# Inching forward at traffic lights **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [December 28, 2008, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/inching-forward-at-traffic-lights/478983 "2008-12-28T18:31:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Brynda](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e79b87/32.png) [@Brynda](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brynda)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2008, 5:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/inching-forward-at-traffic-lights/478983/61 "2008-12-29T05:30:44Z")
> [@Sailboat](#): > > I see a variation on this. People sometimes stop waaaaay short of where they should, allowing 2-3 car lengths between them and the car in front. These people seem to intend to come to a full stop that far back, and there they stay. > > At first. > > Then, once everyone has filled in behind them, they roll forward a car length or so and stop again. > > Laboriously, everyone else puts there cars back into drive and rolls forward. > > Then this person does it again, closing up the last of the space. > > Once again, everyone either rolls forward instead of adjusting the radio or whatever they’ve been waiting for a red light to tackle. Or they stay put and let a stupid-looking gap open in front of them. > > I don’t understand why people do this. Don’t play their evil games. Leave the gap–it won’t hurt you. My husband and I call this “stoplight creep.” When we see someone do it, one of us will say “crrrrreeeeppp” and we try to guess how many times the offender will do it before the light turns green. I think the most we have seen is six creeps. Why, yes, we are bored, why do you ask? ---
**Author:** ![dangermom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e274bd/32.png) [@dangermom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dangermom)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2008, 6:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/inching-forward-at-traffic-lights/478983/62 "2008-12-29T06:40:42Z")
> [@Musicat](#): > > Then you should be ecstatic about this newfangled invention called a “CD player”. It fits in the car dash! Amazing! No fadeouts in tunnels! Better than an 8-track! A 4-track even! A 2-track?! 😃 Yeah, they are really cool, I agree. Sadly the one in my van died a couple of years ago. I do have one at home though, and sometimes I even use it! ---
**Author:** ![Santo\_Rugger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e95f7d/32.png) [@Santo\_Rugger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Santo_Rugger)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2008, 7:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/inching-forward-at-traffic-lights/478983/63 "2008-12-29T07:30:21Z")
> [@Musicat](#): > > Since I travel by motorcycle in the summer, if I arrive as the first vehicle at a sensor, I try to get the following vehicle to move up closer, since my motorcycle won’t trigger the sensor. If they don’t, neither of us will get across. I’ll do this, too. I’ll watch for the traffic coming up behind me. When it stops, I’ll drive into the crosswalk (assuming no pedestrians), turn my head over my right shoulder, and use my right hand to wave them closer to me. 99% of the time they seem to know why I’m doing it. On the other hand, I _hate_ when people stop in the crosswalk, and then the sensor doesn’t trigger because they’ve already passed it. :smack: > [@Inner\_Stickler](#): > > My driver’s ed instructor called it legally establishing yourself in the intersection. I think mine called it engaging the light. I’m wondering where those who don’t do this drive. There are numerous intersections I drive through daily that don’t have protected left turns, and that the oncoming traffic is frequent enough that there is _always_ somebody going through the intersection when their light is green. ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2008, 10:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/inching-forward-at-traffic-lights/478983/64 "2008-12-29T10:13:39Z")
So you California people: What do you do when you have to turn left, there isn’t a separate turning arrow, and there’s never a gap in the oncoming traffic? Do you just sit there for hours? Do you just forget about turning and go someplace else? Do you leave your car there, then come back at maybe 3 a.m. when the traffic is lighter? This is truly baffling. ---
**Author:** ![Red\_Barchetta](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/da6949/32.png) [@Red\_Barchetta](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Red_Barchetta)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2008, 10:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/inching-forward-at-traffic-lights/478983/65 "2008-12-29T10:41:05Z")
> [@panache45](#): > > So you California people: What do you do when you have to turn left, there isn’t a separate turning arrow, and there’s never a gap in the oncoming traffic? Do you just sit there for hours? Do you just forget about turning and go someplace else? Do you leave your car there, then come back at maybe 3 a.m. when the traffic is lighter? This is truly baffling. From what I’ve seen of my time in the Bay Area, everyone waits in the intersection and turns left, as would logically be expected. I have not heard of anyone being pulled over for such a maneuver. ---
**Author:** ![Rick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9f8e36/32.png) [@Rick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2008, 12:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/inching-forward-at-traffic-lights/478983/66 "2008-12-29T12:17:10Z")
> [@panache45](#): > > So you California people: What do you do when you have to turn left, there isn’t a separate turning arrow, and there’s never a gap in the oncoming traffic? Do you just sit there for hours? Do you just forget about turning and go someplace else? Do you leave your car there, then come back at maybe 3 a.m. when the traffic is lighter? This is truly baffling. Light turns green, you pull into the intersection and wait for the either a gap in traffic (happens sometimes!) or for the light to turn red. When the people headed toward you are done running the red light (a totally separate rant) you complete your turn. Anyone who has crossed over the the limit line is considered in the intersection, and can legally complete the turn to clear the intersection before the cross traffic starts moving. Depending on the size of the intersection this means that 2 or 3 can turn left with each light cycle at the busiest intersections during the heaviest traffic. ---
**Author:** ![MannyL](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba8739/32.png) [@MannyL](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MannyL)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2008, 1:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/inching-forward-at-traffic-lights/478983/67 "2008-12-29T13:01:58Z")
In NJ you can turn left onto a one way street during a red light ---
**Author:** ![Pocito](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/f04885/32.png) [@Pocito](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pocito)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2008, 1:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/inching-forward-at-traffic-lights/478983/68 "2008-12-29T13:25:48Z")
> [@Chefguy](#): > > People do it here, also. And everyone behind them, like good little sheep, inches up to close the small gap. I don’t do it out of plain stubborness, and have actually had the person behind me honk his horn because I wasn’t moving up two feet. Idiots all. This cracks me up because I have the same problem where I live. I refuse to ride my brakes for two-and-a-half minutes, and the guy behind me freaks out. Who wants to get that much closer to stopped traffic? I liken it to people who squeeze so close in an amusement park line that our bodies are touching. Bleh. ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2008, 2:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/inching-forward-at-traffic-lights/478983/69 "2008-12-29T14:05:49Z")
> [@Vlad\_Igor](#): > > I like the idea of red-amber-green cycle when I would have a red light, but it wouldn’t work here. To paraphrase the alien in the movie Starman: “Red means stop, green means go and yellow means drive faster.” We would have a rash of T-bone accidents because the people at a red would take off at the amber signal at the same time the other traffic would be (regularly) running the amber signal when it was green a moment before. Where’s “here”? In the UK, the Red/Amber combination does not coincide with the Amber on the stopping side - there’s buffer time. It’s like this: Red | Red Red/Amber | Red Green | Red Amber | Red Red | Red Red | Red/Amber Red | Green Red | Amber Etc. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2008, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/inching-forward-at-traffic-lights/478983/70 "2008-12-29T14:50:44Z")
> [@MannyL](#): > > In NJ you can turn left onto a one way street during a red light You can do that here, too - left onto a one-way street from a one-way street during a red light. You can’t, however, do it from the middle lane if it is a dual turn. This confuses people mightily, but there is a triple left turn at one intersection in town, and I swear it almost makes people’s heads explode (just as an example of things that drivers should be able to handle but still can’t seem to). I used to work at a job where you could look down on that intersection (the T in front of Gulf Square for you Albertans), and watch all the people losing their minds. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![ZenBeam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/3ab097/32.png) [@ZenBeam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZenBeam)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2008, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/inching-forward-at-traffic-lights/478983/71 "2008-12-29T15:29:04Z")
> [@panache45](#): > > So you California people: What do you do when you have to turn left, there isn’t a separate turning arrow, and there’s never a gap in the oncoming traffic? Do you just sit there for hours? Do you just forget about turning and go someplace else? Do you leave your car there, then come back at maybe 3 a.m. when the traffic is lighter? This is truly baffling. I lived there in the Bay Area for nine years, until about ten years ago. I always pulled into the intersection, and never noticed that many others didn’t, so I was surprised by **Q.E.D.**'s link. I think **Rick** ’s interpretation is correct that it means the road you’re (planning on) turning into needs to be open for you to be able to complete your turn when traffic clears, not that traffic is clear at the moment. Can anyone find any unambiguous support for **Diogenes the Cynic** ’s position for any state or province? **jjimm** , are we to interpret your chart that the amber preceding the green always also has the red light lit? ---
**Author:** ![GorillaMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/50afbb/32.png) [@GorillaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GorillaMan)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2008, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/inching-forward-at-traffic-lights/478983/72 "2008-12-29T17:00:24Z")
> [@ZenBeam](#): > > **jjimm** , are we to interpret your chart that the amber preceding the green always also has the red light lit? No. A single set goes through the following phases: Red Red+Amber Green Amber Red Etc. However, I dispute what **jjimm** says, that there’s always a slight overlap of the red phases of two sets - it’s something which is varied according to the specific requirements of the location, and in plenty of cases the change to red on one set coincides with the change to red+amber on the other. One added advantage of the red+amber phase is having two _changes_ indicating the switch from ‘stop’ to ‘go’, helping avoid cases of dozy drivers staying stationary at a green light. ---
**Author:** ![ZenBeam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/3ab097/32.png) [@ZenBeam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZenBeam)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2008, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/inching-forward-at-traffic-lights/478983/73 "2008-12-29T17:10:49Z")
> [@GorillaMan](#): > > > [@ZenBeam](#): > > > > jjimm, are we to interpret your chart that the amber preceding the green always also has the red light lit? > > No. :dubious: OK, so what do you mean by Red + Amber, if it’s not “the amber preceding the green always also has the red light lit”? That’s the only thing I can think of. ---
**Author:** ![Lobsang](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobsang/32/4067_2.png) [@Lobsang](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobsang)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2008, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/inching-forward-at-traffic-lights/478983/74 "2008-12-29T17:26:37Z")
As far as I can remember the Red light stays lit for a moment when the amber light comes on, then both go off and the green comes on . That’s for the go cycle. For the stop cycle the amber comes on, but the red doesn’t. Then the red comes on and the amber goes off. If it’s a filter you can get a flashing amber - which is when you **can** inch forward off the line in the UK (you’re waiting for it to be clear for you to make your move) ---
**Author:** ![Q.E.D](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/51bf81/32.png) [@Q.E.D](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Q.E.D)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2008, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/inching-forward-at-traffic-lights/478983/75 "2008-12-29T17:29:22Z")
> [@ZenBeam](#): > > Can anyone find any unambiguous support for **Diogenes the Cynic** ’s position for any state or province? That would be **Dio** ’s job. Personally, I have no interest in merely proving him less wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Rick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9f8e36/32.png) [@Rick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2008, 4:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/inching-forward-at-traffic-lights/478983/76 "2008-12-30T04:04:13Z")
> [@Q.E.D](#): > > That would be **Dio** ’s job. Personally, I have no interest in merely proving him less wrong. Would you settle for one that proves him wrong? From the [Minn Driver’s License Manual](http://www.dps.state.mn.us/dvs/DLTraining/DLManual/PDF/2008ClassD/08%20Chap3%20FINAL.pdf)(PDF) on page 25 of chapter 3 we find this quote > [@](#): > > When waiting to make a left turn at a green traffc light with oncoming traffic, position the car into the intersection where your body appears even with the curb line. The only opportunity to make a left turn may occur when the green light changes to yellow. So if the driver’s manual tells you specifically to pull into the intersection and wait, it must be legal where **Dio** lives. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2008, 5:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/inching-forward-at-traffic-lights/478983/77 "2008-12-30T05:53:36Z")
It says only pull your body even with the curb. I’m talking about people who go all the way across to the other lane and camp out there. ---
**Author:** ![GorillaMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/50afbb/32.png) [@GorillaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GorillaMan)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2008, 11:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/inching-forward-at-traffic-lights/478983/78 "2008-12-30T11:12:57Z")
> [@ZenBeam](#): > > :dubious: > > OK, so what do you mean by Red + Amber, if it’s not “the amber preceding the green always also has the red light lit”? That’s the only thing I can think of. Sorry, my misreading. Yes, ‘Red + Amber’ is when the amber comes on in addition to the red. ---
**Author:** ![Rick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9f8e36/32.png) [@Rick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2008, 11:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/inching-forward-at-traffic-lights/478983/79 "2008-12-30T11:47:10Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > It says only pull your body even with the curb. I’m talking about people who go all the way across to the other lane and camp out there. **Dio** I am reminded of the joke about the guy who asks the girl if she would sleep with him for $1,000,000 dollars. She says sure. So then he says how about $10? She says what kind of girl do you think I am? He replies, we have already established that, now we are just haggling over price. If the handbook says to pull into the intersection, then it is legal to do so, now we are just haggling over how far is OK. So it is now up to you to provide a cite that says pulling all the way into the intersection is against the law. Unless you can provide that, we can only assume that it is legal in your state. ---
**Author:** ![trex0saurus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/85f322/32.png) [@trex0saurus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/trex0saurus)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2019, 8:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/inching-forward-at-traffic-lights/478983/80 "2019-07-18T08:56:25Z")
> [@Ponch8](#): > > I used to have a Camaro where you had to press really hard on the brake pedal in order to keep it stopped at a stoplight. If I let up even a little, the car would inch forward. At long lights, I’d just put the car in neutral. (It was an automatic transmission.) sounds like a bad brake booster [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/inching-forward-at-traffic-lights/478983.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/inching-forward-at-traffic-lights/478983.md?page=5)