# Incidents of overt racism in everyday life **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [June 19, 2017, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/incidents-of-overt-racism-in-everyday-life/789382 "2017-06-19T17:21:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2017, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/incidents-of-overt-racism-in-everyday-life/789382/61 "2017-06-20T14:44:20Z")
> [@Orwell](#): > > A little of both. The Beatles are the most famous musical act of the last century, and everyone knows they are all white. How could it possibly be racist to refer to “jungle music” in reference to the Beatles? Because “jungle music” was exactly how racists used to refer to rock ‘n’ roll music, which they thought was too intertwined with black culture (and also because of the heavy emphasis on drums\*). It’s also been used in reference to rap or hip-hop music. Did you not know that? Frankly, though, if I heard someone referring to the Beatles as “jungle music” now I’d wonder if they’d fallen through a wormhole from 1965 because wow, that’s dated. It was already self-parodying by the time Archie Bunker was spouting such stuff in the early 1970s. And it’s my observation that some people go out of their way to assume that accusations of racism are due to oversensitivity rather than actual racism, and analyze every comment and situation through that prism. ---
**Author:** ![Machine\_Elf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/82dd89/32.png) [@Machine\_Elf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machine_Elf)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2017, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/incidents-of-overt-racism-in-everyday-life/789382/62 "2017-06-20T15:09:15Z")
> [@Orwell](#): > > And the corollary is that people who look for racism find it everywhere at all times. It must be exhausting to find/notice/imagine/construct racism all day, every day. Best example ever: [Racist Surgical Scars](http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/man-bears-surgical-scars-racist-kkk-lettering-article-1.1082216) ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2017, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/incidents-of-overt-racism-in-everyday-life/789382/63 "2017-06-20T16:49:45Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Wow – I remember you sharing this anecdote the first year I joined the SD. > > Time flies. > > But it was actually the Black Intelligence Test of Cultural Homogeneity. 🙂 Hey, pretty good memory! Yes, that was the official revised version. I was quoting from the earlier guerrilla version. I bought an anthology of African-American writing in 1976 where I read that. I haven’t been able to track down the title of that book, but this is a version of the test named the “[Dove Counter Balance Test](https://books.google.com/books?id=25AaGpyRnE8C&lpg=PA129&ots=MpkbWiixvf&dq=%22do%20the%20beatles%20have%20soul%22&pg=PA126#v=onepage&q&f=false)” that includes the unsoulful Beatles. As for the more confrontational title, I definitely remember it was a thing; I could not have made that up myself. ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2017, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/incidents-of-overt-racism-in-everyday-life/789382/64 "2017-06-20T17:16:33Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > As an African American, I can tell you that I’ve never in my life set foot in a “jungle”. > > Jazz did not originate in a jungle. > Neither did gospel, blues, soul, rock and roll, or hip hop. > > Not unless we’re talking about a jungle made out of concrete. Roots of African-American music (e.g. the pentatonic minor scale, which is the skeleton of the blues) have been traced to [Mali](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Mali_map_of_K%C3%B6ppen_climate_classification.svg), which is grasslands, Sahel, and desert. No jungle at all there. “Stop playing that confounded [Sahel music](https://youtu.be/r4-uq8cTF7o)!” doesn’t have the same ring. But it is the truth. What **jtur88** imagines is quite far from the truth. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2017, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/incidents-of-overt-racism-in-everyday-life/789382/65 "2017-06-20T17:24:44Z")
> [@Omega\_Glory](#): > > It surprises me too. I don’t think it’s an obscure term. I’m 55 years old and don’t recall hearing the term “jungle music” in any context. But I don’t get out much. Nonetheless, it did sound racist to me when I read the OP. ---
**Author:** ![holmes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e95f7d/32.png) [@holmes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/holmes)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2017, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/incidents-of-overt-racism-in-everyday-life/789382/66 "2017-06-20T17:26:27Z")
How [Mr. Cleary](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2dJDJZSXe-8) refers to the popular music of his students’ generation. ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2017, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/incidents-of-overt-racism-in-everyday-life/789382/67 "2017-06-20T17:34:27Z")
> [@digs](#): > > Fifty some posts later and i’m still wondering how overwhelmingly racist you’d have to be to call the Beatles “jungle music”. > > Reminds me of my fundie pastor railing against “Satanic Rock and Roll!” (right in my face, I guess he grabbed the first “youngster” he could find after the service), and he rears back and says “As practiced by bands like the Eagles!” I started laughing, covered that by a coughing fit, and had to leave before I started mocking him: “The Eagles? What about Megadeth?” And quoting lyrics from the “Satanic Panic” of the 80s (this was 1982). Oo, oo, stupid pastor, see how low he dives. Oo, oo, stupid pastor got no sense, he just jives. ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2017, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/incidents-of-overt-racism-in-everyday-life/789382/68 "2017-06-20T17:57:57Z")
My grandparents. Not the KKK ones; those are both dead. My, er, for lack of a better word, politely racist grandparents who seem oblivious to the fact that they are racists. (By politely I mean they would never say the ‘‘n-word.’’ I don’t think racism can ever really be polite.) I am sitting with them at a restaurant in Ann Arbor, Michigan, my old stomping ground. If you haven’t been there, it’s about as racially and ethnically diverse and embracing of liberal cultural values as Michigan gets. We are on campus, surrounded by youthful students of all colors, and I am feeling old. My grandmother is updating me on my now teenage cousins in a perfectly audible voice. “He was on the basketball team, but you know, then they closed down the local black school, the team has been destroyed by all these hooligan black kids joining. They spend more time on the bench than playing the game.” It’s not that this is totally unlike her, in fact it’s very like her, and quite a common sentiment in the cesspool that is Jackson, Michigan. But the fact that she had the obliviousness to say it in \*Ann Arbor \* just really blew my mind. I’ve called them out on their racist shit before. My grandmother gets defensive, my grandfather is amused as hell at her defensiveness, and that’s pretty much how it goes. So in this case, I just changed the subject. See also: ‘‘Black people are ruining the community pool with their hair goop.’’ ---
**Author:** ![FloatyGimpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/floatygimpy/32/7750_2.png) [@FloatyGimpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FloatyGimpy)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2017, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/incidents-of-overt-racism-in-everyday-life/789382/69 "2017-06-20T19:52:25Z")
Had an incident a couple of days ago. I go walking every day in a provincial park that also has a campground. Walking through the woods I came across a man attempting to cut down a small tree for firewood. I told him he’s not allowed to do that and has to get wood from the park ranger who will come around with his truck. The guy didn’t say much and started chopping again shortly after I left. I met his girlfriend coming down the path with a saw. So I found the park guy and told him “hey there’s some people in the park cutting down a tree for firewood”. Park guy gets a furious look on his face and says “those damn orientals!!”. I guess he’d already told them they weren’t allowed to do that so he knew who I meant right away but it was surprising to hear “orientals”. ---
**Author:** ![Mean\_Mr.Mustard](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mean_mr.mustard/32/3865_2.png) [@Mean\_Mr.Mustard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mean_Mr.Mustard)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2017, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/incidents-of-overt-racism-in-everyday-life/789382/70 "2017-06-20T22:51:21Z")
Older African American cow-orker to me, in a loud voice and in front of many people (and entirely unprovoked): “Mr. Mustard, you French, ain’t you? French are racists”. mmm ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Crap](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.crap/32/3131_2.png) [@Dr.Crap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Crap)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2017, 1:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/incidents-of-overt-racism-in-everyday-life/789382/71 "2017-06-21T01:10:25Z")
A senior kinda-coworker of mine has a fetish for east Asians. He has said to me on multiple occasions that if he were to marry again for the sixth time he would try to, “Marry an Oriental girl because you come home and they rub your feet and make you dinner…not like this bitch I have now.” He also brings up Oriental massage parlors, the benefits of an Oriental diet and how decent Oriental families are a couple times a month – all with a twinkle in his eyes. I have seen him bow deeply to an elderly Korean woman who offered him a bottle of water on a sweltering day. He came up to me afterwards, smiling from ear to ear, and said, “A nice Oriental gave me this…nice people!” ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2017, 1:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/incidents-of-overt-racism-in-everyday-life/789382/72 "2017-06-21T01:10:58Z")
> [@Orwell](#): > > You really find those two examples to be equivalent? [Historical uses of “jungle music” as a racist term](https://books.google.com/books?id=4pXsV06JjY8C&pg=PA42&lpg=PA42&dq=jungle+music+racist&source=bl&ots=njNpzkwFgG&sig=pR18Zx_AgEuolilP_vfbDowm7lM&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwj8nYOd4M3UAhWq5YMKHQWWDzEQ6AEIUzAJ#v=onepage&q=jungle%20music%20racist&f=false). The effort people go into in order to deny racism in America is astonishing and disheartening. ---
**Author:** ![buddha\_david](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ee7513/32.png) [@buddha\_david](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/buddha_david)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2017, 1:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/incidents-of-overt-racism-in-everyday-life/789382/73 "2017-06-21T01:43:57Z")
Not precisely racist, but this should count. Today, my dental hygenist commented on my [Arch Enemy](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arch_Enemy) t-shirt. I told her they are a death metal band with a female lead singer, which is very unusual for heavy metal. She said: “She must be a dyke, then.” Me: “Umm…I don’t think so, but I suppose it’s possible…” [FTR, I did do some Internet searching and as far as I can determine, Angela Gossow & Alissa White-Gluz are both straight.] ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2017, 3:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/incidents-of-overt-racism-in-everyday-life/789382/74 "2017-06-21T03:43:05Z")
Overt: Several years ago, near Boston, someone yelled, “Go back to China!” at my aunt, cousins and I. Not so overt, in fact perhaps not even technically racist: Several years before that, a college RA looked at my messy dorm room and commented that he was disappointed, since he expected that, given my racial background, that I’d be a tidier or more orderly person. Nope, I’m a slob. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2017, 12:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/incidents-of-overt-racism-in-everyday-life/789382/75 "2017-06-21T12:49:41Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > Overt: Several years ago, near Boston, someone yelled, “Go back to China!” at my aunt, cousins and I. Lemme see if I can do this right: Why are you so convinced that’s racism? Maybe you looked exactly like the shouter’s best friend, who happens to live in China, and he’d organized a special surprise party for that friend back home, and he was excited for his friend to get to go to the party! It sure must be exhausting to hunt for racism everywhere! How was that? ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2017, 1:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/incidents-of-overt-racism-in-everyday-life/789382/76 "2017-06-21T13:32:58Z")
> [@Nawth\_Chucka](#): > > His intent is immaterial, it is racist to implicitly compare black to jungle. It would probably be too much to ask from him to expect him to say “veldt music.” ---
**Author:** ![Machine\_Elf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/82dd89/32.png) [@Machine\_Elf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machine_Elf)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2017, 1:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/incidents-of-overt-racism-in-everyday-life/789382/77 "2017-06-21T13:47:55Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > Not so overt, in fact perhaps not even technically racist: Several years before that, a college RA looked at my messy dorm room and commented that he was disappointed, since he expected that, given my racial background, that I’d be a tidier or more orderly person. Nope, I’m a slob. 🙂 From The Onion: [Asian-Americans Defying Traditional Stereotypes](http://www.theonion.com/article/asian-americans-defying-traditional-stereotypes-1046) 😃 > [@The Onion](#): > > When Dith Trang and Rodney Kim get together after school, academics are the furthest thing from their minds. > > Described by friends as “shiftless and dumb,” Lin Bu is one of a growing number of Asian-Americans helping to dispel the myth of the hardworking, motivated Easterner. > > Instead, the two ninth-graders go to Trang’s house to listen to rap music, eat Doritos and get high. > > “Don’t make assumptions about us just because we’re Asian,” says the bespectacled Trang, passing his friend a joint. “Not all of us care about college.” ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2017, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/incidents-of-overt-racism-in-everyday-life/789382/78 "2017-06-21T23:10:09Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Lemme see if I can do this right: > > Why are you so convinced that’s racism? Maybe you looked exactly like the shouter’s best friend, who happens to live in China, and he’d organized a special surprise party for that friend back home, and he was excited for his friend to get to go to the party! It sure must be exhausting to hunt for racism everywhere! > > How was that? Perfect. The problem I think with a lot of this is people want to contest isolated incidents without any real sense of the sheer magnitude of such incidents that many people of color encounter. The intent of any given incident is not as important as the fact that the target is tired of experiencing this shit at a rate that could not possibly be accidental. (Obviously “Go back to China!” Is in no way ambiguous to reasonable people.) ---
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2017, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/incidents-of-overt-racism-in-everyday-life/789382/79 "2017-06-21T23:14:12Z")
But once you coin a word to talk about that, it gets sneered at. Can’t win, I swear. I’ve only had one overt racist thing happen to me, but the person in question clearly wasn’t in her right mind. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2017, 1:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/incidents-of-overt-racism-in-everyday-life/789382/80 "2017-06-22T01:57:35Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Lemme see if I can do this right: > > Why are you so convinced that’s racism? Maybe you looked exactly like the shouter’s best friend, who happens to live in China, and he’d organized a special surprise party for that friend back home, and he was excited for his friend to get to go to the party! It sure must be exhausting to hunt for racism everywhere! > > How was that? Bravo 😃 > [@Machine\_Elf](#): > > From The Onion: [Asian-Americans Defying Traditional Stereotypes](http://www.theonion.com/article/asian-americans-defying-traditional-stereotypes-1046) 😃 Regrettably, this is less and less a joke by the day. I see a small but significant number of Asian-Americans these days, especially college students, who seem to be behaving as trashily as they can, for no purpose other than to be…trashy. :smack: [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/incidents-of-overt-racism-in-everyday-life/789382.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/incidents-of-overt-racism-in-everyday-life/789382.md?page=5)