# Inching forward at traffic lights **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [December 28, 2008, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/inching-forward-at-traffic-lights/478983 "2008-12-28T18:31:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2008, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/inching-forward-at-traffic-lights/478983/21 "2008-12-28T20:36:49Z")
And if you pull all the way out and the light changes before you can turn, then you’re now blocking traffic coming the other way. Show me the statute that says you’re supposed to do that. ---
**Author:** ![Q.E.D](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/51bf81/32.png) [@Q.E.D](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Q.E.D)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2008, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/inching-forward-at-traffic-lights/478983/22 "2008-12-28T20:42:06Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Show me the statute that says you’re supposed to do that. If you’ll accept a generality (obviously statutes can, and do, vary among states), [here](http://www.johncletheroe.org/usa_can/driving/left.htm) > [@](#): > > In some states it is legal to enter an intersection in order to make a left turn and then wait in the intersection until there is a gap in the traffic in the opposite direction, or the traffic lights change to red and stop the traffic in the opposite direction, subject to the following two conditions: > > ``` > * If there is a traffic light then it must be green (either a green circle or a green arrow). If there is a separate signal for left turns then that signal applies. You must never enter an intersection for any reason on a red light. > > * The road into which you are turning must be clear. You must not enter an intersection for any reason if the traffic in the road you are entering is backed up to the intersection. > > ``` > > This rule seems to vary from state to state. For example, the Oct-98 printed edition of the Illinois Driver’s Manual “Rules Of The Road” says: “If you enter an intersection when the light is green, you may finish your turn even though the light turns red” (Chapter Three: Traffic Laws - Right-Of-Way). > > On the other hand the California Driver Handbook 2002 (external link verified Jul-02) says: “Do not enter an intersection, even when the light is green, unless you can get completely across before the light turns red. If you block the intersection, you can be cited.” (Laws And Rules Of The Road - Traffic Control At Intersections; checked Jul-02). So, there you have it. Often you can; sometimes you can’t. I think it’s actually allowed in most states, but I’m not going to search through all 50 states’ traffic codes. ---
**Author:** ![Jayn\_Newell](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Jayn\_Newell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jayn_Newell)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2008, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/inching-forward-at-traffic-lights/478983/23 "2008-12-28T20:42:25Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > And if you pull all the way out and the light changes before you can turn then THAT’S WHEN YOU TURN. If traffic is heavy and there’s no flashing green or green arrow at that intersection, you HAVE to do this to get through at all. And only one car gets through on a green even when doing this. ---
**Author:** ![Critical\_Mass](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f1d935/32.png) [@Critical\_Mass](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Critical_Mass)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2008, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/inching-forward-at-traffic-lights/478983/24 "2008-12-28T20:44:12Z")
Enter the intersection. Safely complete left turn when appropriate break in traffic permits. If light turns amber, opposite direction traffic will stop. You complete left turn as soon as it is safe. Cross traffic will wait for you to clear intersection. That’s a fundamental part of driving in these here parts. If drivers can’t get that part down, they ought not to drive here. Maybe traffic laws are different where you are. ---
**Author:** ![Casserole](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b77776/32.png) [@Casserole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Casserole)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2008, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/inching-forward-at-traffic-lights/478983/25 "2008-12-28T20:44:48Z")
Hong Kong also lights up the amber during the “go” cycle. As for inching forward, my theory is that it is another form of the condition where people press an elevator button repeatedly in an attempt to make the elevator arrive sooner. ---
**Author:** ![ZenBeam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/3ab097/32.png) [@ZenBeam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZenBeam)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2008, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/inching-forward-at-traffic-lights/478983/26 "2008-12-28T21:29:37Z")
[QUOTE=Q.E.D.] So, there you have it. Often you can; sometimes you can’t. I think it’s actually allowed in most states, but I’m not going to search through all 50 states’ traffic codes. [/QUOTE] What’s Canada, chopped liver? 🙂 In [Saskatchewan, Canada](http://www.saskschools.ca/curr_content/drivered/sgi/pdf_files/traffic_signs_from_sgi_drivershandbook_2001.pdf): > [@](#): > > If you want to turn left you can enter the intersection on a green > light, but you must yield to oncoming traffic and pedestrians. If > traffic is heavy, you may be forced to complete your turn on an > amber or red light. ---
**Author:** ![Q.E.D](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/51bf81/32.png) [@Q.E.D](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Q.E.D)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2008, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/inching-forward-at-traffic-lights/478983/27 "2008-12-28T21:31:36Z")
> [@ZenBeam](#): > > What’s Canada, chopped liver? Well…yeah. 😛 Actually, since I’ve never lived there (or even visited briefly) I feel neither qualified nor comfortable speaking for Canadian law. I leave that to you hosers, eh. ---
**Author:** ![Red\_Barchetta](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/da6949/32.png) [@Red\_Barchetta](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Red_Barchetta)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2008, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/inching-forward-at-traffic-lights/478983/28 "2008-12-28T21:47:58Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Block intersections? I don’t think so. Oh, so you’re the guy backing up the left turn lane for miles! ---
**Author:** ![Critical\_Mass](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f1d935/32.png) [@Critical\_Mass](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Critical_Mass)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2008, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/inching-forward-at-traffic-lights/478983/29 "2008-12-28T21:58:13Z")
> [@ZenBeam](#): > > What’s Canada, chopped liver? 🙂 In [Saskatchewan, Canada](http://www.saskschools.ca/curr_content/drivered/sgi/pdf_files/traffic_signs_from_sgi_drivershandbook_2001.pdf): Which is similar to the rules I indicated in post #24. Similar because I’m in Manitoba (also in Canada) (beside Saskatchewan)\*. Similar, because we lent them our driver’s handbook so they could copy it. - I have to point that out, because Saskatchewan is bad at geography. What’s the saying? Saskatchewan. Hard to spell. Easy to draw. Of course, I’m kidding.😉 ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2008, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/inching-forward-at-traffic-lights/478983/30 "2008-12-28T22:11:49Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Basically because people are impatient, entitled, self-absorbed 5-year-olds who can’t stand to wait their turn for anything. I think you’re being too harsh. I really think it’s just a form of fidgetiness (inching forward at traffic lights). ---
**Author:** ![Vlad\_Igor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/7feea3/32.png) [@Vlad\_Igor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Vlad_Igor)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2008, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/inching-forward-at-traffic-lights/478983/31 "2008-12-28T22:16:11Z")
> [@jjimm](#): > > I used to have the same problem in Oxford - I had a fibreglass kit car on a Mini subframe. … It seems that the UK is one of the only countries in the world for the lights to go Red, Red/Amber, Green. Not even Ireland does it. No idea why they don’t do it - I think our system is more sensible. I, too, had the same problem when I used to ride my bike around a college town, respecting the traffic lights. I couldn’t trip the left turn sensor (right turn for those in the UK), so I nailed a doughnut-shaped magnet to the end of a sawed off broom handle that was velcroed to my bike. I would wave the magnet over the sensor wire and would get a green turn light at the next cycle. It was also useful for swinging at unleashed dogs that decided to chase me. I like the idea of red-amber-green cycle when I would have a red light, but it wouldn’t work here. To paraphrase the alien in the movie Starman: “Red means stop, green means go and yellow means drive faster.” We would have a rash of T-bone accidents because the people at a red would take off at the amber signal at the same time the other traffic would be (regularly) running the amber signal when it was green a moment before. At least around here, we tend to immediately exert our right-of-way on a green light despite the concurrent actions of the idiot in the process of running their red light. Vlad/Igor ---
**Author:** ![Alienhand](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8edcca/32.png) [@Alienhand](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alienhand)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2008, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/inching-forward-at-traffic-lights/478983/32 "2008-12-28T22:25:11Z")
> [@Vlad\_Igor](#): > > I like the idea of red-amber-green cycle when I would have a red light, but it wouldn’t work here. A lot of pedestrian crossing signals in the US have a countdown for walk on green crossings now, just look to left or right and you can time it , if you were so inclined. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Q.E.D](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/51bf81/32.png) [@Q.E.D](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Q.E.D)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2008, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/inching-forward-at-traffic-lights/478983/33 "2008-12-28T22:28:38Z")
> [@Alienhand](#): > > A lot of pedestrian crossing signals in the US have a countdown for walk on green crossings now, just look to left or right and you can time it , if you were so inclined. 🙂 Yeah, I see that around here, mostly in the college district. Apparently, VCU students are less patient than most people. ---
**Author:** ![elfkin477](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/a9a28c/32.png) [@elfkin477](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elfkin477)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2008, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/inching-forward-at-traffic-lights/478983/34 "2008-12-28T22:45:06Z")
> [@Jayn\_Newell](#): > > then THAT’S WHEN YOU TURN. If traffic is heavy and there’s no flashing green or green arrow at that intersection, you HAVE to do this to get through at all. And only one car gets through on a green even when doing this. Hmm. Like Diogenes the Cynic, I’ve never read anything close to it being legal to do this. The wording of Q.E.D.'s cite, “some states,” implies that law is probably in only a minority of states, or else it would say “many states” or “most states,” wouldn’t it? ---
**Author:** ![Ponch8](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ponch8/32/9883_2.png) [@Ponch8](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ponch8)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2008, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/inching-forward-at-traffic-lights/478983/35 "2008-12-28T22:56:07Z")
I used to have a Camaro where you had to press really hard on the brake pedal in order to keep it stopped at a stoplight. If I let up even a little, the car would inch forward. At long lights, I’d just put the car in neutral. (It was an automatic transmission.) ---
**Author:** ![brewha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/91b2a8/32.png) [@brewha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brewha)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2008, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/inching-forward-at-traffic-lights/478983/36 "2008-12-28T23:01:59Z")
If you are more than half way through an intersection when the light turns red, you’re legal. If you pull half way through while the light is green, you wait til oncoming traffic stops and proceed through. You’re already more than half way - it’s legal for the first car. Maybe legal for the second. There’s about a 5sec gap between one light turning red and the other turning green. That is the window to proceed. ETA, as far as the inching goes. Read **Chefguy’s** post (#6) for my exact opinion. ---
**Author:** ![Q.E.D](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/51bf81/32.png) [@Q.E.D](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Q.E.D)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2008, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/inching-forward-at-traffic-lights/478983/37 "2008-12-28T23:20:44Z")
> [@Ponch8](#): > > I used to have a Camaro where you had to press really hard on the brake pedal in order to keep it stopped at a stoplight. If I let up even a little, the car would inch forward. At long lights, I’d just put the car in neutral. (It was an automatic transmission.) Your idle speed was set way too high. ---
**Author:** ![Rysto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ecccb3/32.png) [@Rysto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rysto)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2008, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/inching-forward-at-traffic-lights/478983/38 "2008-12-28T23:26:45Z")
> [@Musicat](#): > > Since I travel by motorcycle in the summer, if I arrive as the first vehicle at a sensor, I try to get the following vehicle to move up closer, since my motorcycle won’t trigger the sensor. If they don’t, neither of us will get across. The sensors are supposed to be sensitive enough to pick up bicycles, let alone motorcycles. On a high school field trip I went to the city’s central control hub for all of the traffic lights in the city. They had a sledgehammer on one of those sensors and it could detect it no problem. I’m not sure how being buried underneath asphalt changes things, though. ---
**Author:** ![Vlad\_Igor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/7feea3/32.png) [@Vlad\_Igor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Vlad_Igor)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2008, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/inching-forward-at-traffic-lights/478983/39 "2008-12-28T23:35:40Z")
> [@Alienhand](#): > > A lot of pedestrian crossing signals in the US have a countdown for walk on green crossings now, just look to left or right and you can time it , if you were so inclined. 🙂 They’ve put those in on several of the intersections I drive through to get to work. I gotta tell you, they have helped me not run yellow lights because I know exactly how much time I have left. If I know I can’t make it all the way through the intersection before the count hits 0, I won’t try. Vlad/Igor ---
**Author:** ![Q.E.D](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/51bf81/32.png) [@Q.E.D](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Q.E.D)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2008, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/inching-forward-at-traffic-lights/478983/40 "2008-12-28T23:42:06Z")
> [@Rysto](#): > > The sensors are supposed to be sensitive enough to pick up bicycles, let alone motorcycles The sensitivity of the detector loops is adjustable. With sensors in multiple traffic lanes, large-vehicle traffic can cause false triggering on adjacent lanes. Some sensors are equipped with secondary loops, smaller, but more sensitive, than the main loop but far enough away from adjacent lanes to avoid the false-triggering problem. These bicycle-friendly sensors will generally have a marking on the roadway so that bicyclists know where to stop their bikes at a red light in order to trigger the sensor. Even with standard single- and double-loop sensors, you can often successfully trigger them, if you know the tricks. Many sensor installations can be clearly seen by the thin lines cut into the pavement. The most sensitive part of the loop is directly over it; for double loops, the central line where both loops pass is the sweet spot. if that doesn’t work, laying your bike down directly on top of the sensor increases the metal mass close to the sensor and can help trigger it. > [@Rysto](#): > > I’m not sure how being buried underneath asphalt changes things, though. Not all that much. The loops are typically buried only a few inches below the road surface and the pavement material has no more of an attenuating effect than the same thickness of air. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/inching-forward-at-traffic-lights/478983.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/inching-forward-at-traffic-lights/478983.md?page=3)