thread/671414/267 "2013-10-18T01:23:48Z")
Somebody needs to educate me. “Vaginal ultrasounds”? Since when? Who’s advocating those and why would they when conventional ultrasounds presumably show the same thing with a little belly jelly and a handheld grocery store scanner? Why does a woman seeking an abortion even need one if she’s obviously not exceedingly pregnant? To shame her into not getting one because “Look here, miss! There’s the beating heart! You’re killing a living human!” Furthermore, what abortion doctors would even agree to such a procedure? Bad for business. I’ve really missed the boat here. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2013, 1:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-your-face-radical-right-happy-dance-gloating-thread/671414/268 "2013-10-18T01:24:11Z")
**Onomatopoeia** , I’m sure it was unintentional, but you have misquoted my recent post by inserting into it something I didn’t say: > [@Onomatopoeia](#): > > […] > > > [@Kimstu](#): > > > > Well, except that it is, don’t you know. Rape consists of penetration (or in some cases, other kinds of sexual assault) of a person’s body without their consent. > > > > A medical procedure (however invasive, oppressive and unnecessary) that a patient knowingly consents to (however grudgingly) is simply not the same thing as rape. **Of course it is.** That last bolded sentence is part of your response, not my quote. If I were as given to illogical rhetoric as some people around here, I might employ some pretty scathing analogies about the practice of sticking unwanted content into my quoted remarks against my will and without my consent. :dubious: > [@Onomatopoeia](#): > > Coercing a woman to have something inserted into her against her desire is rape, I don’t care what the method or cause of the coercion is. You also evidently don’t know or care what the meaning of “coercion” is. > [@Onomatopoeia](#): > > It seems as though some here are saying that just because the woman doesn’t fear for her life it is not rape, which is ridiculous. No, what we’re saying is that _because a woman knowingly **consents** to this legal medical procedure_, it is not rape. Fearing for your life has nothing to do with it. In the past I’ve knowingly consented to legal medical procedures that **did** make me fear for my life, and they weren’t rape either. > [@Onomatopoeia](#): > > It sickens me to hear the employment of coercive and wholly medically unnecessary vaginal ultrasounds, or the threat of its employment, categorized differently simply because it is not penile insertion. Haven’t any of you read the recounting of experiences by women who have been traumatized by going through this process? [Here’s one.](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/09/11/transvaginal-ultrasound-lawsuit_n_3907422.html) You know, if you weren’t so busy being sickened and outraged, you might have been alert enough to notice that what the woman in that article is charging the hospital with is “medical battery”, not rape. Now, why do you think that is? Hint: it’s because she _wasn’t raped_. > [@Onomatopoeia](#): > > If you are opposed to having the procedure done, but feel compelled to acquiesce by a threat to prevent you from accessing other, urgently needed healthcare services, then yes, I am arguing there is no meaningful difference. A violative act that is sexual in nature is rape. If I go to the dentist for urgently needed healthcare services, and he tells me that he cannot carry out the requested procedure without performing a legally mandated diagnostic probe of my tongue, palate and pharynx, and I object to that procedure because I consider it unnecessary and invasive but I consent to it anyway, has my dentist orally raped me? Like I said, I am adamantly opposed to unnecessary and invasive gynecological procedures of any kind, but saying that any consensual medical procedure is the same as actual rape is just third-degree-burn stupid. ---
**Author:** ![Onomatopoeia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/onomatopoeia/32/4145_2.png) [@Onomatopoeia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Onomatopoeia)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2013, 1:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-your-face-radical-right-happy-dance-gloating-thread/671414/269 "2013-10-18T01:29:23Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > **Onomatopoeia** , I’m sure it was unintentional, but you have misquoted my recent post by inserting into it something I didn’t say: > > That last bolded sentence is part of your response, not my quote. > > If I were as given to illogical rhetoric as some people around here, I might employ some pretty scathing analogies about the practice of sticking unwanted content into my quoted remarks against my will and without my consent. :dubious: Yeah, I screwed something up with that post and the quote tags. Sorry about that. I won’t respond to comments on the rape tangent in this thread, but I am willing to in the new thread opened by **Karrius** if you want. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2013, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-your-face-radical-right-happy-dance-gloating-thread/671414/270 "2013-10-18T01:30:24Z")
> [@FoieGrasIsEvil](#): > > Somebody needs to educate me. “Vaginal ultrasounds”? Since when? Who’s advocating those and why would they when conventional ultrasounds presumably show the same thing with a little belly jelly and a handheld grocery store scanner? The Republicans/anti-abortionists; and they support it in order to traumatize the woman as much as possible. It’s been in the news for some years. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2013, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-your-face-radical-right-happy-dance-gloating-thread/671414/271 "2013-10-18T01:30:57Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > Consent under coercion isn’t consent at all. You might as well claim that it isn’t rape if the rapist makes the victim say “yes” at gunpoint. Oh look, somebody else who doesn’t understand the meaning of “coercion”. A lot of them around tonight, apparently. A patient who can at any time avoid an unwanted medical procedure by withdrawing her consent to it and walking out of the doctor’s office is not in a comparable situation to a rape victim being held at gunpoint. As I said, making such stupid and exaggerated comparisons unjustifiably trivializes the trauma of actual rape. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2013, 1:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-your-face-radical-right-happy-dance-gloating-thread/671414/272 "2013-10-18T01:32:43Z")
> [@FoieGrasIsEvil](#): > > Furthermore, what abortion doctors would even agree to such a procedure? Any who practice in a state where the law requires it. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2013, 1:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-your-face-radical-right-happy-dance-gloating-thread/671414/273 "2013-10-18T01:33:01Z")
> [@mhendo](#): > > 😕 > > Did i miss something? He didn’t mention Asian and Latinos in that interview. Sorry. [Forgot this wasn’t the SRIOTD thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=16765158&postcount=11241). ---
**Author:** ![storyteller0910](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecae2f/32.png) [@storyteller0910](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/storyteller0910)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2013, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-your-face-radical-right-happy-dance-gloating-thread/671414/274 "2013-10-18T01:36:17Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > Oh look, somebody else who doesn’t understand the meaning of “coercion”. A lot of them around tonight, apparently. > > A patient who can at any time avoid an unwanted medical procedure by withdrawing her consent to it and walking out of the doctor’s office is not in a comparable situation to a rape victim being held at gunpoint. > > As I said, making such stupid and exaggerated comparisons unjustifiably trivializes the trauma of actual rape. I know you cheated on your husband. Consent to have sex with me right now or I will tell him. You can withdraw your consent at any time and walk out of my bedroom. But if you do I will ruin your marriage, which you value a great deal. Hey, stop crying. You consented, didn’t you? ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2013, 1:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-your-face-radical-right-happy-dance-gloating-thread/671414/275 "2013-10-18T01:37:10Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > Oh look, somebody else who doesn’t understand the meaning of “coercion”. A lot of them around tonight, apparently. > > A patient who can at any time avoid an unwanted medical procedure by withdrawing her consent to it and walking out of the doctor’s office is not in a comparable situation to a rape victim being held at gunpoint. > > As I said, making such stupid and exaggerated comparisons unjustifiably trivializes the trauma of actual rape. [Moderating] I’m going to call this post as the end of the ultrasound rape hijack in this thread. Anyone wanting to respond to something posted on the subject in this thread, should do so in the thread **Karrius** started. [/Moderating] ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2013, 1:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-your-face-radical-right-happy-dance-gloating-thread/671414/276 "2013-10-18T01:39:06Z")
EDIT: Ultrasound has been silenced 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2013, 1:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-your-face-radical-right-happy-dance-gloating-thread/671414/277 "2013-10-18T01:56:03Z")
> [@storyteller0910](#): > > I know you cheated on your husband. Consent to have sex with me right now or I will tell him. You can withdraw your consent at any time and walk out of my bedroom. But if you do I will ruin your marriage, which you value a great deal. Hey, stop crying. You consented, didn’t you? :rolleyes: Yes, threatening somebody with a deliberate malicious intrusion into their private family life if they will not cooperate with your sexual demands is fundamentally _ **NO DIFFERENT** _ from a doctor not being legally allowed to perform an elective medical procedure unless the patient consents to an additional medical procedure. You simply can have no idea how insanely stupid you sound when you try to force that kind of analogy onto a situation that just won’t support it. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2013, 1:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-your-face-radical-right-happy-dance-gloating-thread/671414/278 "2013-10-18T01:57:07Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > [Moderating] > I’m going to call this post as the end of the ultrasound rape hijack in this thread. Anyone wanting to respond to something posted on the subject in this thread, should do so in the thread **Karrius** started. > [/Moderating] Oops, sorry **Miller** , hadn’t seen that when I composed my last response. ---
**Author:** ![Tee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/73ab20/32.png) [@Tee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tee)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2013, 2:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-your-face-radical-right-happy-dance-gloating-thread/671414/279 "2013-10-18T02:00:42Z")
**Der Trihs** , you’ve taken a lot of hits in this thread. Just wanted to say that you made a damn good point worthy of reflection on this page. For me at least. > [@SteveG1](#): > > Why don’t they (the supposedly sane moral ones) do something about it? Why do/should they support them in elections, or even allow them to run on the party name? Why not disavow them? There’s this thing called the Base. Millions of Conservative voters. They consider themselves the bulwark against the Left and all its manifestations - public schools, the media, political correctness, Press 1 for English, and that ubiquitous woman with six kids and an Escalade who uses her EBT card for cigarettes and hair extensions. However it was done, this group has claimed the party and the platform, and would prefer that everyone else in it (RINOs, the Establishment) step aside or be removed. They have simply too much money and too much influence to be barred from anything. And there it stands. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2013, 2:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-your-face-radical-right-happy-dance-gloating-thread/671414/280 "2013-10-18T02:10:57Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > Oops, sorry **Miller** , hadn’t seen that when I composed my last response. I’ll let it slide this time, but do it again, and I’m taking a pinky. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-your-face-radical-right-happy-dance-gloating-thread/671414.md?page=13) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-your-face-radical-right-happy-dance-gloating-thread/671414.md?page=15)