# Inability to comprehend the end of one's 'spirit' or conscience does not make it fals **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 10, 2004, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/inability-to-comprehend-the-end-of-ones-spirit-or-conscience-does-not-make-it-fals/254473 "2004-07-10T20:01:06Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Lobsang](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobsang/32/4067_2.png) [@Lobsang](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobsang)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2004, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/inability-to-comprehend-the-end-of-ones-spirit-or-conscience-does-not-make-it-fals/254473/21 "2004-07-10T20:50:42Z")
> [@Zagadka](#): > > What I’m not being an asshole to anyone. You’re the one equating me with Al Qaeda and saying I believe in Santa Claus or whatever. not being an asshole, right. ok. Try re-reading what I typed if you think I am equating you with Al Qaeda and saying you believe in santa. ---
**Author:** ![Zagadka](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zagadka/32/7272_2.png) [@Zagadka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zagadka)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2004, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/inability-to-comprehend-the-end-of-ones-spirit-or-conscience-does-not-make-it-fals/254473/22 "2004-07-10T20:52:02Z")
> [@Lobsang](#): > > **Zagadka** are you going to start being civilized or do I have to ignore you and probably the thread? O\_o Maybe you should play in the other forums before trying to post in GD. We actually challenge each others’ ideas here, not post and hug each other happily. ---
**Author:** ![Lobsang](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobsang/32/4067_2.png) [@Lobsang](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobsang)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2004, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/inability-to-comprehend-the-end-of-ones-spirit-or-conscience-does-not-make-it-fals/254473/23 "2004-07-10T20:52:07Z")
if it was the flying planes into skyscrapers. I was giving an example of fundementalism to compare with what I am doing. how on earth can you interpret that as me equating you with al quaeda? ---
**Author:** ![Zagadka](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zagadka/32/7272_2.png) [@Zagadka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zagadka)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2004, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/inability-to-comprehend-the-end-of-ones-spirit-or-conscience-does-not-make-it-fals/254473/24 "2004-07-10T20:54:04Z")
> [@Lobsang](#): > > Try re-reading what I typed if you think I am equating you with Al Qaeda and saying you believe in santa. OK. “There’s a slight difference between flying planes into skyscrapers and typing posts into message boards” “I’ll stick with my belief in nothing over your belief in a magic invisible all powerful being in mans image” “If you had asked me then if I believed in FC I would probably swore blind that he exists, just like theists swear blind god exists.” ---
**Author:** ![Lobsang](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobsang/32/4067_2.png) [@Lobsang](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobsang)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2004, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/inability-to-comprehend-the-end-of-ones-spirit-or-conscience-does-not-make-it-fals/254473/25 "2004-07-10T20:54:18Z")
> [@Zagadka](#): > > Maybe you should play in the other forums before trying to post in GD. **We actually challenge each others’ ideas here** , not post and hug each other happily. Is that what you think you are doing?? (bolding mine) I am not averse to being challenged. but I would rather not listen to snide comments and childishness. ---
**Author:** ![Lobsang](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobsang/32/4067_2.png) [@Lobsang](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobsang)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2004, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/inability-to-comprehend-the-end-of-ones-spirit-or-conscience-does-not-make-it-fals/254473/26 "2004-07-10T20:57:02Z")
“There’s a slight difference between flying planes into skyscrapers and typing posts into message boards” As I have said I was giving an example of fundementalism to compare with what I am doing because you called me a fundementalist “I’ll stick with my belief in nothing over your belief in a magic invisible all powerful being in mans image” I’m not sure why you quoted that. “If you had asked me then if I believed in FC I would probably swore blind that he exists, just like theists swear blind **god** exists.” ‘god’ ‘GOD’ not ‘santa’ if this looks to you like I am saying you believe in santa you have a problem parsing sentences. ---
**Author:** ![Zagadka](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zagadka/32/7272_2.png) [@Zagadka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zagadka)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2004, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/inability-to-comprehend-the-end-of-ones-spirit-or-conscience-does-not-make-it-fals/254473/27 "2004-07-10T20:57:04Z")
> [@Lobsang](#): > > Is that what you think you are doing?? (bolding mine) I am not averse to being challenged. but I would rather not listen to snide comments and childishness. Wow, we agree on something. Are you done testifying and being sarcastic now, or would you like to start another non-debate thread? ---
**Author:** ![Lobsang](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobsang/32/4067_2.png) [@Lobsang](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobsang)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2004, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/inability-to-comprehend-the-end-of-ones-spirit-or-conscience-does-not-make-it-fals/254473/28 "2004-07-10T20:59:45Z")
> [@Zagadka](#): > > Are you done testifying and being sarcastic now, or would you like to start another non-debate thread? Gee, I started a non-debate thread. at least i’m not shitting in other people’s. ---
**Author:** ![Zagadka](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zagadka/32/7272_2.png) [@Zagadka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zagadka)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2004, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/inability-to-comprehend-the-end-of-ones-spirit-or-conscience-does-not-make-it-fals/254473/29 "2004-07-10T21:00:14Z")
> [@Lobsang](#): > > “There’s a slight difference between flying planes into skyscrapers and typing posts into message boards” > > As I have said I was giving an example of fundementalism to compare with what I am doing because you called me a fundementalist That isn’t fundamentalism. THat is a lot of people really pissed off. fun·da·men·tal·ism Pronunciation Key (fnd-mntl-zm) n. 1. A usually religious movement or point of view characterized by a return to fundamental principles, by rigid adherence to those principles, and often by intolerance of other views and opposition to secularism. > [@](#): > > “I’ll stick with my belief in nothing over your belief in a magic invisible all powerful being in mans image” > > I’m not sure why you quoted that. Because it shows you being an, as you say, sarcastic asshole, intolerant of other people’s views (see above) > [@](#): > > “If you had asked me then if I believed in FC I would probably swore blind that he exists, just like theists swear blind **god** exists.” > > ‘god’ ‘GOD’ not ‘santa’ if this looks to you like I am saying you believe in santa you have a problem parsing sentences. You likened believing in god as believing in Fanta. I didn’t say it, you did. _shrugs_ ---
**Author:** ![Zagadka](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zagadka/32/7272_2.png) [@Zagadka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zagadka)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2004, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/inability-to-comprehend-the-end-of-ones-spirit-or-conscience-does-not-make-it-fals/254473/30 "2004-07-10T21:01:26Z")
> [@Lobsang](#): > > Gee, I started a non-debate thread. at least i’m not shitting in other people’s. You don’t own a thread. You start a discussion. You may, however, ask a mod to close it any time you start feeling uncomfortable. ---
**Author:** ![Zagadka](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zagadka/32/7272_2.png) [@Zagadka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zagadka)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2004, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/inability-to-comprehend-the-end-of-ones-spirit-or-conscience-does-not-make-it-fals/254473/31 "2004-07-10T21:04:00Z")
OK, lets get the ball rolling on some discussion. To borrow a page from… well, you… what do you think of the quote “Inability to comprehend religion does not make it false”? ---
**Author:** ![Lobsang](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobsang/32/4067_2.png) [@Lobsang](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobsang)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2004, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/inability-to-comprehend-the-end-of-ones-spirit-or-conscience-does-not-make-it-fals/254473/32 "2004-07-10T21:07:24Z")
> [@Zagadka](#): > > To borrow a page from… well, you… what do you think of the quote “Inability to comprehend religion does not make it false”? Good point. I have no proof god doesn’t exist. but I still believe it almost totally. > [@](#): > > You don’t own a thread. You start a discussion. That’s funny coming from someone talking as if he owns the forum. ---
**Author:** ![Apos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/838e76/32.png) [@Apos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apos)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2004, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/inability-to-comprehend-the-end-of-ones-spirit-or-conscience-does-not-make-it-fals/254473/33 "2004-07-10T21:09:11Z")
I’ve lost consciousness before, plenty of times. I simply don’t have any conscious awareness for whatever period of time I was out. I don’t see why that period couldn’t just as easily be indefinate as temporary. Given that there’s no way to establish that the conscious experience from one moment has any real connection to the past moment (just an apparent connection via a memory of it), I’m not even sure if it’s such a big deal. To use the Star Trek example: let’s say I’m teleported from one place to another by taking apart my atoms and reforming them elsewhere. Or even just taking apart my atoms scattering them, and using completely new atoms to build an exact replica of me elsewhere. Now, you could look at this as killing me, then bringing me back to life (just as when someone’s heart stops for a few minutes, is repaired by a surgeon, and is restarted, only more drastic). You can see it as killing me and then bringing to life a new creature that just happens to have my memories and experiences having been the past me. Or you can see it as simply transporting “me” from one place to another. I’m not sure any of these descriptions is either right or wrong: they simply stem from different understandings of what “me” is, none of which are particularly well defined, and none of which seems to be the one and only correct understanding. Of course, you are a Platonic essentialist, this sort of problem might drive you nuts. But if you are someone that simply talks about what is, and what has happened, it’s not really a big deal. Concepts like an essentialist “me” have no real, fundamental meaning. There are just beings with similar identities, who are neither the sum of PARTICULAR atoms, nor a bright line of life that must always be consistent and the same at every moment. My identity is a fuzzy concept, not a discrete one. ---
**Author:** ![Lobsang](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobsang/32/4067_2.png) [@Lobsang](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobsang)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2004, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/inability-to-comprehend-the-end-of-ones-spirit-or-conscience-does-not-make-it-fals/254473/34 "2004-07-10T21:09:28Z")
> [@Zagadka](#): > > You may, however, ask a mod to close it any time you start feeling uncomfortable. Irritated, yes. uncomfortable, no. I am not looking for hugs. I should think that’s obvious considering my anti theism views and postings. I was expecting reasoned debate not snide belittling replies. ---
**Author:** ![Zagadka](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zagadka/32/7272_2.png) [@Zagadka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zagadka)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2004, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/inability-to-comprehend-the-end-of-ones-spirit-or-conscience-does-not-make-it-fals/254473/35 "2004-07-10T21:16:35Z")
> [@Lobsang](#): > > Irritated, yes. uncomfortable, no. I am not looking for hugs. I should think that’s obvious considering my anti theism views and postings. I was expecting reasoned debate not snide belittling replies. Don’t lie now. “I’m not debating I am just sharing my thoughts. Can’t I do that?” You didn’t “expect reasoned debate” at all. You “expected” to make your own snide, belittling comments and then started calling me an asshole when I replied that you don’t know what you’re talking about (to which you freely admitted) and that you were spamming multiple, incoherent posts with no real point other than saying “I don’t believe in god or Santa Claus.” Sorry if that isn’t what you expected. Maybe you should have posted to IMHO. ---
**Author:** ![Lobsang](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobsang/32/4067_2.png) [@Lobsang](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobsang)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2004, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/inability-to-comprehend-the-end-of-ones-spirit-or-conscience-does-not-make-it-fals/254473/36 "2004-07-10T21:23:34Z")
> [@Zagadka](#): > > Don’t lie now. > > “I’m not debating I am just sharing my thoughts. Can’t I do that?” > > You didn’t “expect reasoned debate” at all. You “expected” to make your own snide, belittling comments and then started calling me an asshole when I replied that you don’t know what you’re talking about (to which you freely admitted) and that you were spamming multiple, incoherent posts with no real point other than saying “I don’t believe in god or Santa Claus.” > > Sorry if that isn’t what you expected. Maybe you should have posted to IMHO. Surely you realize it would have been moved here. that’s why I put it here. I admit to snide comments to belief in god and to GWB "started calling me an asshole " you were _being_ one! "multiple, incoherent posts with no real point other than saying “I don’t believe in god or Santa Claus.” " this a perfect example of your attitude this attitude is assholeish. ---
**Author:** ![Lobsang](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobsang/32/4067_2.png) [@Lobsang](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobsang)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2004, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/inability-to-comprehend-the-end-of-ones-spirit-or-conscience-does-not-make-it-fals/254473/37 "2004-07-10T21:26:21Z")
**Zagadka** I’m asking you once, nicely. If you have a problem with me can you make a post in the pit. Can you stop behaving like this here. ---
**Author:** ![Zagadka](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zagadka/32/7272_2.png) [@Zagadka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zagadka)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2004, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/inability-to-comprehend-the-end-of-ones-spirit-or-conscience-does-not-make-it-fals/254473/38 "2004-07-10T21:27:58Z")
> [@Lobsang](#): > > I admit to snide comments to belief in god and to GWB WTF? Where did GWB come from? > [@](#): > > "started calling me an asshole " you were _being_ one! “I think being able to share outweighs not offending people. I don’t want to offend people but my thoughts are not manipulated by their effect on people, that would be censorship.” Sorry if my sharing is assholish. > [@](#): > > "multiple, incoherent posts with no real point other than saying “I don’t believe in god or Santa Claus.” " > > this a perfect example of your attitude this attitude is assholeish. What? That’s what you were doing. You made multiple, incoherent posts with no real point other than saying “I don’t believei n god or Santa Clause”. You even admitted that you didn’t understand what religion is. What _was_ your point for debate? ---
**Author:** ![Zagadka](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zagadka/32/7272_2.png) [@Zagadka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zagadka)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2004, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/inability-to-comprehend-the-end-of-ones-spirit-or-conscience-does-not-make-it-fals/254473/39 "2004-07-10T21:29:03Z")
> [@Lobsang](#): > > **Zagadka** I’m asking you once, nicely. If you have a problem with me can you make a post in the pit. Can you stop behaving like this here. Behaving like WHAT? ---
**Author:** ![Lobsang](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobsang/32/4067_2.png) [@Lobsang](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobsang)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2004, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/inability-to-comprehend-the-end-of-ones-spirit-or-conscience-does-not-make-it-fals/254473/40 "2004-07-10T21:30:34Z")
> [@Zagadka](#): > > Behaving like WHAT? clearly you can’t see it. I am going to get a mod to close this and I’ll repost it in MPSIMS. happy? (or will you shit in that one too?) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/inability-to-comprehend-the-end-of-ones-spirit-or-conscience-does-not-make-it-fals/254473.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/inability-to-comprehend-the-end-of-ones-spirit-or-conscience-does-not-make-it-fals/254473.md?page=3)