# incandescent bulbs **URL:** \ **Category:** Cecil's Columns/Staff Reports\ **Created:** [February 3, 2012, 1:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/incandescent-bulbs/611645 "2012-02-03T13:03:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Blackfaer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@Blackfaer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blackfaer)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2012, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/incandescent-bulbs/611645/41 "2012-02-05T00:11:04Z")
> [@Michael63129](#): > > Also, with regards to fluorescent lights in general, I have always wondered why they can’t make one that has no mercury in it; after all, white LEDs use a phosphor to convert blue light to yellow light, which mixes to make white light, so UV (produced by mercury vapor) isn’t necessary. Theoretically, you could even use a mixture of gasses that would produce white light in itself, then there would be no losses in converting it to a different wavelength with phosphors. The fluorescent process starts with UV - the technology of fluorescing requires a minute amount of Mercury to generate any light output to begin with. I’ve heard of experiments with other materials, but so far nothing that doesn’t cost a fortune can even come close to replacing Mercury. That said, the amount in a CFL is less than what’s in a typical can of Tuna, so it’s far less a problem than it’s made out to be. Break your thermometer and you’ve just put millions of times more mercury into your house. But while it might be theoretically possible to generate a white light from passing electricity through gasses in a tube, without dramatically higher voltages and currents, no gas or combination has been found that can generate white light, only limited spectrum light. Up the amperage and you can do it - that’s how metal halide and arc lamps work, but now you’re getting into dramatically larger light output and you’ll be running into issues with household power supplies… ---
**Author:** ![MysteryFellow63427](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a88e4f/32.png) [@MysteryFellow63427](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MysteryFellow63427)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2012, 12:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/incandescent-bulbs/611645/42 "2012-02-05T00:36:13Z")
[quote=“Michael63129, post:13, topic:611645”] Just to clear up a common misconception (as mentioned in several posts), incandescent bulbs [were never banned](http://thinkprogress.org/romm/2011/07/19/272195/murdoch-conservative-media-misled-light-bulb-consumers/); in fact, they are still very much allowed to be sold - if they meet a minimum efficiency standard; for example, a 100 watt equivalent must use 72 watts or less for the same brightness The result is a _de facto_ ban, how you got there isn’t terribly important (in terms of effect to the consumer). ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2012, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/incandescent-bulbs/611645/43 "2012-02-05T00:51:04Z")
> [@Blackfaer](#): > > That said, the amount in a CFL is less than what’s in a typical can of Tuna… I don’t think this is correct. I’m finding references saying ~50 micrograms in a can of tuna vs ~5 milligrams (100 times more) in a CFL. ---
**Author:** ![Michael63129](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/3da27b/32.png) [@Michael63129](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Michael63129)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2012, 1:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/incandescent-bulbs/611645/44 "2012-02-05T01:24:43Z")
> [@Mangetout](#): > > I don’t think this is correct. I’m finding references saying ~50 micrograms in a can of tuna vs ~5 milligrams (100 times more) in a CFL. I Googled it too and what he seem to be saying is that the mercury exposure, via inhaled mercury vapor, is less, even if you didn’t follow the cleanup directions posted earlier. That actually makes sense since a lot of the mercury, especially in old CFLs, will be absorbed by the phosphor and glass (sometimes to the point where all of the mercury is absorbed and only the argon glows). Some modern CFLs also have less than 1 milligram of mercury, further reducing exposure. Here is what one source says: > [@](#): > > [The Mercury Myth: How Much Mercury Do CFLs Actually Contain?](http://www.txchnologist.com/2011/the-mercury-myth-how-much-mercury-do-cfls-actually-contain) > > A typical 6 oz. fish sandwich contains 48 micrograms of mercury (that’s 0.048 mg), according to the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services. If you knock over a lamp and a CFL breaks, it will typically results in a dose of 0.07 micrograms (that’s 0.0007 mg) of mercury, according to scenarios assessed by the Maine Department of Environmental Protection. Another source quoting the same study (worst-case scenario): > [@](#): > > [How toxic is a busted compact florescent bulb?](http://science.kqed.org/quest/2009/06/12/how-toxic-is-a-busted-compact-florescent-bulb/) > > The startling conclusion of the paper is that in a worse case scenario—you break a CFL in a closed, unventilated room; you vacuum the carpet, throwing mercury into the air; you set the vacuum in a corner; and then sit in the room breathing for eight hours—the amount of mercury exposure is about equivalent to the exposure you’d get from eating a can of Albacore tuna. Note that is just what you are exposed to, plus the mercury in fish is in the form of methlymercury, [which is more dangerous](http://toxics.usgs.gov/definitions/methylmercury.html) than metallic mercury (more toxic, easily absorbed and takes longer to eliminate). ---
**Author:** ![Una\_Persson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/una_persson/32/346_2.png) [@Una\_Persson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Una_Persson)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2012, 3:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/incandescent-bulbs/611645/45 "2012-02-05T03:07:16Z")
> [@Blackfaer](#): > > What I noticed Cecil didn’t come up with is that for color-sensitive applications, or for applications where dimming is needed, fluorescents and LEDs have serious deficiencies compared to halogen or incandescents. FWIW Cecil investigated a very large number of potential negative effects of CFL lights, but was limited to hitting some of what he felt were the most important ones due to the column space which is available in the newspaper. ---
**Author:** ![MahtaMouse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d07c76/32.png) [@MahtaMouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MahtaMouse)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2012, 7:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/incandescent-bulbs/611645/46 "2012-02-05T07:08:21Z")
I tried putting a CF bulb in my porch light. Not only did the fug-ugly thing stick out below the fixture, but it left me & the kitchen garbage… not to mention the unexpected knock after dark… IN the dark for a full minute. Then it burned out after a measly month and a half. My idiot husband replaced the ceiling lights in my laundry/pantry room with CFs to “save” energy. Since I’m not a bat, I’d either have to wait a full minute before going in or risk walking into a shelf and coming back with corn instead of beans plus a pretty little black eye to boot. Since I’m constantly in and out, I ended up leaving the lights on 'til bedtime. So in my opinion, factoring in the cost of a CF bulb, leaving them on 15+ hours a day, replacing an outside light 4-5 times more often than an incandescent, not to mention the gas spent to drop them off somewhere due to being a HAZARDOUS waste product; then personally I can see NO savings involved in the change over, making this government mandate… ludicrous. I think I’ll get my passport for Canada and become a lightbulb smuggler… ---
**Author:** ![Mdcastle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/958977/32.png) [@Mdcastle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mdcastle)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2012, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/incandescent-bulbs/611645/47 "2012-02-05T15:40:27Z")
> [@Blackfaer](#): > > The fluorescent process starts with UV - the technology of fluorescing requires a minute amount of Mercury to generate any light output to begin with. I’ve heard of experiments with other materials, but so far nothing that doesn’t cost a fortune can even come close to replacing Mercury… > > But while it might be theoretically possible to generate a white light from passing electricity through gasses in a tube, without dramatically higher voltages and currents, no gas or combination has been found that can generate white light, only limited spectrum light. Up the amperage and you can do it - that’s how metal halide and arc lamps work, but now you’re getting into dramatically larger light output and you’ll be running into issues with household power supplies… Some nasty things just tend to work better in applications than the alternatives, witness DDT, asbestos, PPD, and phosphates. It should be noted that HID bulbs except for Low Pressure Sodium also contain mercury. Metal Halide is basically a Mercury Vapor lamp with salts added to improve efficiency and light quality and High Pressure Sodium has mercury to “get it started”, note that they turn blue when turned on before the sodium kicks in. Considering the amount of energy they use, maybe a standard inandescent is another “nasty thing that just works better”. I was going to put “decent replacement for a standard incandescent” in the “things I’d buy if they existed thread” but we’ve had enough bulb argurments already. ---
**Author:** ![Anthony\_Kaye](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ed8c4c/32.png) [@Anthony\_Kaye](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anthony_Kaye)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2012, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/incandescent-bulbs/611645/48 "2012-02-05T16:43:54Z")
CFLs are already yesterday’s lighting. Tech. change comes faster and faster. Incandescents 100 years, Fluorescents 60 years, CFLs 15 years. LEDs now. My experience-see above-is really positive. Their lifespan may be exaggerated , but a9W current for a bedside light? . Soon they’ll be as cheap as chips (sorry, french fries), and the CFL and incandescent will be dodos. ---
**Author:** ![johnpost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f17d59/32.png) [@johnpost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/johnpost)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2012, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/incandescent-bulbs/611645/49 "2012-02-05T16:56:00Z")
> [@MahtaMouse](#): > > I tried putting a CF bulb in my porch light. Not only did the fug-ugly thing stick out below the fixture, but it left me & the kitchen garbage… not to mention the unexpected knock after dark… IN the dark for a full minute. Then it burned out after a measly month and a half. > > My idiot husband replaced the ceiling lights in my laundry/pantry room with CFs to “save” energy. Since I’m not a bat, I’d either have to wait a full minute before going in or risk walking into a shelf and coming back with corn instead of beans plus a pretty little black eye to boot. Since I’m constantly in and out, I ended up leaving the lights on 'til bedtime. > > So in my opinion, factoring in the cost of a CF bulb, leaving them on 15+ hours a day, replacing an outside light 4-5 times more often than an incandescent, not to mention the gas spent to drop them off somewhere due to being a HAZARDOUS waste product; then personally I can see NO savings involved in the change over, making this government mandate… ludicrous. I think I’ll get my passport for Canada and become a lightbulb smuggler… CFL work best and last the longest if left on for maybe 20 to 30 minutes. they are not the best bulb for short uses or instant light. hallways, closets, porches might be better serves by another bulb type. in my laundry room i have an incandescent ceiling fixture and a long tube florescent fixture, if i’m in and out in a few minutes i use the incandescent. Canada is also phasing out inefficient incandescent types as are many countries. ---
**Author:** ![ripopgome](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/a698b9/32.png) [@ripopgome](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ripopgome)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2012, 9:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/incandescent-bulbs/611645/50 "2012-02-06T09:25:29Z")
> [@Anthony\_Kaye](#): > > CFLs are already yesterday’s lighting. Tech. change comes faster and faster. Incandescents 100 years, Fluorescents 60 years, CFLs 15 years. LEDs now. My experience-see above-is really positive. Their lifespan may be exaggerated , but a9W current for a bedside light? . Soon they’ll be as cheap as chips (sorry, french fries), and the CFL and incandescent will be dodos. This. The latest batch of LEDs I bought produce a really nice, bright, more pleasing light. Yes, they are expensive. But they don’t get very hot (so it seems, anyhow), should last “forever” (close enough, anyhow), and certainly use a lot less energy once they’re produced. I’m pretty sure in 15 years new houses will be essentially 100% LED for lighting needs. Heck, I even got a couple of solar-powered motion-detector outdoor security lights that turned out to be LED-based. They work pretty well, although admittedly they’re a little dim for my tastes, but I think that’s more a function of the manufacturer being cheap, than limitations of the technology. ---
**Author:** ![constanze](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f9ae1b/32.png) [@constanze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/constanze)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2012, 9:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/incandescent-bulbs/611645/51 "2012-02-06T09:44:26Z")
> [@thefensk](#): > > Cut the power to the bulb and removed it … extremely hot. I’ve seen a primary short in a big ballast … once they burn, they ignite a very hot fire. A surprising number of business fires are caused by these things. > In short, I predict we can expect a rise in the number of house fires over the coming years. Unlike incandescent, which are always hot? Seriously? To get a CFL very hot, you need a rare failure; to get an incandescent hot, you switch it on. What’s more likely to start fires? Also, because the incandescent draws more load - 60 to 100W - compared to CFL - 9 W to 20 W - it’s more likely that something goes wrong with the wires, esp. in older houses, with old bulbs than with CFLs. ---
**Author:** ![constanze](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f9ae1b/32.png) [@constanze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/constanze)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2012, 10:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/incandescent-bulbs/611645/52 "2012-02-06T10:02:03Z")
> [@leggy](#): > > Yes, you’re correct that there is no energy loss when using incandescent bulbs in cooler climates, which coincidentally includes most of the United States. People use less light during the “cooling season,” because there’s more daylight. They use more during the “heating season,” where the IR emitted by incandescent bulbs is actually helping keep the home the temperature you want. Only if you use electric heating which is wasteful because you add one additional step during which you loose power. Switching to heating with gas or wood pellets is much more efficient than heating with electricity. > [@](#): > > More things to note: > CFL lifetime has two ratings: the number of hours, and the number of starts. CFL’s can last a long time if you turn them on and leave them on. Put one in the bathroom or a closet, though, and they’ll burn out faster than an incandescent, at a much greater cost. Or, third option, you use halogens in those places where it’s quick off and on. > [@](#): > > Bulb makers tend to overinflate the “equivalent” efficiency ratings. A 23W CFL isn’t equivalent to a 100W incandescent; it’s really more like a 60W. Wrong. Some bulb makers inflate the value - not the efficiency rating, the correct value that should be given on the packaging is the lumen = output of light measured objectivly plus the Kelvin temp. = colour, that is subjective warmth of the light. Yes, some producers, esp. of cheap bulbs, print a higher number than actual measured on their packaging. That is not a fault of the CFL technology, though, but cheating in advertising or false labeling, that crops up in many other industries, too (food companies cheat with the size of the packages, car companies measure their mpg under lab conditions and not on the real road etc.) > [@](#): > > The bulbs get dimmer with use. By the time it starts flickering and telling you to replace it, it’s lost 50% of its luminous efficacy. You notice how dim the bulb is, so you upgrade it, switching out an 18W bulb for a 28. Do you have a cite for that? > [@](#): > > Of course, people are replacing their incandescents with bulbs that are bigger than the matching equivalents anyway, to make their homes brighter. First, if people have been limited by the capacity of the socket before and put in a brighter CFL, they are still saving electricity. E.g instead of a 100 W old bulb, they use a 40 W CFL (which is much brighter) they still save energy. > [@](#): > > The bulbs take time to “ramp up.” In rooms where you want light quickly (like a kitchen or bathroom), people are known to install multiple lights so they can have the light “right now.” There goes the savings! If people were smart instead of hell-bent on defying “laws that encroach their personal freedoms”, they would use Halogens for those places - quick light, still more efficient than the old time bulbs. > [@](#): > > The CRI (color accuracy) of CFL’s is abysmally low – 85 is typical. The CRI of incandescent bulbs is 100; the same as the sun. People notice this – the light doesn’t seem “right.” So what do they do? Why, they get bigger bulbs. Again, this is people being dumb or not getting a good salesperson at the lamp shop. The power output is not directly related to the Kelvin temp. Yes, as a rule, CFL tend to be a bit blueish, which is perceived colder, while old bulbs are yellowish or reddish. That doesn’t mean everybody dislikes this - for many people it’s better to have cold neutral white-blueish light when working. And for the sofa lamp, you can choose a CFL lamp with a different Kelvin temp = a more reddish or yellow tint. > [@](#): > > Where’s the savings? Wherever people get smart instead of cutting off their nose to spite their face. ---
**Author:** ![constanze](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f9ae1b/32.png) [@constanze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/constanze)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2012, 10:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/incandescent-bulbs/611645/53 "2012-02-06T10:07:48Z")
> [@HenryG](#): > > As well asignoring the benefits of heating from bulbs, enthusiasts (let’s be polite, eh?) ignore a couple of other aspects: > > - poor design of some of these new globes (more “shoulder” than incandescents) means they won’t fit existing bulb-holders, so there is the waste of throwing out the bulbs or throwing out your perfectly usable standard lamps Oh my god, are you serious? Instead of going to a proper lamp shop with a variety of more than 5 bulbs to choose from, you are going to throw out your lamps? WTF? There are quite enough bulb designs to choose from in the last 15 years, they no longer have the ugly and big design of the first generation. (Though I don’t benefit, because I got a dozen cheap way back then and now it takes ages till they are used up. Probably LED bulbs will be affordable when my CFL run out). > [@](#): > > - the claimed light output seems far less than from the incandescents they are supposed to replace. A new 15W is not comparable to the old 75W. To get the same output I need more like a 30W, so the running-cost saving are halved. Factor in the increased purchase cost and the econsomics aren’t compelling We’ve had this a dozen times already in previous threads: look at the lumen amount; look at the Kelvin temp.; even if you “only” halve the Watts, you still have 5-10 times the lifecycle. ---
**Author:** ![constanze](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f9ae1b/32.png) [@constanze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/constanze)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2012, 10:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/incandescent-bulbs/611645/54 "2012-02-06T10:14:54Z")
> [@drewder](#): > > I think we also have to take into account the dangers of CFLs that edison light bulbs don’t have. > > 1. a CFL contains mercury whch is very dangerous if the bulb breaks. That was mentioned by Cecil. Question: how often do you break your lamp? > [@](#): > > I suspect that the mercury mining process is pretty destructive to the environment but I can’t say for sure No, it’s the other way - mercury is used to mine for gold, poisioning rivers. And if you are a sensible person you bring the burned out CFL in for recycling, making it not a problem. Oh wait, I forget that even Cecil has a problem with recycling because it’s so much of a bother. > [@](#): > > 1. CFLs cause more migranes from those who get them. That’s news to me. Are we talking all CFLs here or the old-fashioned flickering neon tubes in offices in the 60s? ---
**Author:** ![constanze](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f9ae1b/32.png) [@constanze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/constanze)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2012, 10:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/incandescent-bulbs/611645/55 "2012-02-06T10:19:06Z")
> [@drewder](#): > > Really the enviromental issue is more of an afterthought for me. Having the mercury inside my house waiting to poison my family if someone drops a bulb is more my pressing concern. So breathing the air outside is not a problem, only when somebody drops a bulb. 1. How often do you drop bulbs? 2. Do you factor in that because of the longer lifespan, you have to change the CFL bulbs less often? 3. Do you have mercury thermometers lying around? 4. Do you eat fish containing mercury? > [@](#): > > Also CFLs give me headaches What kind of CFLs? Are you also bothered by flickering neon tubes in offices or public spaces? Have you looked at the new generation of CFLs? ---
**Author:** ![constanze](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f9ae1b/32.png) [@constanze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/constanze)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2012, 10:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/incandescent-bulbs/611645/56 "2012-02-06T10:20:23Z")
> [@av8rmike](#): > > Cecil’s assertion that “you’d be a fool not to use CFLs” also neglects people (like my girlfriend) who have vision problems. What kind of vision problems prevent CFL usage? ---
**Author:** ![constanze](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f9ae1b/32.png) [@constanze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/constanze)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2012, 10:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/incandescent-bulbs/611645/57 "2012-02-06T10:25:11Z")
> [@Blackfaer](#): > > What I noticed Cecil didn’t come up with is that for color-sensitive applications, or for applications where dimming is needed, fluorescents and LEDs have serious deficiencies compared to halogen or incandescents. At a guess, because Cecil was talking about the ordinary requirements of the average homeowner, not speciality uses; photographers, people who work with colours, or gardeners who need special UV lamps all already use very special bulbs. Those either won’t be affected or they will use halogen - which, as you yourself point out, has the same qualities as the old bulbs. ---
**Author:** ![constanze](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f9ae1b/32.png) [@constanze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/constanze)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2012, 10:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/incandescent-bulbs/611645/58 "2012-02-06T10:28:57Z")
> [@neuroman](#): > > The result is a _de facto_ ban, how you got there isn’t terribly important (in terms of effect to the consumer). How? For those special places: cold (outside); quick turn-on (bathrooms); dimmable; true colour - the consumer can use halogen with the same properties as incandescents (and same size and look) while saving 1/3 of previous energy. Unless the consumer wants to defy the all-intrusive state by stockpiling wasteful and inefficient incandescents. Rest assured, the eco-fascists won’t raid your home, and you can also buy them over the internet from other countries to waste money and power to your hearts content to make some point. ---
**Author:** ![constanze](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f9ae1b/32.png) [@constanze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/constanze)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2012, 11:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/incandescent-bulbs/611645/59 "2012-02-06T11:40:08Z")
> [@Cecil's column](#): > > Telling me I have to use them — production and import of conventional 100-watt incandescent bulbs were effectively banned January 1 — is a pointless intrusion on my personal rights. I’m disappointed in Cecil here: it sounds more like the rantings of a crotechy old guy than his usual fact style. All laws are intrusions on somebody’s personal rights, but without them, people couldn’t live together, and individuals wouldn’t be able to exercise their personal rights. Whether this particular law is “pointless” is a matter of opinion - is Cecil against seat-belt laws or new standards of efficiency for cars, too? As for the question how much is saved: true, overall it’s not much compared to bigger wasters, but it’s also a rather easy to legislate piece with little resistance from manufacturers. Compared to how much resistance from lobby groups, industry and consumers the big steps are going to cause, light bulbs can at least be achieved, so better a small something than nothing. ---
**Author:** ![Anthony\_Kaye](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ed8c4c/32.png) [@Anthony\_Kaye](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anthony_Kaye)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2012, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/incandescent-bulbs/611645/60 "2012-02-06T14:31:32Z")
> [@constanze](#): > > Unlike incandescent, which are always hot? Seriously? To get a CFL very hot, you need a rare failure; to get an incandescent hot, you switch it on. What’s more likely to start fires? > > Also, because the incandescent draws more load - 60 to 100W - compared to CFL - 9 W to 20 W - it’s more likely that something goes wrong with the wires, esp. in older houses, with old bulbs than with CFLs. It is quite easy to start a fire with an incandescent, but virtually impossible, I would guess, with a CFL. As I mentioned above, a 9W LED gets surprisingly hot- not the globe, but the ribbed metal base. Presumably this is to do with the electronics in the bulb stepping down the mains voltage to something manageable. It would be interesting to know if your LEDs, running off 110V, run cooler than ours off 240V. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/incandescent-bulbs/611645.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/incandescent-bulbs/611645.md?page=4)