# Incest is best **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 13, 2003, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/incest-is-best/174977 "2003-05-13T16:08:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Goodbeem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/958977/32.png) [@Goodbeem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Goodbeem)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2003, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/incest-is-best/174977/41 "2003-05-13T20:41:19Z")
And tanookie: that’s just horrible. I’m truly sorry ☹ ---
**Author:** ![tanookie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/48db29/32.png) [@tanookie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tanookie)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2003, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/incest-is-best/174977/42 "2003-05-13T20:42:33Z")
Tis ok samarm… I’m actually pretty well adjusted for someone who suffered through what happened to me. It would certainly make one hell of an “ask the” thread. I really didn’t want to delve too far past the incest part of my experience as I honestly did not want to hijack the thread but it seems to have happened anyway. ---
**Author:** ![Goodbeem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/958977/32.png) [@Goodbeem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Goodbeem)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2003, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/incest-is-best/174977/43 "2003-05-13T20:43:40Z")
damn! sorry 'bout that ---
**Author:** ![Pablito](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ed655f/32.png) [@Pablito](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pablito)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2003, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/incest-is-best/174977/44 "2003-05-13T20:58:49Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by samarm \* > \*\*Exactly. Incest AND child abuse. To define what she experienced using the term “incest” only was inaccurate. \*\* **samarm** –incomplete, yes; inaccurate, no. But I digress. The problem I had with your first post is that you sounded so pedantic rather than compassionate. To correct someone who’s just discussed a very personal, painful event because she didn’t use every available label, well, that struck me as pretty callous and seemed to miss the whole point, which was that some kinds of incest are in fact intrinsically evil. I still think you missed the bus with your response. Whatever. **on preview** oops. Sorry for continuing the hijack, but I wanted Samarm to know why I reacted negatively to his first post. Now he’s being all nice to Tanookie and my post is probably just taking us farther afield and not helping a bit. Sorry. Carry on. ---
**Author:** ![Goodbeem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/958977/32.png) [@Goodbeem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Goodbeem)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2003, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/incest-is-best/174977/45 "2003-05-13T21:16:36Z")
**If** there’s something very wrong with incest, then that holds IMO only for incest within the core family. Relationships between cousins are sometimes and sometimes not considered incest. AKAIC: go ahead, have a nice day, if you love each other, than all’s good and well. But siblings and parent/child, there appears to remain something wrong there, regardless of consent. Perhaps because of the hierarchy, the trust or the fact that you’ve grown up together. I don’t know for sure, but there seems to be a line there. Not? ---
**Author:** ![samarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/4da419/32.png) [@samarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samarm)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2003, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/incest-is-best/174977/46 "2003-05-13T21:19:29Z")
Having luckily never experienced anything as horrible as this, I can only give my humble opinion. I don’t know that you can necessarily say its worse if you are raped by a trusted person, but in general I think it probably is. Remember that some fathers have little or no relationship with their kids. Also, some abusers build up a trusting relationship with a child, and use it as a device to abuse them. They use the trust to try and make the child keep the abuse secret. I really don’t think this should be debated here, though. If someone were to start another thread then I’d be happy to continue the discussion there. Sorry if I initially came off as sounding offhand about tanookie’s experiences. I only wanted to clarify the difference between incest and father/child abuse. I think its important to keep the deinitions clear, otherwise the issue can become confused. ---
**Author:** ![Honeydew\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e19b73/32.png) [@Honeydew\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Honeydew_1)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2003, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/incest-is-best/174977/47 "2003-05-13T21:24:53Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by tanookie \* > **Oh sorry about the definition mistake samarm. It was not consensual sex but I have had the misfortune to have had sex with a relative so I considered the relationship incestual as well as abusive. Maybe the victim part is what is wrong?** You are a survivor **Tanookie** … you have gone on to live a good and healthy life with a loving husband and kids… you are, in every way, a survivor. ---
**Author:** ![tanookie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/48db29/32.png) [@tanookie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tanookie)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2003, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/incest-is-best/174977/48 "2003-05-13T21:28:15Z")
I’d say that if a sexual relationship sprouted up between a parent/child or sibling pair after all involved reached adulthood there would still be some kind of problem. IMO the people involved were unable to break away from the nuclear family and could possibly just be replaying the old familial dynamics but now with sex involved. Part of raising children, again IMO, is teaching them to grow up and leave the nest! Something has gone very wrong when sally grows up to displace mommy as daddy’s new wife. Even with siblings… I just can not imagine being with any of my brothers _ick_ Especially my little brother… I mean… I changed his diapers and took him to little league! ---
**Author:** ![ratatoskK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ratatoskk/32/2987_2.png) [@ratatoskK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ratatoskK)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2003, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/incest-is-best/174977/49 "2003-05-13T21:28:26Z")
from [dictionary.com](http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=incest) > [@](#): > > in·cest [Audio pronunciation of incest] ( P ) Pronunciation Key (nsst) > n. > > 1. Sexual relations between persons who are so closely related that their marriage is illegal or forbidden by custom. > 2. The statutory crime of sexual relations with such a near relative. ---
**Author:** ![Goodbeem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/958977/32.png) [@Goodbeem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Goodbeem)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2003, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/incest-is-best/174977/50 "2003-05-13T21:47:06Z")
Thanks **ratatoskK**. In order for incest to be a crime, it appears that there is no need for lack of consent. In order for it to be _wrong_, opinions could differ. Now, how to take this to GD? ---
**Author:** ![tanookie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/48db29/32.png) [@tanookie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tanookie)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2003, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/incest-is-best/174977/51 "2003-05-13T21:49:00Z")
Goodbeem, I think a kindly mod would have to move the thread to GD… that’s usually how I see it happen. ---
**Author:** ![Francis\_E\_Dec\_Esq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/48db29/32.png) [@Francis\_E\_Dec\_Esq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Francis_E_Dec_Esq)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2003, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/incest-is-best/174977/52 "2003-05-13T21:49:06Z")
I’ve read that the “icky” factor to sibling incest is clearly instinctual and not cultural-based. Children raised together will normally have no sexual attraction for each other. For instance, in some cultures that have arranged marriages they tried to raise the girl in the boy’s family, thinking that would be the best way to teach her to be a good wife for the boy. The result was that when the kids grew up they didn’t want each other. On the other hand, incestual relations between siblings is more common in siblings not raised together. Sorry. No cite. ---
**Author:** ![Goodbeem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/958977/32.png) [@Goodbeem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Goodbeem)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2003, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/incest-is-best/174977/53 "2003-05-13T21:59:21Z")
**tanookie** (and you spelled right :)), you’re right and I asked. Who wouldn’t want to be in GD? Hmm **Francis E Dec, Esq** what precisely is instinctual about having no sexual attraction for each other when raised together? To me, it would be more instinctual if I wouldn’t touch my “never seen, because removed-from-me-by-birth, but-still-gorgeous-and hyper-nymphomaniac twin sister” with a long stick. I can’t imagine that to be the case. Not sharing the same core-family background seems to me to be precisely the reason why there is not so much social pressure against cousins having a relationship. ---
**Author:** ![samarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/4da419/32.png) [@samarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samarm)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2003, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/incest-is-best/174977/54 "2003-05-13T22:12:13Z")
Sorry to be so nitpicky, Goodbeem, but where in that dictionary definition does it mention “consent”? It reads to me that it is only a crime where the law forbids _sexual relations_ or _marriage_ between close relatives. That one little word, “consent”, can mean the difference between rape and sexual relations. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Excellent](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f19dbf/32.png) [@Mr.Excellent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Excellent)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2003, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/incest-is-best/174977/55 "2003-05-13T22:19:07Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Pablito \* > \*\ ***samarm** –get a clue, and fix your spelling while you’re at it > > As for the OP: I don’t find anything ‘wrong’ with incest between consenting adults, but it would make me question their social skills and sounds pretty icky. > That said, first cousin incest doesn’t bother me a bit. In fact, I’ve got a few first cousins who are super attractive and the thought has crossed my mind many times (not that I think I’d ever act on it, even if they were available). > And think of all the money we’d save on Hallmark’s ‘grandparent’s day’. \*\* Dude! No! There’s no “think” - they’re first cousins! No! Sick! I’m an intelligent adult, honest. really. ---
**Author:** ![SPOOFE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c5a1d2/32.png) [@SPOOFE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SPOOFE)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2003, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/incest-is-best/174977/56 "2003-05-13T22:21:42Z")
I would not fuck my sister. That’s as far as my opinion on incest goes. ---
**Author:** ![Goodbeem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/958977/32.png) [@Goodbeem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Goodbeem)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2003, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/incest-is-best/174977/57 "2003-05-13T22:22:01Z")
quoting myself shamelessly: > [@](#): > > In order for incest to be a crime, it appears that there is no need for lack of consent. In order for it to be wrong, opinions could differ In what way do we differ on this, **samarm**? I stated that in order for incest to be a crime, there is **no need for lack of consent**. To me, it seems, we agree on this. Or am I whooshed? The “for it to be wrong” part was meant to addres what people find particularly icky about it. This is, arguably, not **only** because it is a crime. ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2003, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/incest-is-best/174977/58 "2003-05-13T22:25:57Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Francis E Dec, Esq \* > \*\*I’ve read that the “icky” factor to sibling incest is clearly instinctual and not cultural-based. Children raised together will normally have no sexual attraction for each other. > > On the other hand, incestual relations between siblings is more common in siblings not raised together. > \*\* These both sound dubious. I’ve never seen any reference to an aversion to incest outside of humans. ---
**Author:** ![Goodbeem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/958977/32.png) [@Goodbeem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Goodbeem)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2003, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/incest-is-best/174977/59 "2003-05-13T22:26:12Z")
Perhaps beter put: consent doesn’t come into the equation; incest with consent is just as much a crime as without it. At least, that’s how I would read the definition. ---
**Author:** ![Surreal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/eada6e/32.png) [@Surreal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Surreal)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2003, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/incest-is-best/174977/60 "2003-05-13T22:34:29Z")
**SimonX** , the theory that incest avoidance is instinctual in humans is called the Westermarck Effect ([http://www.humanevolution.net/a/incest.html](http://www.humanevolution.net/a/incest.html)). [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/incest-is-best/174977.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/incest-is-best/174977.md?page=4)