# In your opinion: What's a sandwich? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [December 29, 2010, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-your-opinion-whats-a-sandwich/565762 "2010-12-29T23:39:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2010, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-your-opinion-whats-a-sandwich/565762/81 "2010-12-30T19:44:57Z")
Yeah, because otherwise there are practically no sandwiches in America, because butter or margarine are rare on sandwiches here. There’s no definitional aspect regarding the filling, condiments, or spreads. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2010, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-your-opinion-whats-a-sandwich/565762/82 "2010-12-30T19:50:23Z")
> [@Barking\_Dog](#): > > A sandwich is meat between two pieces of bread. That’s your basic sandwich. The rest is just details. And to my mind it has to have meat, or it doesn’t count. > [@acsenray](#): > > Cheese sandwich? > > Peanut-butter-and-jelly sandwich? > > Cucumber sandwich? > > Vegemite sandwich? Egg-salad sandwich? ---
**Author:** ![blondebear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blondebear/32/1022_2.png) [@blondebear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blondebear)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2010, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-your-opinion-whats-a-sandwich/565762/83 "2010-12-30T19:59:52Z")
Finger/knuckle sandwich? ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2010, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-your-opinion-whats-a-sandwich/565762/84 "2010-12-30T20:02:25Z")
Well, that’s meat. ---
**Author:** ![davidm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidm/32/225_2.png) [@davidm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidm)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2010, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-your-opinion-whats-a-sandwich/565762/85 "2010-12-30T20:02:29Z")
> [@acsenray](#): > > Egg-salad sandwich? Ah, but isn’t egg meat? Sort of? If not, what is it? It’s not fruit or vegetable. It’s not a grain. It is an animal product. It’s a pre-animal. Maybe I should start a thread… ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2010, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-your-opinion-whats-a-sandwich/565762/86 "2010-12-30T20:34:18Z")
> [@Terraplane](#): > > This whole thread is full of people providing their own definition of what constitutes a sandwich, it’s the point of the thread as I understand it. So, if my post doesn’t seem to take into account whichever particular definition you’re asking me about, it is quite possible (perhaps even likely?) that my post wasn’t referring to it in the first place. > > To be more clear, I’m wondering why those who consider burritos, tamales, or hot dogs to be sandwiches would or wouldn’t consider a pie or maybe a double stuffed pizza to be a sandwich. Why does pizza or pie get a special distinction but not burritos and tamales? Is it because there’s meat? If that’s the case is an apple pie not a sandwich but a turkey pot pie _is_? And yes, I recognize that this is all completely arbitrary, I’m just wondering why certain people draw the line where they do. > > Also, I wouldn’t argue the point that a hamburger is a kind of sandwich, I think it is. It’s hard to imagine people actually _calling_ it a ‘hamburger sandwich’ though. It seems so redundant, like asking for a ‘hot dog sausage’ or a bowl of ‘gumbo stew.’ Well, they’re not my definitions, they’re dictionary definitions combined with common sense thinking. As to pizza, it originated independently as its own category of food, just as a sandwich did. There just aren’t as many sub-categories for the item, just different toppings. I have no idea why this thread annoyed me all out of proportion to the topic. Must be the weather. ---
**Author:** ![devilsknew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4da419/32.png) [@devilsknew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/devilsknew)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2010, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-your-opinion-whats-a-sandwich/565762/87 "2010-12-30T20:49:17Z")
> [@acsenray](#): > > It’s not a regionalism. “Hamburger” is a contraction of a longer concept, like “hamburger sandwich” or “Hamburg-style sandwich.” > > All the things in your list are sandwiches, except the open-face sandwich. > > You’ve got it backwards. A sandwich is a general category of which all your other examples are specific instances. > > You’re the one insisting that it is wrong to refer to a Coke as a variety of soda. > [@Chefguy](#): > > Winner. I would add that a frankfurter is a Frankfurt-style sandwich. It’s irrelevant whether or not any of you have never heard a hamburger referred to as a sandwich. That’s like saying a Walkman is not a tape player because you’ve never called it that, or that beef bourguignon is not a stew. Learning German, I discovered that the general Germanic language construction for “sandwich” is simply “Blank-brot” or “Blank-bread”. For example, a “Hot Dog” would be generally a “Wurstbrot” or “Wurstsemmel” or a salami sandwich would be “Salamibrot”. And I’m not exactly sure, but I think that construction was the same in English before the inception and popularization of “Sandwich”. “ham bread” for example, would be a ham sandwich, as opposed to the current understanding of bread with ham baked into it. There is one thing though, the “Blank-Bread” construction in German often seemed to infer that the sandwich was “open faced”- something on top of bread, as opposed to, well, “sandwiched” between two slices of bread… so maybe that was the innovation and specific connotation of the term “sandwich”… an extra piece of bread. ---
**Author:** ![OpalCat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/8edcca/32.png) [@OpalCat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OpalCat)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2010, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-your-opinion-whats-a-sandwich/565762/88 "2010-12-30T21:02:08Z")
> [@runner pat](#): > > I voted “something else” as every category except open face is a sandwich. > > Sandwich means two things with some other thing in between(such as being sandwiched between two other people in a car) . You do realize that you can vote for more than one option in the poll, right? ---
**Author:** ![Drunky\_Smurf](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drunky_smurf/32/449_2.png) [@Drunky\_Smurf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drunky_Smurf)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2010, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-your-opinion-whats-a-sandwich/565762/89 "2010-12-30T21:36:33Z")
> [@AlsoNamedBort](#): > > Burgers are sandwiches, but hot dogs are not because the bread is on the sides, not the top and bottom. Will it become a sandwich if you rotate it 90 degrees? I’d say all of the above and pizza is just a giant fancy open-faced sandwich. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2010, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-your-opinion-whats-a-sandwich/565762/90 "2010-12-30T21:39:45Z")
I’ve seen menus in the United States that say “hot dog sandwich” or “frankfurter sandwich” or “Italian sausage sandwich.” > [@I](#): > > “Hamburger” is a contraction of a longer concept, like “hamburger sandwich” or “Hamburg-style sandwich.” Actually, I should amend that: “Hamburg-style filet sandwich.” “Hamburger” originally referred to the meat by itself. ---
**Author:** ![Enuma\_Elish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5e9695/32.png) [@Enuma\_Elish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enuma_Elish)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2010, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-your-opinion-whats-a-sandwich/565762/91 "2010-12-30T22:48:19Z")
> [@](#): > > > [@acsenray](#): > > > > It’s not a regionalism. “Hamburger” is a contraction of a longer concept, like “hamburger sandwich” or “Hamburg-style sandwich.” > > > > All the things in your list are sandwiches, except the open-face sandwich. > > > > You’ve got it backwards. A sandwich is a general category of which all your other examples are specific instances. > > > > You’re the one insisting that it is wrong to refer to a Coke as a variety of soda. Making one statement once is not ‘insisting’☹ I also never said it was _wrong_ to call a variety of soda a coke. I was merely wondering if a segment of the population who is comfortable with referring to specific sodas as ‘coke’ would also feel the same comfort level at referring to specific foods (subs, hoagies, grinders, etc) as ‘sandwiches’. There is no value judgement inherent in being curious about that.:rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2010, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-your-opinion-whats-a-sandwich/565762/92 "2010-12-30T22:55:24Z")
> [@Enuma\_Elish](#): > > Making one statement once is not ‘insisting’☹ I also never said it was _wrong_ to call a variety of soda a coke. I was merely wondering if a segment of the population who is comfortable with referring to specific sodas as ‘coke’ would also feel the same comfort level at referring to specific foods (subs, hoagies, grinders, etc) as ‘sandwiches’. > > There is no value judgement inherent in being curious about that.:rolleyes: Again, your analogy is backwards. It’s not a matter of value judgement. It’s simply that your question is posed the wrong way around. Coke:soda::sub (etc.):sandwich Whereas your question poses it this way Coke:soda:🥪sub (etc.) ---
**Author:** ![Enuma\_Elish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5e9695/32.png) [@Enuma\_Elish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enuma_Elish)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2010, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-your-opinion-whats-a-sandwich/565762/93 "2010-12-30T23:15:52Z")
> [@](#): > > > [@acsenray](#): > > > > Again, your analogy is backwards. It’s not a matter of value judgement. It’s simply that your question is posed the wrong way around. > > > > Coke:soda::sub (etc.):sandwich > > > > Whereas your question poses it this way > > > > Coke:soda:🥪sub (etc.) Are you making the claim that subs, grinders, hoagies, etc were in existance before The Earl of Sandwich created his namesake food? They are clearly subsets. The sandwich came first. They came later. Over time they proved to be so popular that they became identities unto themselves. Would you call a frog ‘a tadpole’? Would you call a butterfly ‘a caterpillar?’ I think not, because you can clearly see that while what they were led to what they are, it no longer defines what they are. A sub is a sub. A hoagie is a hoagie. A grinder is a grinder. A hamburger is a hamburger. A hot dog is a hot dog. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2010, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-your-opinion-whats-a-sandwich/565762/94 "2010-12-30T23:17:49Z")
Hamburger sandwich and hot dog sandwich used to be the standard way of referring to one back in the 1930s and probably well into the 50s. These were substantial meals, usually a good quarter-pound burger or more. Here are some hits from the Google News Archive search page. > [@](#): > > CANDOR KEYNOTE OF MEAT PACKING EXHIBITS AT FAIR > ‎ > Pay-Per-View - Chicago Tribune - Aug 12, 1934 > The hamburger sandwich has far outdistanced in popularity the old fashioned … > [@](#): > > Supreme Hamburger Sandwich Deluxe Frankfurter . > ‎ > Miami News - Dec 11, 1953 > [@](#): > > Hamburger-Sandwich Buyer Says Seller Bit His Nose After… > ‎ > Pay-Per-View - The Sun - Jul 1, 1936 > George W Schultz of ihe 1300 block Washington Boulevard bought a ham burger sandwich in a lunchroom in the 2200 block Frederick avenue last night > [@](#): > > Everyday Specials! .Hamburger Sandwich Chili Beans Chili… > ‎ > Modesto Bee - Jan 30, 1945 > [@](#): > > 55-cent Hamburger Sandwich Suggested . > ‎‎ > Youngstown Vindicator - Feb 20, 1927 > [@](#): > > Hot Dog Sandwich Grows More Popular .Upwards Of 25,000 Sold… > ‎ > Sunday Morning Star - Jul 27, 1924 > [@](#): > > Coney Island Hot Dog Sandwich > ‎ > Spokesman-Review - Apr 1, 1953 > [@](#): > > Sumter Daily Item - Mar 26, 1964 > An argument between two gourmets over whether the onion in a hot dog sandwich should go on top of or under the weiner ended In a brawl and a lawsuit. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2010, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-your-opinion-whats-a-sandwich/565762/95 "2010-12-30T23:21:15Z")
> [@Enuma\_Elish](#): > > A sub is a sub. A hoagie is a hoagie. A grinder is a grinder. A hamburger is a hamburger. A hot dog is a hot dog. And they are all subsets of the category “sandwich.” And you clearly agree, because you say … > [@](#): > > They are clearly subsets. The sandwich came first. They came later. And that is exactly why your question about Coke is backwards. Coke is a type of soda. Therefore, it is logical to refer to a Coke as “a soda.” A submarine sandwich is a type of sandwich. Therefore, it is logical to refer to a sub as “a sandwich.” But you are asking about people who refer to _any soda_ as “a Coke.” That’s not analogous. ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2010, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-your-opinion-whats-a-sandwich/565762/96 "2010-12-30T23:35:51Z")
Another thought on pizza: it’s generally referred to as a “pizza pie”, at least on the east coast. I don’t know what the word _pizza_ means in Italian, if anything. ---
**Author:** ![Enuma\_Elish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5e9695/32.png) [@Enuma\_Elish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enuma_Elish)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2010, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-your-opinion-whats-a-sandwich/565762/97 "2010-12-31T00:00:49Z")
> [@](#): > > > [@acsenray](#): > > > > And they are all subsets of the category “sandwich.” And you clearly agree, because you say … > > > > And that is exactly why your question about Coke is backwards. > > Coke is a type of soda. Therefore, it is logical to refer to a Coke as “a soda.” > > A submarine sandwich is a type of sandwich. Therefore, it is logical to refer to a sub as “a sandwich.” > > > > But you are asking about people who refer to _any soda_ as “a Coke.” That’s not analogous. This isn’t a thread about logic. This is a thread about food. Your insistance that the rules of logic need to be followed in a food thread is nonsensical to the point of being rude. This was a fun thread where everyone was joining in and giving their opinions. Noone was right and noone was wrong. Then you and Chefguy came in here and chilled the fun with your didactics, food snobbery, and claims that Wiki provides all the answers. Asking a question isn’t right or wrong and your insistance on ‘value judgements’ about simple questions borne out of simple curiosity is pushy, snooty, and overbearing. This isn’t Great Debates. Lighten Up Francis! ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2010, 12:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-your-opinion-whats-a-sandwich/565762/98 "2010-12-31T00:08:57Z")
> [@Enuma\_Elish](#): > > This isn’t a thread about logic. This is a thread about food. Your insistance that the rules of logic need to be followed in a food thread is nonsensical to the point of being rude. This was a fun thread where everyone was joining in and giving their opinions. Noone was right and noone was wrong. > > Then you and Chefguy came in here and chilled the fun with your didactics, food snobbery, and claims that Wiki provides all the answers. > > Asking a question isn’t right or wrong and your insistance on ‘value judgements’ about simple questions borne out of simple curiosity is pushy, snooty, and overbearing. This isn’t Great Debates. > > Lighten Up Francis! Um, what? **Ascenray** ’s comments were perfectly courteous, on-point, and correct. I, too, was confused by your analogy. ---
**Author:** ![Enuma\_Elish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5e9695/32.png) [@Enuma\_Elish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enuma_Elish)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2010, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-your-opinion-whats-a-sandwich/565762/99 "2010-12-31T00:57:01Z")
> [@](#): > > > [@pulykamell](#): > > > > Um, what? **Ascenray** ’s comments were perfectly courteous, on-point, and correct. I, too, was confused by your analogy. I wasn’t making an analogy. I was simply asking if a certain group of people who did one thing also did another. The coke comment was an aside that was buried in the thread until Ascenray dug it up and tried to claim that I was making a judgement about Southerners and made it an issue. When I explained that wasn’t the case, Ascenray decided to keep digging and poking. Ascenray now wants to make this an argument about logic. I don’t see it that way. I don’t think people’s **opinions** about food have to be logical. Asking whether someone who refers to orange soda as coke would also refer to a hoagie as a sandwich isn’t a question about logic. It is a question about regional references to food and speech patterns. These don’t have to follow the laws of logic. ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2010, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-your-opinion-whats-a-sandwich/565762/100 "2010-12-31T01:30:40Z")
> [@Enuma\_Elish](#): > > This isn’t a thread about logic. This is a thread about food. Your insistance that the rules of logic need to be followed in a food thread is nonsensical to the point of being rude. This was a fun thread where everyone was joining in and giving their opinions. Noone was right and noone was wrong. > > Then you and Chefguy came in here and chilled the fun with your didactics, food snobbery, and claims that Wiki provides all the answers. > > Asking a question isn’t right or wrong and your insistance on ‘value judgements’ about simple questions borne out of simple curiosity is pushy, snooty, and overbearing. This isn’t Great Debates. > > Lighten Up Francis! One cite (we’re still doing cites here, right?) was from Wiki, one was from Merriam’s Online Dictionary. This is an opinion forum. People offered their opinions; I offered mine. You’re under no obligation to read, heed, or otherwise pay any attention to them. In fact, I urge you to put me on ignore, since I offend your sensibilities so. Cheers. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-your-opinion-whats-a-sandwich/565762.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-your-opinion-whats-a-sandwich/565762.md?page=6)